The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Room Treatments & Tweaks => Topic started by: kajak12 on January 27, 2011, 09:16:51 PM
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what is the best value for your $$$ room treatment?
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Hi M ;D, I posted a thread starter about this already.
In order of price: (Bear in mind this is for a domestic situation as opposed to a dedicated HiFi room, bass being the single hardest area to control).
1. Ceiling insulation encapsulted in a frame with decrotive cover material attached to walls, min 200mm thick.
2. Rock wool as above for better attenuation. ;)
3. MDF 20mm square rods of varying lenghts randomly affixed to a back board of around 1 mtr square so not to be too dominant(but a bugger to dust!) for dispersing mids and highs (no good at bass unless > 500mm long. Use a mirror at the seated listening position to locate when speakers seen in reflection. 8)
4. Thick 'rug' carpet or tapestry hung on walls.
5. Stage quality pleated lined velvet curtains to one quarter of the room at speaker end using 4 inch deep pleats. ;D
6. Home built 'bass traps' - lots of info about how to build on web placed as min in 2 corners behind speakers.
7. Thick natural fibre (wool?) carpet.
8. Large absorbent couch with large cusions.
9. change your speakers for those that are designed to work in the room volume. :-* :-*
10.Digital equalisation. :o
First you'd need to work out what frequencies are being troublesome, usually they are around 40 to 200 hz in the bass and 2 to 5k in the top. Once established you can then set to work attempting to change the room's balance. Forget 'acoustic foam' it looks horrible and only affects the mid and top, it's also overpriced by around 20 times it's true worth.
Just my 2p's worth
V
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Bang for buck, it's hard to beat foam! It's not ideal, but you can easily get it cheap or free. Cheaper if you buy it as a foam mattress, a great size for a bass trap (single mattress).
I'm a bit of a fan of DIY room treatments. A lot of the stuff you buy isn't pretty, and often their idea of aesthetics is offering a choice of colours like green or orange!
One of the most useful materials for getting serious is rigid fibreglass insulation. It's quite dense and more solid than insulation you would use in a house. Great for bass traps, or absorption.
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Hello Paul
So how much can you purchase a foam mattress for?
Clarks rubber sell these locally and they are not cheap at all.
V
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I'm a bit of a fan of DIY room treatments. A lot of the stuff you buy isn't pretty, and often their idea of aesthetics is offering a choice of colours like green or orange!
One of the most useful materials for getting serious is rigid fibreglass insulation. It's quite dense and more solid than insulation you would use in a house. Great for bass traps, or absorption.
Hey Paul, any chance we can see some pics of your DIY room treatments?
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Bang for buck, it's hard to beat foam! It's not ideal, but you can easily get it cheap or free. Cheaper if you buy it as a foam mattress, a great size for a bass trap (single mattress).
I'm a bit of a fan of DIY room treatments. A lot of the stuff you buy isn't pretty, and often their idea of aesthetics is offering a choice of colours like green or orange!
One of the most useful materials for getting serious is rigid fibreglass insulation. It's quite dense and more solid than insulation you would use in a house. Great for bass traps, or absorption.
FOAM is in my view (SNA) is only good over a narrowish band of mid frequencies. It sucks big time in the bass being ineffective and looks bad when dirt gets trapped in it. There are so many better alternatives. Clarks rubber is not a cheap place for most things and those mattresses are around 30 dollars a throw from memory. These will be ineffective as bass traps but they make relaxing to music good in the prone position!
V
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Polymax Absorb XHD 100mm is pretty good value. A pack (4 sheets) is around $450 for 1200mm x 2400mm x 100mm
This comes in black or white.
The white stuff looks like this
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e111/abbeystump/024.jpg)
You can increase the low end abortion efficiency by adding an air gap. See the megasorber example below
(http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37354&d=1319798541)
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FOAM is in my view (SNA) is only good over a narrowish band of mid frequencies. It sucks big time in the bass being ineffective and looks bad when dirt gets trapped in it. There are so many better alternatives. Clarks rubber is not a cheap place for most things and those mattresses are around 30 dollars a throw from memory. These will be ineffective as bass traps but they make relaxing to music good in the prone position!
