The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Room Treatments & Tweaks => Topic started by: Tuyen on March 30, 2014, 11:43:22 AM
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Interesting device. I heard the previous model RR-77 on a system recently and I could hear improvements in terms of 'ease' and better 'flow' in the music. Soundstage and imaging becomes just that bit more palpable. Was very small music room.
In my opinion, worthwhile for audiophiles who already have the important stuff 'sorted' (ie. speakers, sources, amps, cables) in their system and enjoy critically listening to music on their system. What I mean is that it won't change a excellent sounding system to 'magical' status, but it did give a few % improvements to my ears, which lets face it, for us anal audiophiles, often means a lot! Either way, I reckon some here may be pleasantly surprised! ;D
Some links of interest:
http://www.stereotimes.com/acc091812.shtml (http://www.stereotimes.com/acc091812.shtml)
http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/clash-of-titans-acoustic-revive-rr-777.html (http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/clash-of-titans-acoustic-revive-rr-777.html)
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive/rr77.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive/rr77.html)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue68/acoustic_revive_chronicles.htm (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue68/acoustic_revive_chronicles.htm)
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Interesting device. I heard the previous model RR-77 on a system recently and I could hear improvements in terms of 'ease' and better 'flow' in the music. Soundstage and imaging becomes just that bit more palpable. Was very small music room.
Treblid = Myrantz (i.e. troublemaker trying to get himself banned on other forums, couldn't figure out how to name change here)..
Not sure if I can hear the difference myself TBH (it's not very obvious to me at all, I only kept it and use it coz my dad gave me this to get the 777 for himself).
If anything I feel it sorta takes the "edge" slightly off my "edgy" system? And I didn't hear that per se, I actually felt it instead (and this is not 100% reliable)... Does it kind of describe what you're hearing?
According to my dad the 777 is more noticeable/effective...
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Hi TJ,
Indeed it is the 'feeling' I get. Not actual tonal change I don't believe.
Wouldn't call your system edgy though. Quite nice. Images impressively.
Might look at one of these units after I get the rest of my system sorted. ;D
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Hi TJ,
Indeed it is the 'feeling' I get. Not actual tonal change I don't believe.
So it's not just me.. Every one I tried this with can't hear it, they just sorta feel it (and some like it, some not - I'm still on the fence myself TBH).. It's really weird and I have no idea if it's placebo or not, but personally I don't mind if it's really placebo :p
Wouldn't call your system edgy though. Quite nice. Images impressively.
Thanks :D. Still room for improvement, e.g. I2S, but as you can guess I'm honestly scared to do it :(..
Might look at one of these units after I get the rest of my system sorted. ;D
From what I was told they are actually very hard to buy/source. And honestly very expensive for what it is... There's a DIY option, maybe you want to try that? I couldn't find the link+instructions but I read it before.
This device is a straight plug in replacement technique for the "5c audio tweak" which is very common in Singapore... One reason why folks in Singapore snap them up I guess. If you are interested and ready I'd check with my dad and see if he can get a good price...
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I can help you with setting up the I2S connection when you are ready. Bit of hassle switching between I2S and back to SPDIF for your 2 sources though.
Re the RR-777, quite easily available from an ebay search.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=acoustic+revive+rr-777&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3Dacoustic%2Brevive%2Brr-777%26_arr%3D1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=acoustic+revive+rr-777&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3Dacoustic%2Brevive%2Brr-777%26_arr%3D1)
Looking at around $450AU with free postage from Japan. Not really that bad IMO!
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Nice find! Didn't know about that :D .
Will definitely need your help, in time... I'm still researching on what to do and what not for now :P
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:o OMG, what is the wavelength again at 7.5 c/s. Now look at the solder trace within the cube and tell me if this is matched wavelength wise (Answers on the back of a hundred dollar bill to chez V) IS this just another example of how to fleese people of their hard earned? If so I have an electronic clock which when placed in your listening space creates a huge vacuum that transports the listener to another time and space, it's only 199.99 dollars and comes direct to you from China to save postage! Don't forget you have to set the scene by having consumed at least 6 beers or so, wear odd socks and have one foot on the dog and the other carefully aligned with your left speaker, it won't work with out the aforesaid :P Whilst we are at it, I was beach coming the other day and found some really pretty stones which when place strategically on your amp, speakers and head improves the listening experience 3 fold. :-*
Welcome to be proved wrong as always but FFS 5 paychecks reviewer...........LMAO des not even cover it
V
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Haha! Magic happens! One must believe..
Gotta love this hobby don't ya V :P
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Fair to add that over 90%(?) of discussions on this forum relating to hardware tweaks are often completely subjective and also umeasurable?
Thus making those shakti tuning stones not that ridiculous in my eyes ;D
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Thoughts?
Where does one draw the line between acceptable and ridiculous??
