The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Reel to Reel => Topic started by: ozmillsy on December 21, 2013, 05:45:06 PM
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I hear it time and again that old 7.5" reels are not worth wasting our money on. They're not prohibitively expensive, but the postage costs do drive up the bottom line for us located down under - because the vast majority are in the US.
I've been ignoring the advise, and buying anyway. My experience has been mixed, I've received some crap tapes that sound ordinary from years and years of wear and tear. But equally, I also have some real pearlers. I have enough good tapes now, that my position is, ignore the naysayers ,,,,, if you want to spend your time and money hunting out old tapes, do it. Not all will be good, but not all will be bad.
I find it incredibly rewarding to find a great sounding old tape. It's a real treasure.
For those tapes that have been a good score for me, I'll post about them in here. Disclaimer, if I post about a good tape, it doesnt guarantee that the same title sourced 2nd hand will also be good for you. It really is a lucky dip. These tapes are 50 odd years old, and it all comes down to condition.
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All time classic.
Harry Belafonte - Belafonte at Carnegie Hall.
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Belafonte_Carnegie_front.jpg)
This box shows it's age, they all do.
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Belafonte_Carnegie_rear.jpg)
This is 1 of those great live recordings, and it shines through on this old tape, which has held up rather well. Here's a short 1m sample;
click- Sample.wav (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Belafonte_Carnegie_trk16_sample.wav)
There is about 90mins of brilliance squeezed onto this tape, alot more than most other titles. Great stuff.
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In the 70's, there were a bunch of LP's released of Herbert von Karajan recordings, where they used digital devices to do the recording. I have a few of these, and the LP's sound rather ordinary.
But most of these old 7.5" tapes pre-date the digital era, and judging by the prices some of them sell for on ebay the Karajan tapes are highly sought after. This particular title is common (easy to find), hence didnt set me back too much.
Beethoven - Symphonies No.4 and No.5 - Herbert von Karajan
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Karajan_Beethoven_Sym4and5_front.jpg)
This box was actually in reasonable shape.....
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Karajan_Beethoven_Sym4and5_rear.jpg)
The tape sounds good, the music has great dynamics and emotion.
Click- sample.wav (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/Karajan_Beethoven_Sym5_sample.wav)
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I'm easing into classical music, more and more. I have developed a taste for classical guitar, and have grown very fond of old Julian Bream recordings. When I saw this tape pop up, I snaffled it quick. When I received it, I was pleasantly surprised by it's condition.
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/JulianBream_front.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/JulianBream_rear.jpg)
Looked like it had hardly been played, and sounds very nice and dynamic.
Click- sample.wav (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/JulianBream_sample.wav)
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Placemarker for Getz Gilberto , my best sounding 7.5" tape thus far.
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Placemarker for Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Rodgers and Hart Song Book.
Ella is so effortless yet amazing on this tape. Just wonderful.
Samples and info on request. If I am just talking to myself, I wont bother going to the trouble.
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Placemarker for Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Rodgers and Hart Song Book.
Ella is so effortless yet amazing on this tape. Just wonderful.
Samples and info on request. If I am just talking to myself, I wont bother going to the trouble.
Count me in Oz. I have not heard the belefonte you sent me but I will get to it
Cheers
G
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Count me in Oz. I have not heard the belefonte you sent me but I will get to it
Hey G, just making the posts above is alot of work, with scanning artwork, recording the music, and posting a 30sec sample. I must admit, there has been zero interest in this thread, and I started to question 'why bother' ?
Need to gauge interest, if there is anyone wanting to see further updates in this thread? ???
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Count me in Oz. I have not heard the belefonte you sent me but I will get to it
Hey G, just making the posts above is alot of work, with scanning artwork, recording the music, and posting a 30sec sample. I must admit, there has been zero interest in this thread, and I started to question 'why bother' ?
Need to gauge interest, if there is anyone wanting to see further updates in this thread? ???
Mate if your willing to go through the exercise and find the good tapes in this format then all I can say is good onya. As you said
before there are some goodun's amongst them and these are worth the trouble. I for one will be interested and I encourage others
to support you in this.