V
Hey V, The challenge with room treatments is it can be a bit of trial and error on what works, applied with some understanding of basic principles. Eg: with bass, what doesn't get absorbed, gets reflected. There is usually always some level of absorption, and some level of reflection to still manage. How much is absorbed, which freq's are absorbed, what happens to the rest? What's going on with the bass that isn't absorbed, how is it being reflected? Can the reflections be diffracted? Does the diffraction measures always help? Measurements can really help to understand all of this. But i reckon it takes a fair amount of time to understand what we're actually doing. It's interesting to watch people speak about applying various forms of room treatments, speak of the challenges they're having with room effects and nulls, without being willing to share before/after room sweeps. Often unwilling to take their treatments down, despite ongoing challenges.
I do plan to get a professional in, when I'm settled in my next place. I'm not going to bother with the trial and error approach, I don't have the time to spend experimenting.
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You have no choice but to trial and error, take measurements, wash and repeat. It is all part of the process. I look forward to reviewing your before and after frequency and time domain plots as it will be of use to the rest of the community.
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Since you've already done it, and since you say it'll serve the community, It would be great to see your plots and hear about the logic and understandings you've applied in your problematic room. Walk the talk, and contribute something of value.
I definitely have a choice, and can avoid my own personal trial and error. Getting in a professional will (for me) accelerate the process of measuring what is happening, and applying known treatments to deal with the response of the room (that is yet to be built).
Fluffing around and experiementing with mattresses and other types of wall lining, where I don't know the true absorption properties - is not a process I will be embarking on. It's always interesting to read other peoples experiences though.
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Oz , i think you hit the nail on the head , the sheer complexity involved in using room treatments effectively is a big stumbling block.
Getting a proffesional to do it for you is a very sensible route imo.
If I had my own house and the money to pay a professional acoustician that's a road I would be happy to travel.
That being said I have just downloaded the lastest version of REW and the cal file for my Radioshack spl meter and am looking forward to having a bit of a play.
G
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Since you've already done it, and since you say it'll serve the community, It would be great to see your plots and hear about the logic and understandings you've applied in your problematic room. Walk the talk, and contribute something of value.
I definitely have a choice, and can avoid my own personal trial and error. Getting in a professional will (for me) accelerate the process of measuring what is happening, and applying known treatments to deal with the response of the room (that is yet to be built).
Fluffing around and experiementing with mattresses and other types of wall lining, where I don't know the true absorption properties - is not a process I will be embarking on. It's always interesting to read other peoples experiences though.
Your animosity is showing ;) (I'm sensing your negativity).
I haven't done it yet, so I do not know what you are talking about? Hopefully you are not referring to your claim that my curtains are absorbing all of my bass! I'm current in the process of buying all the required bits and pieces to DIY.
Sure it would be adventagious to get a professional to do it for you but in the end it is going to cost you a premium. We all make our own cost vs. benefit decisions. I personally want to walk this journey myself rather than let someone do it for me. I want to learn through doing. Each to their own though.
I'll post up my before and after measurements, I look forward to seeing yours.
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Megasorber is almost double the price of the Polymax XHD but it has it's advantages.
http://www.megasorber.com/
It has a facing that means it doesn't really need a material to cover it. Well, not in all cases as it gives you the option to keep it raw.
Harver (the owner) has also done a lot of scientific testing to prove the worth of his product. At least you can review the datasheets to see if it will fulfil your requirements.
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Tontine accoustisorb 3 is another alternative. A little more expensive than the Polymax XHD.
http://www.soundblock.com.au/pdf/tontine_accoustisorb_3.pdf
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I haven't done it yet, so I do not know what you are talking about? Hopefully you are not referring to your claim that my curtains are absorbing all of my bass!
Ahhh yes, the curtain discussion. At that time you assured everyone reading your thread that you had in fact measured your room with and without curtains, and that there was no difference, you still had the suckouts.
So now you're telling me you havent measured the room (before/after). Hmmm, and you hung the curtains without checking what they are doing? Are you assuming they're only diffracting the high freq reflections? What is the assumption in hanging them?
If you think heavy curtains dont affect bass in *any* way, I reckon you might be surprised (as I said before). I'd expect them to improve things, they should, but it depends. They will deaden the bass reflections to some degree. But lets say that the material you're using lets through some frequencies like they werent there, and had an absorbing effect on other freq's. You really dont know what they are doing, until you measure it up.
I'm current in the process of buying all the required bits and pieces to DIY.
Hang on, you've posted freq response scans from REW on your room. What else do you need to get?
I'll post up my before and after measurements, I look forward to seeing yours.
I look forward to seeing them. Might be a awhile for me, I'm still tweaking house designs, trying to convince the missus that higher ceilings in my audio room are mandatory.
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lol, ok then ;) You can never admit you are dead wrong can you?