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we all have our own line in the sand. And it is different for each of us.
so the trite answer is 'ask yourself'.
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Thoughts?
Where does one draw the line between acceptable and ridiculous??
The way I decide is I accept it if it does anything positive (be it real or otherwise), i.e. I always put myself first.
Of coz being free it really makes that easier for me. If I have to pay for it TBH I will never buy it, coz I still have other issues I have to tackle, e.g. that rack shelf imaging issue, and etc.
Next time when we do a GTG at your place I can bring that along and you can see if it works or not?
At the end of the day, it's your money, so your call...
This device is weird in the sense it's just a feeling...
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DIY - http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/ (http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/)
http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140 (http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140)
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DIY - http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/ (http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/)
http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140 (http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140)
I have some spare duelunds for this ;)
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::) Well Mr. T, IMV the line lies where ever your wallet takes you which for some is down blind allies. If the fun is in the journey then bon voyage, me I'll stick to tried and trusted over fairy tales, pixie dust and quick bucks. :)
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DIY - http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/ (http://diyparadise.com/w/thank-you-mr-schumann/)
http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140 (http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=140)
Thanks for the links!
I have made contact with yeo (diyparadise) about getting some kits and his reply below:
hi tuyen
i haven’t got time to buy the parts to prepare more kits.
i’ll get some in stock by the end of the week.
thx!
yeo
ps: if you like the effect of one, try a few more. i have a customer who has 9 in his system! and i was there to listen to the effects.
I'm thinking of getting 4 kits (1 on each corner), maybe even 6 (front and rear centre) :) :)
All fun!
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All fun!
duelands on all 6? :D
If you're buying, add 1 on top? Pay you back later... I'd be interested in one and see how it compares to the 777 and the 77...
Not sure if more is better TBH.. It's radiation after all? :'(
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No Duelunds!!
+1 kit for you no probs! :)
But it's all positive radiation! I do feel a sense that my system missing something after I took away your RR-77. :'(
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Interesting reply from yeo.
hi tuyen
yes! it’s a really big room. all with linear supplies.
as you added more, the realism got better and better. it feels like you are listening to the real thing. switch off one by one and you’ll feel the difference.
i’ll say start with a few first, no need to go all the way. the rest, you could always try at friend’s place.
many of my customers who use the schumann resonator likes it for helping them sleep better. in fact, this is why i was interested in it. the audio application came in later. : )
yeo
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Sorry V, just cause it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect!
I have tried it and I am quite confident with what I experienced, even if it may not be easily 'measurable'.
I put this device is in the same group as something like power cords, which are something of a more commonly recommended tweak in the audiophile world. Yet do people forget the countless meters of standard 'cheap' wire from the power box to your wall sockets? Why would 0.5m meter of cable from a wall socket to say a cd player make a difference? If people truly believe they can hear a difference, hence them shelling out on hundreds/thousands of dollars on power cords, do you believe that the difference would be easily measurable? I wouldn't think so? The concept doesn't make sense to me. But I have heard differences with power cords. Does it to you?
So when I see systems that use fancy(i.e. pricey) power cords and the owners claiming they can hear night and day improvements, should I ask them if they are being serious? Should I ask if they have been smoking pot and rolling them blunts up with 50 dollar bills? ;D
Do things have to make sense to one first before one is willing to accept there is an audible difference? Or is one willing to accept there are things that are a lot harder to understand (i.e. sometimes very difficult/impossible to quantify), but yet one's ears/mind would be able to pick it? 8) Like I wrote in a previous thread on this forum, the majority of the topics/tweaks on this actual forum would infact sit in the later category.
Agree or don't agree? Time for me to roll another blunt with my $100 billls :P
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No need to apologize Mr. T, every thing makes a difference including the mood of the person, humidity, temperature, air quality not to mention room size, reflection characteristics, absorption and general construction; all of which will have a far greater effect on the end results than an electronic gizmo.
The poor souls who cannot hear a difference when changing standard multi strand mains cables for a lower resistance better screened / constructed cable should not be allowed any where near proper sound systems IMV. Cables are 'measurable' in their resistance, inductance etc if you have the equipment to do so. Either the kit being used is not revealing enough (or possibly has an excellent power supply already) or the listener has untrained, inexperienced / impaired hearing.
Electronic gizmo's that produce LF emissions (ELF) may add to the sense of well being and thus assist some one in enjoying their listening more much like a glass of fine wine. I just feel sorry for all those folk who need such devices to enhance their systems to a stage where they become more listenable in the first place.
V
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But why would a relatively short power cable make a so much difference when there are countless meters of wiring from the power box to the wall socket would already be bottlenecking/limiting the 'quality' of the power already? How does adding a good power cord suddenly remove the bottlenecks before it?