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Oz, tried clicking on the links but nada, no action despite waiting a considerable time to allow full download of the sample.
Interested in what you are proposing so that's at least 2 :-[
V
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Try 'right-click' , 'save-as'. Download the sample in full, before playing it.
I'm just posting 30sec samples for people to listen to, to get a feel for the SQ of these 7.5" tapes. But posting samples, does involve a bit of effort.
So if people are listening to these samples, tell me what you think. I'll post more, in due course.
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Yup. that worked just Dandy. Thanks ;D
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I'm just posting 30sec samples for people to listen to, to get a feel for the SQ of these 7.5" tapes.
would you be so kind and do this in 24 Bit high resolution and with the complete show ?
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would you be so kind and do this in 24 Bit high resolution and with the complete show ?
Posting the complete show would violate forum guidelines, and put the owners of the forum at risk of a copyright infringement.
My recordings are originally in DSD format, which I am happy to share 30sec samples of. Any one in particular, that you'd like to hear 1st? Also, I must ask for feedback, positive or negative, either is fine. These are 50 year old tapes, I wont get my nose out of joint with neg feedback.
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apart from the tape hiss (which is not a prob in my eyes as I was a big cassette user growing up) they all sound truly amazing. minimal processing/compression that I can pick up.
love most the beethoven sample by berlin phil :)
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Hi T, great to see you back on the forum mate. Sorry I missed you on your last trip to the East. Bloody fires !
Yeah, the tape hiss is obvious at the start and during quiet passages. But I don't find it offensive, and tend to forget all about it when the music is running.
Yes, I really like that Beethoven tape, it's quite dynamic. I get lost in the music, when I listen to it from beginning to end. That particular title was released in a box set of Beethoven works conducted by Karajan, and I narrowly missed getting the boxset recently. I'll have to wait for the next one to pop up.
Checkout the sale price :D, and the shipping costs. :o
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111265538617?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/111265538617?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
For 5 x tapes, I find that price (including postage) reasonable. But the risk is, they don't all sound good. High levels of wow/flutter is a common problem on old tapes that have been heavily used. So it's a real gamble. Would be soo much easier if we lived in the US, just go crazy buying all that get listed.
I've spent a lot of money shipping these old tapes in. I'd hate to add it up. :eek But there is a fair amount of good. I'll post my Getz Gilberto sample next, when I get a chance.
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thanks for the welcoming back mate. i did miss you guys.
wow, such good pricing for tapes that have so much potential. agreed shipping fees do suck. wrong side of the planet sometimes!
look forward to hearing the getz grab
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Another all time classic. I splurged on this tape, because it is 1 of my personal favourites. I was pleasantly surprised when I received it, box in good nick, and tape looks like it has barely ever been played.
This title has had many audiophile releases, the original recording tends to shine through in any format. This tape sounds slightly different to my other versions of it, not in a bad way, just different. I really enjoy it. It's in such good condition, to preserve the tape, I'll be making a 15ips dub, and playing that.
Getz Gilberto
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GG5front.jpg)
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GG5rear.jpg)
Short sample (right-click, save-as): click- Sample.wav (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GG5sample.wav)
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Wow 30 seconds and it has me in that 'place' in my mind where all else but pleasure is gone, I like it. Nice find and great idea dubbing it to another reel.
V
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Old tapes in this condition are a rare find, so I want to protect it. It's a short'ish album, so the whole thing fits onto 1 x 2500ft tape (@ 15"), which is nice. :)
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The next tape was a real lucky dip. I had no idea what I was getting. I had bought a couple of tapes off an Ebay seller, and whacked a couple more in the order to make shipping somewhat more palatable. I like spanish guitar, so, why not.
When I received it, I balked at it big time (verging on spewing). The box looked like it had been kicked around from pillar to post, for years. The end of the tape was brittle and fragile, flaking away easily. I wondered if I should even attempt to play it??