I currently have corner foam bass traps (not very effective) and curtains, that is it. I'm in the process of substantial amounts of broadband absorbers. Give me some time to install them before I can measure their effectiveness ;) I won't hide my findings. If they don't work, they don't work. It is just some lost money but at least I will have learn't something. I can live with that.
Ozmillsy, no more dancing around, do you believe my curtains are absorbing enough bass to make a difference? Answering, maybe is a cop out. Either you believe it is or it isn't.
I have measured the subs in my room before the curtains and after. I don't save every measurement I take, generally I just look at the graphs on the screen and work with that at the time.
I still have not seen you take a real measurement in your room.
Remember when you posted this.... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/HT%20Pics/Xmen_Lchannel.jpg
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/HT%20Pics/Xmen_Lchannel.jpg)
I questioned it in a friendly method and you attacked me. You then learned that you were wrong but there was no apology forth coming from you.......
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=86392&view=findpost&p=1505837
Come on mate, be a bit kinder.
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Ozmillsy, no more dancing around, do you believe my curtains are absorbing enough bass to make a difference? Answering, maybe is a cop out. Either you believe it is or it isn't.
I asked you if you had measured the room without the curtains, and you got the sh!ts and resented the question - then proceeded to attack me over it.
How the hell would I know what YOUR curtains doing? Sure curtains can make a difference.
I have measured the subs in my room before the curtains and after.
so you can take measurements, or you can't take measurements. Which is it?
That's a good looking graph if you ask me. :)
I still have not seen you take a real measurement in your room.
Remember when you posted this.... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/HT%20Pics/Xmen_Lchannel.jpg
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/HT%20Pics/Xmen_Lchannel.jpg)
I questioned it in a friendly method and you attacked me. You then learned that you were wrong but there was no apology forth coming from you.......
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=86392&view=findpost&p=1505837
Come on mate, be a bit kinder.
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Comprehension..... come on man..... think this stuff through.
so you can take measurements, or you can't take measurements. Which is it?
Did I not just explain that? I take measurements all the time. I don't always save the graphs. Is that hard to comprehend?
That's a good looking graph if you ask me. :)
Yeah, it does, if it was in any way a realistic measurement. Instead it is a false reading due to incorrect set up / measurement. You still can not admit you were wrong. Sigh.
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Did I not just explain that? I take measurements all the time. I don't always save the graphs. Is that hard to comprehend?
I can sense your animosity, take a chill pill.
Yeah, it does, if it was in any way a realistic measurement. Instead it is a false reading due to incorrect set up / measurement. You still can not admit you were wrong. Sigh.
A smoothed response graph is not an invalid result.
Great graph, and I have under estimated how good the room was that I was in. I miss it. But that's ok, the next place will be even better.
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Your taking the Mickey right ? The graph is wrong. That graph is impossible from the listening position (raw). Why can't you just admit you are wrong.
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Maybe one day i will measure my room and post graphs/data for all to see,i think treblid or tuyen have the equipment to do such measurements
you never know dritz i might just need some room treatment.
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It is good that you are open to the possibility kajak. If you are serious I'm more than willing to lend you my thoughts on the graphs and how you might be able to tackle any issues that are identified. I'm certainly no expert but I'll try my best to help or point you in the right direction to find the answers.
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It is good that you are open to the possibility kajak. If you are serious I'm more than willing to lend you my thoughts on the graphs and how you might be able to tackle any issues that are identified. I'm certainly no expert but I'll try my best to help or point you in the right direction to find the answers.
No probs dritz i will try if it sounds like sh!t then no room treatments at kajak's house besides a blanket on a lcd tv hung on the wall.
I am serious both me and flemo would like to experiment.
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Your taking the Mickey right ? The graph is wrong. That graph is impossible from the listening position (raw). Why can't you just admit you are wrong.
Catch up Drizt. I said smoothed, not raw.
In the old thread, I admit that I was wrong about it being a raw graph. The info has been smoothed.
Smoothed graphs are perfectly valid for more easily seeing frequency response anomalies, As raw graphs are too busy.
Not taking the Mickey at all.
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That graph isn't even possible smoothed from the listening position. I'm sorry mate but you need to start taking advice from people. You can't always be right mate, learn when to accept help from people. You need to set up your measurement rig properly. Those measurements are incorrect, impossible from the listening position. Your speakers would not measure like that even in a perfect aenochoic room
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That graph isn't even possible smoothed from the listening position. I'm sorry mate but you need to start taking advice from people. You can't always be right mate, learn when to accept help from people. You need to set up your measurement rig properly. Those measurements are incorrect, impossible from the listening position. Your speakers would not measure like that even in a perfect aenochoic room
No worries.