Shouldn't you feel sorry for folk who can't manage to appreciate or enjoy listening to music on another system because in their mind they have already made a judgement just by looking at the componentry and cabling choices the owner has decided on? I know I do ;D :-*
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But why would a relatively short power cable make a so much difference when there are countless meters of wiring from the power box to the wall socket would already be bottlenecking/limiting the 'quality' of the power already? How does adding a good power cord suddenly remove the bottlenecks before it?
Why,, because it does, Somehow the currant changes form, losses something, redistributes, eliminating RF, how, why, now that is a question.
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Exactly Steven. Exactly! 8)
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DCR
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What about the DCR from the oodles of 'standard multistrand mains cable' from the distribution box to the wall socket? 8)
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No stranded from the distribution board to the service outlets, they are all solid core twin and earth, usually at least 2.5mm dependent on the current capability. Keeping DCR as low as possible usually helps. Ask Dave Willow what difference it made to his system changing to a dedicated ring main for audio.
V
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To put things somewhat in perspective (cause I exclude shipping)... How much is $30 SGD in the whole scheme of things?
That's about $25 AUD...
Not enough for a tank of fuel, lunch, parking, or anything really. Perth is a expensive place to live in really. $25 is higher than the hourly minimum wage in Oz, but really can't buy you much.. But it can buy this..
Personally I don't have the kind of ears you guys have... All the AR does is makes me feel better to listen to music more, it's just a better connection to the music.. In audiophile terms I would say it makes the music sound less digital. That's about it. it's just a feeling, call it placebo, call it audiopool, call it crappy system.. Call it whatever you want, but only after you have tried it...
People can disagree, but disagreement on speculation is a bit too SNA for me.
Tuyen seems more adamant and supportive on this product than me though (that makes me feel bad :p). But then he always has better ears than me..
I can only hear clarity and imaging (sound staging).. In those terms, I find products like cables and even isolation feets yield more positive benefits.. I am still on the fence whether the AR77 really works TBH.. But when I loaned it to Tuyen for a while, and I got it back, while waiting for the system to warm up, at his suggestion we turned this thingy on. Hell, this is weird. :D :D
Does it really work? The hell do I know, I got it for free any way... And for $25, the alternative is cheap enough to punt.. The AR models OTOH I would say no (the same money can be used for multiple other tweaks).
Anyway, I have never invited any guys over to have a listen, mainly because my system is not a great system and my place is tiny. But if you guys are interested to try the AR77 in situ (for whatever motives), shoot me a PM.. You make up your own mind.
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Yes 25 bucks buys you a PCB which is very affordable agreed.
Now look at the maths:
Sound travels at 340 m/s at sea level
a 7 hertz frequency equates to a wavelength of 48.5m.
Now look again at the PCB and tell me if ~30 separate spiral traces on the PCB matches the wavelength at that frequency. The timing IC is a std 555 chip. Where does the power come from to generate even a 1/4 wavelength source? I'd say several hundred of these devices would still leave you shy of getting even a fraction of a watt power at that frequency let alone acoustic power.
My deep bass units will do 7hz ( well below FS of the drivers) massive 25mm + excursion but it does not make you feel euphoric or well when they are turned up driven by hundreds of watts to get those 24" cones moving so it must be something else that makes people want to shell out hard earnt. The French developed a sonic cannon for close battlefield use, it would rearrange soldiers organs; is this the desired result? Loose bowels can be a most uncomfortable feeling brought about by an excess of LF sound, sickness follows then disorientation and eventually death if powerful enough.
Most kinds of electromagnetic radiation are bad for you and VLF is most disturbing and not something I would like to be exposed to for any length of time, that also goes for all those micro waves and mobile phones and general RF hash out there, now where did I put my X men copper hat :P
V
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My deep bass units will do 7hz ( well below FS of the drivers) massive 25mm + excursion ...... 24" cones....
V
:o :o :o
Okay, I need more info about that driver! ;D
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Yes 25 bucks buys you a PCB which is very affordable agreed.
Now look at the maths:
That point is all I have really.. It's affordable :p, cheaper than a plate of pasta.
Bear in mind, i reckon it's doing an EM wave (more a pulse), AFAICT it's not a compression wave.
If true, EM waves travels much faster than sound (close to speed of light in vacuum) so it's a much shorter distance.. Reason why people see lightning well before they hear the crack. Bah I suck.. :D What made me type this? lol
I don't even want to pretend I know how it works.. But for $25, it's not going to do anything bad (even cancer risks are low as it's so low powered)... Adding more units change this assumption though (so use more at your own risk).
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Post unliked! LoL
If one tries one of these units and cannot hear a difference, either the kit being used is not revealing enough or the listener has untrained, inexperienced / impaired hearing. 8) :P
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Post unliked! LoL
Apologies.. :D I was in the middle of lunch, and wait, that's not right! Not even close! :D. I have no excuse for that :D :D.