But,,,, to my amazement, it sounded perfectly fine. Maybe slightly more hiss than normal, but the music,,,,,, if you like flamenco guitar, what a tape!
Sabicas - Guitars of Passion
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GuitarsofPassion_front.jpg)
So, I go trawling the net to find out more. This title does not rate a mention anywhere. I found a listing on Amazon, with zero info. Look,,,,
http://www.amazon.com/Sabicas-Guitars-Passion-Cuban-Music/dp/B001TJZM7W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1393240737&sr=1-2&keywords=sabicas+passion (http://www.amazon.com/Sabicas-Guitars-Passion-Cuban-Music/dp/B001TJZM7W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1393240737&sr=1-2&keywords=sabicas+passion)
This title is not listed in the discography for Sabicas. Interesting read though, he was a prodigy,,,,,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabicas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabicas)
Maybe this title was never considered his best, maybe it just dithered away in among a whole bunch of other Sabicas albums? I dunno, this is the first Sabicas album I have listened to, and it blew me away, taking me to another place. What speed and control, just unbelievable.
In honour of Sabicas, I give you a short track in full off this little known album (right-click, save-as): Click- sample.wav (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GuitarsofPassion06.wav)
Now,,,, to name and shame a former owner. Mr Ron Kerner. What tool writes his name, not only on the box, but also on the tape label itself ?!?! Shame, shame, shame,,,,,, you are an !diot Ron !!!
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/R2R/7.5/GuitarsofPassion_rear.jpg)
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thanks again Oz.
I can really hear the unaltered purity in these recordings, even through my computer with some decent headphones.
Makes me wonder, do you find they lose much in quality when you replay these ripped file through your system?
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Yes, these old 7.5ips tapes definitely sound better directly from the tape machine. The order of sonic quality is,,,,,
1) 4track 7.5ips tape played native from tape machine into pre or power
2) Played from dub tape (record 4track 7.5ips tape to 2track 15ips tape, then use the latter for regular playback)
3) Played from CD (record 4track 7.5ips tape to Korg(dsd) and then convert to 16bit)
4) Played from DSD dac (record 4track 7.5ips tape to Korg(dsd) and then play native DSD files)
The reason why #3 sounds better than #4 is my 16bit hardware sh!ts all over my DSD hardware, which is a recurring theme with various dac comparisons we have done. Hi-res software doesn't translate to better sound, it is all hardware dependent (in my opinion).
The Getz Gilberto tape sounds so good, I'm scared to play it. So will be using a dub tape. But I don't do that for most 7.5ips tapes, as the blank tapes are so expensive, I record and play them digitally for everyday playback.
Bottom line, I don't feel robbed listening to the digital files, they still sound good on the Killerdac (the above is just different degrees of goodness :D ).
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I found the same thing, the tape to digital then through the killer dac sounds great, just shows that digital if you feed it great material, cuts it.
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Cheers oz. That's good to know!
I would say I have some similar experience with a few vinyl rips I've downloaded compared to the cd rips as well.
Tis a real pity most of the modern produced music I really enjoy is compressed to hell. lol
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I would say I have some similar experience with a few vinyl rips I've downloaded compared to the cd rips as well.
Tis a real pity most of the modern produced music I really enjoy is compressed to hell. lol
Yeah [sighs], and you know how passionate I am on the subject of compressed music. You should hear my vinyl rips of Fever Ray or Angus & Julia Stone, compared to their CD releases. Chalk and cheese.
But, that's a completely different topic. These old tapes are not as dynamic as the Yarlung 15ips master tapes. Yarlung tapes are just on another planet. But the 7.5ips tapes can and do sound nice, when they are in good condition. I also find the tape hiss to be far more noticeable listening on headphones.
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Now,,,, to name and shame a former owner. Mr Ron Kerner. What tool writes his name, not only on the box, but also on the tape label itself ?!?! Shame, shame, shame,,,,,, you are an !diot Ron !!!
[/font]
Actually I can see a good reason for this if he is active in any GTG's as at the end of the night trying to locate all your CD's / Tapes, whatever is not an easy task!