The spl meter used in that particular case could be half the reason. And it's true that different gear produced different results. That thread was a good lesson that if you rely on measurements alone, you can be easily fooled into thinking things are good/bad by taking the measurements as gospel.
Thanks for sharing that old thread. Your motives for sharing it are interesting (childish attempt to discredit, I can pull up a thousand in return if I wanted to play games (i dont)). But we can all learn from it.
I stand by the original comment. It's a good looking graph. :) whether it's accurate is another thing.
You seem to think I don't listen. May I say, it would help if you took your own device at times. Curtains can effect bass in unexpected ways, to different degrees, depending on the material used.
If i were you, and i had such major room nodes/suckouts, I'd be seeking the advise of a professional.
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That is a very mature edit on your behalf mate. ;)
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Curtains can effect bass in unexpected ways, to different degrees, depending on the material used.
lol, go on, show me any kind of evidence to support this claim. Oh, that is right, you can't ;)
If i were you, and i had such major room nodes/suckouts, I'd be seeking the advise of a professional.
I have spoken to a few experts on this matter and they have concurred with my analysis thus far. Room treatments are required (broadband that can be as effect as possible in the lower bass regions). What more can they actually tell me?
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I have spoken to a few experts on this matter and they have concurred with my analysis thus far. Room treatments are required (broadband that can be as effect as possible in the lower bass regions). What more can they actually tell me?
Tell you? I'd be paying them to treat the room. Might hit the wallet harder, than doing it yourself.
Whatever the charge, it's got to be worth it, to know it's been treated by a professional.
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Interesting that a DIY guy would recommend a professional to do the job. Room treatments are something I think anyone can / should do. Where as electronics is something I feel a professional should do. Each to their own.
Tell you? I'd be paying them to treat the room. Might hit the wallet harder, than doing it yourself.
Whatever the charge, it's got to be worth it, to know it's been treated by a professional.
That is fair enough. Everyone can make their own choices on how they want to do it.
I'm DIY and I'm more than happy to give it a go. If it doesn't work out then I will have learnt something. I'm ok with that. Time will tell how successful I have been.
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Maybe one day i will measure my room and post graphs/data for all to see,i think treblid or tuyen have the equipment to do such measurements
you never know dritz i might just need some room treatment.
Mine is just the Behringer ECM8000 (uncalibrated) and the matching mixer... If you want I can bring it down next time, I'm not sure what Tuyen has but I'm sure it's better :p...
You'd also need a fairly good low latency audio card, and if possible a good quality notebook.
Happy tweaking... I'd love to see how you can apply your current approach to audio with the more traditional frequency weighted tack...
Tell you? I'd be paying them to treat the room. Might hit the wallet harder, than doing it yourself.
Whatever the charge, it's got to be worth it, to know it's been treated by a professional.
:ninja: I have a feeling Drizt can't afford one? :p J/k... Drizt, just get somebody to do it, and you can watch him do and learn (much better than buying a book).. And then you don't have to cut foam or f/g or any other weird materials that will get into your lungs....
That's what money is for, spend... Do it once, do it right.. Will be money well spent.
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That is fair enough. Everyone can make their own choices on how they want to do it.
I'm DIY and I'm more than happy to give it a go. If it doesn't work out then I will have learnt something. I'm ok with that. Time will tell how successful I have been.
How long ago did you get the subs, hang the curtains?
Good luck with it. Will follow it with interest. Look forward to seeing your informative posts/graphs.
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much better than buying a book
Speaking of book, this is a good one and certainly worth buying: http://www.getbettersound.com/
I was initially reluctant to read it but it came out as a surprise because most of my view in setting up an audio system concurred with the author's...and there's still a lot more to learn too from the book. Thanks to gamve who lent me his :)
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How long ago did you get the subs, hang the curtains?
lol you still believe the curtains make a big different in the bass region..
Good luck with it. Will follow it with interest. Look forward to seeing your informative posts/graphs.
Cheers.
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It is pretty ironic that a site dedicated to DIY has so many members trying to tell me not to DIY. :P
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It is pretty ironic that a site dedicated to DIY has so many members trying to tell me not to DIY. :P
My apologies.. DIY ahead... :)
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How long ago did you get the subs, hang the curtains?
lol you still believe the curtains make a big different in the bass region..
big? Can produce Unexpected results.