A more discrete label would probably be in keeping but who ever buys music with a mind to selling it in the first place???? The tapes were probably part of a deceased estate sale........................who know's.
Anyway I am very pleased that the great recordings have found their way into the hands of a forum member, least this way we know they will not be consigned to the dumpster like so many 'old technologies' have been.
Thumbs up Oz[/font]
V
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Nah, it's sacriledge to write your name all over it in big black marker. Didn't they have post-it notes back in the 50's ? haha :P [jk]
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You should hear my vinyl rips of Fever Ray or Angus & Julia Stone, compared to their CD releases. Chalk and cheese.
Hi Oz,
Where did you get the vinyl rip of Angus & Julia Stone? I would like to get them if possible.
Thanks,
William
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Where did you get the vinyl rip of Angus & Julia Stone? I would like to get them if possible.
I ripped it myself. A very kind SNA member (whatmore) loaned me his very rare LP of "Down the Way" and I recorded it with my Korg, then compared it to my CD. Dramatically different. PM me.
I don't trust vinyl rips from random internet sources. I only trust my own, and people I know.
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Oz,
have you got enough dropbox room to upload some of your tape rips?
Please don't flac them. DSD proffered or WAV is good good good.
We should swap some vinyl rips. I have quite a catalogue coming along.
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I ripped it myself. A very kind SNA member (whatmore) loaned me his very rare LP of "Down the Way" and I recorded it with my Korg, then compared it to my CD. Dramatically different. PM me.
I don't trust vinyl rips from random internet sources. I only trust my own, and people I know.
Oz's rip of "Down the Way" sounds very good. Ask him nicely and he may make you one :D
Oz, make sure you bring some sample CD's to Canberra GTG.
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We should swap some vinyl rips. I have quite a catalogue coming along.
Always happy to trade and share our hard work. Your vinyl rips are great. Lets chat over email.
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I ripped it myself. A very kind SNA member (whatmore) loaned me his very rare LP of "Down the Way" and I recorded it with my Korg, then compared it to my CD. Dramatically different. PM me.
I don't trust vinyl rips from random internet sources. I only trust my own, and people I know.
PM sent :)
That album is very good! I really like it such as I was thinking about getting a TT then hunt for the vinyl, long shot I know but that particular album is really worth the effort.
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Thought it best to split out the conversation into a new thread. It's a good topic to discuss, and thought it deserved it's own thread.
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,2593.0.html (http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,2593.0.html)
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This album sounds excellent on 7 1/2 ips tape. I also have it on vinyl (Chess first pressing) and it's hard to split them.
The vinyl does sound a little fuller, but that may be down to my turntable running through my tubed phono pre amp, and the reel passing through a passive switch box attached to my mono blocks.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/452/MI0001452777.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Another excellent 7 1/2 ips reel is this one:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/592/MI0001592250.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
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Nice, yes its so system dependent, that will most likely change as you improve your tape output. Our own Paul baker, makes a great all valve tape output, with valve rectifier, (the same as I use) its not expensive, money is not his motivation. Then you will notice a big change for the better via the tape.
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This album sounds excellent on 7 1/2 ips tape. I also have it on vinyl (Chess first pressing) and it's hard to split them.
The vinyl does sound a little fuller, but that may be down to my turntable running through my tubed phono pre amp, and the reel passing through a passive switch box attached to my mono blocks.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/452/MI0001452777.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Another excellent 7 1/2 ips reel is this one:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/592/MI0001592250.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Welcome Chris,
Nice to see you here. Now get reading ;D
Cheers
Graham
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This album sounds excellent on 7 1/2 ips tape. I also have it on vinyl (Chess first pressing) and it's hard to split them.
The vinyl does sound a little fuller, but that may be down to my turntable running through my tubed phono pre amp, and the reel passing through a passive switch box attached to my mono blocks.
Thanks for sharing, I'll keep an eye out for them. Welcome. :)
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Hi guys
Oz thanks for this thread, it's great.
Is anyone bringing an R2R machine to the GTG?
Would love to hear some of these.
Cheers