Aren't we a pair then, because I think it's hilarious that you feel curtains make no difference at all.
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big? Can produce Unexpected results.
Aren't we a pair then, because I think it's hilarious that you feel curtains make no difference at all.
lol. It is funny.
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Cripes ... you guys need to pick ONE forum to argue on. ONE! Arguing on one, then arguing about what you argued about on another ... that's like worrying about the fact that you worried about something. BTW you need to go visit the Monty Python argument clinic!
Didn't see the replies, must have email notifications off ...
Hello Paul
So how much can you purchase a foam mattress for?
Clarks rubber sell these locally and they are not cheap at all.
V
V,
Think of a cartoon picture. Kind of like when Coyote sees road runner and the image of dinner comes up. I'm the guy who sees a couch on the side of the road and thinks "bass trap!" I also get free foam from a friend. It's a bit hard to beat!
Hey Paul, any chance we can see some pics of your DIY room treatments?
It would have to come with a warning ... what you are about to see may offend some viewers! There will be photos, there will also be a wait. I have really ugly prototypes at the moment. The kind that not even a mother could love. I do have a plan in mind and probably next year there will be some photos. My speakers and some of the treatment will be both custom built to fit together. I will have horns built flush into a giant soffit bass trap. Both exist as prototypes right now. So I will have two bass traps, each 1.2m wide and floor to ceiling in the front corners. Yes they are big but they actually stick out into the room less than even an ML1 placed properly (ie not hard up against a wall).
There will be a bulkhead trap over the main seating position (against the rear wall), with downlights in it. In section about 900 x 500. I'll be building a bass trap couch at some point in the corner - yes a couch modified to act better as a bass trap. That will be an interesting challenge. I was hacking apart an old couch that was comfy but dodgy. Part about to go to the tip, then I realised it had useful bits in it. So we have one bulkhead trap, one couch corner trap and two corner bass traps. This is in a dedicated room, red walls, black ceiling, combined home theatre and music room. There will also be some diffusers, and many of those bass traps will have a membrane over them to avoid making the room dead. When you put enough bass trappage in a small room to make the bass behave, you have a dead sounding room. So many of the panels will have a painted MDF layer over them with holes cut - those holes make them act also as a diffuser - look up RPG BAD panel and you'll get an idea. I won't be absorbing first reflection points in this room generally as I've designed the speakers to avoid the need.
Probably a bit hard to imagine all that.
Maybe one day i will measure my room and post graphs/data for all to see,i think treblid or tuyen have the equipment to do such measurements
you never know dritz i might just need some room treatment.
I'm pinching myself right now. Could this be happening? Waiting for Drizt to say power cables do make a difference ............. and for Stevenvalve to say "I feel like doing some blind testing today, who's up for it?!" ... Sorry, couldn't resist.
Just one suggestion for anyone getting pro help. Make sure you know what you want. Those prepared get the most benefit. If you aren't able to articulate what you want to achieve, then it's very difficult for a pro to actually help. They will probably tend to default to their own preferences. So it pays to understand some of the terms. Terms like room modes, shroeder frequency, room gain, precedence effect, pressure vs velocity traps etc. Having a bit of understanding of some basics of room acoustics and different strategies will help you get the best help. If you get a consultant who doesn't ask you questions about what you prefer and already has a list of solutions, then you are getting nothing more than what you could read on the interweb! A smart consultant should be asking you about what you are looking to achieve, then using their tools to get there, not trying to impose a single solution onto every room in the world.
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Just one suggestion for anyone getting pro help. Make sure you know what you want. Those prepared get the most benefit. If you aren't able to articulate what you want to achieve, then it's very difficult for a pro to actually help. They will probably tend to default to their own preferences. So it pays to understand some of the terms. Terms like room modes, shroeder frequency, room gain, precedence effect, pressure vs velocity traps etc. Having a bit of understanding of some basics of room acoustics and different strategies will help you get the best help. If you get a consultant who doesn't ask you questions about what you prefer and already has a list of solutions, then you are getting nothing more than what you could read on the interweb! A smart consultant should be asking you about what you are looking to achieve, then using their tools to get there, not trying to impose a single solution onto every room in the world.
I respectfully disagree Paul.
You do not need to know the technical terms to know what you want to achieve sonically. If you knew all of the technical aspects you would not need a professional to help, IMHO.
For example.
Customer says to professional: My system is (a)bass heavy, (b)thin in the midrange and (c)tizzy in the top end and I do not (d) want a room that sounds dynamically constrained and/or dead.
Professional says: Well to tackle issue a I would sugest 1, 2 or 3. This will impact the look of your room in this manner and cost $X. What solution is agreeable for you?... to tackle b, c & d .... etc.
I think the professional should be able to interpret the audible problems the customer has identified and be able to suggest many different solutions to those problems.
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http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/41010-Finally!-a-dedicated-listening-room?p=614646#post614646
@paul or dritz any suggestions for this setup
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Because it is so small I would assume you would want it to sound like a larger room. Absorption would do the trick (assumptions I know).
Really you would need to experiment. I'm no expert though.
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IMHO, that room is only suitable for headphone hi-fi. ???
I'm not knocking the guys system, I am just confused what his definition of imaging would be because it appears IMO to be physically impossible if our definitions of imaging were the same? :o
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If I hadn't been to Bryan's I would have said that's impossible for the speakers to work in that room...
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what is the best value for your $$$ room treatment?
I just found this: http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_135&products_id=996
A lot of value for the money although I myself have never tried them, but for the money, can't really go wrong...compared to the overpriced cr@p we are charged here in Australia :P
Still looking for all natural wool material room treatment as recommended by Jim Smith of Get Better Sound....
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Mario that's a tough one because the room is so small. I might go a nearfield setup with little speakers on a desk and just accept the result.
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IMHO, that room is only suitable for headphone hi-fi. ???
His room is bigger and better than mine.. :( My room's width is slightly wider, but not by much:( His room is way deeper.
Jehuty how big is Bryan's room?
Yeah, sometimes I contemplate on switching to headphones myself... :p My room is tiny... :( So frustrating getting speakers as I am constantly fighting with the room or some sort of ghost. :wacko:
I'm not knocking the guys system, I am just confused what his definition of imaging would be because it appears IMO to be physically impossible if our definitions of imaging were the same? :o
Don't really know how to explain it, Imaging can be very interesting and gimmicky... It's more surround sound like and very different. The front stage is no way as expansive or deep as Mario's though. At least mine isn't..
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I'm pretty sure there is a female to blame with those speakers being placed in that room!
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I'm pretty sure there is a female to blame with those speakers being placed in that room!
lol, I felt the slap on the back of my head when I read that comment.
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Jehuty how big is Bryan's room?
Its very tricky getting speakers to work well in a really tiny space (4.5m x 6m). Luckilly i have very high ceilings and really solid double brick and sand walls.
It's a decent size room for standmounts or small floorstanders but for horns....he has simply done a maginificent job :)
The key is to play around and never give up treblid!
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4.5x6 is tiny?! ... Maybe for horns ... my room is 4.65 x 3.9 and that's what I call small, but still workable. There is no substitute for a big room though, I'd love to have 8 x 12m but we have to work with what we have. To deal with my small room, I'm treating the buggery out of it. The speakers will go into corners - normally a disaster but I'm designing them to work there, and the speakers will be flush in a big bass trap. So they don't sound like a conventional speaker shoved up against a wall or into a corner, which is usually a sonic disaster. My system would not work at all done "plug and play" style. My horns are coax and inherent to their design is an ability to listen at much closer range than typical big horns. They are also placed to maximise sound stage width and listening distance. There are many things interacting here that need to be understood to make this stuff work. The horns are also designed to reduce the need for many conventional treatments. In fact they would probably work at their best in a very large room. They would probably also work well for someone with a big and difficult room, live and bright, who doesn't have WAF approval for a treated room.
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The key is to play around and never give up treblid!
I think I will call my room microscopic from now.. :lol: :p
my room is 4.65 x 3.9 and that's what I call small, but still workable.
Why not just get smaller speakers? :p j/k
Anyhoo.. Sorry for the hijack.. Back on topic...
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Because these are big in a way that works in a small room ;)
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If I hadn't been to Bryan's I would have said that's impossible for the speakers to work in that room...
With proacs it wont work very well i know the speakers a friend of mine had them,spent 5 years on his system on and off he doesn't own them anymore thank fcuk.
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Mario that's a tough one because the room is so small. I might go a nearfield setup with little speakers on a desk and just accept the result.
very good answer (Mr.spencer and kajak12 agree)
smaller speakers and a change of electronics will do the trick
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How will smaller speakers help?
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Aaon, small speakers will sit on a desk nearfield style.
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Dare say that isn't going to happen.
But fair enough, that would work.