I don't think it's the wavelength that matters anyway, it's the frequency of the event (if it's a pulse).. from where you are/sit, something "hits you" regularly at that interval.
That's just a straw man theory as I honestly can't explain or describe this..
If one tries one of these units and cannot hear a difference, either the kit being used is not revealing enough or the listener has untrained, inexperienced / impaired hearing. 8) :P
As V said, at the end of the day, beauty is in the ears of the beholder.. Keyword being beholder. And beauty - everybody has their own interpretations...
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If they are as good as the $715 ETI AMG Toppers, I will take the lot!
http://www.eti-research.com.au/index.php/our-products/resonance-control-devices/eti-amg-toppers (http://www.eti-research.com.au/index.php/our-products/resonance-control-devices/eti-amg-toppers)
Screaming bargain!
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I was being totally genuine with my experiences with one of these units and it's effects I experienced. In return, I was accused of smoking pot with $50 bills. Then the thread/topic appears to the others like just a big joke. I'm assuming that is TJ's view.
Yet on other threads, we are discussing how shortening a length of a power cord completely kills the sound of the system, which seems to be 'common knowledge' among the traps.
Both experiences are not easily explainable and discussion of any measurements are pointless/ignored on this forum.
It seems like if it is a concept or experience that has been 'OK-ed' by the 'elite', then no problem, continue on. Else if it is something new and not completely explainable, you are on clearly on drugs and/or completely delusional! lol
Please correct me if I am wrong! ;D
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FWIW (probably not much!) there was one of these at the recent Lenehan DAC showdown/shootout/circlejerk/gtg and when it was switched in/out I felt there was a subtle change, a bit more body/flesh and longer decay to notes.
I wouldn't mind trying one or two at home and $30 is a bit more justifiable for an experiment/tweak than $500 so watching with interest to see your results Tuyen
http://www.aca.gr/index/hiend/hiendArticles?row=102
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/162477-diy-schumann-resonator.html
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FWIW (probably not much!) there was one of these at the recent Lenehan DAC showdown/shootout/circlejerk/gtg and when it was switched in/out I felt there was a subtle change, a bit more body/flesh and longer decay to notes.
Thats interesting Omodo, certainly got me curious.
Decay is one of those attributes I look for in a system. What is of interest to me in this discussion, is whether the generator is effecting us, rather than the system?
Either way, seems to be a cheap mod, in comparison to other tweaks. Which is Tuyens point
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Some questionable posts, have been moved to the Questionable thread, if you're wondering where they went.
Just trying to keep this thread on topic. Any concerns, PM me.
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jerichojason from Indonesia sells a few variants on his ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xschumann+resonator&_nkw=schumann+resonator&_sacat=0&_from=R40 (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xschumann+resonator&_nkw=schumann+resonator&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDcxWDY1NA==/z/eTUAAOxyfS1R29x3/$T2eC16FHJIgFHSOblERGBR29)3jLsg~~60_12.JPG)
Found the following interesting too:
Tips: You can place a CD on coil area for 10 seconds, This amazing
tweak works like Bedini Clarifier or Furutech CD Demagnetizer. After
treatment, sound is more clear, 3D, detail and musical. It really
works !!
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Yes 25 bucks buys you a PCB which is very affordable agreed.
Now look at the maths:
Sound travels at 340 m/s at sea level
a 7 hertz frequency equates to a wavelength of 48.5m.
Now look again at the PCB and tell me if ~30 separate spiral traces on the PCB matches the wavelength at that frequency. The timing IC is a std 555 chip. Where does the power come from to generate even a 1/4 wavelength source? I'd say several hundred of these devices would still leave you shy of getting even a fraction of a watt power at that frequency let alone acoustic power.
My deep bass units will do 7hz ( well below FS of the drivers) massive 25mm + excursion but it does not make you feel euphoric or well when they are turned up driven by hundreds of watts to get those 24" cones moving so it must be something else that makes people want to shell out hard earnt. The French developed a sonic cannon for close battlefield use, it would rearrange soldiers organs; is this the desired result? Loose bowels can be a most uncomfortable feeling brought about by an excess of LF sound, sickness follows then disorientation and eventually death if powerful enough.
Most kinds of electromagnetic radiation are bad for you and VLF is most disturbing and not something I would like to be exposed to for any length of time, that also goes for all those micro waves and mobile phones and general RF hash out there, now where did I put my X men copper hat :P
V
Hi Steve,
If it's an electromagnetic wave I don't think you can use sound parameters in the equation.
Do you need to use speed of light rather than speed of sound?
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Hello folks.. Long time no see... I see my account hasn't been deleted.. :D Good, coz I find something even weirder: http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-atmosphere
There really seems to be something to this, and I don't want to ignore it any longer. My problem is my ears suck. I'd see if I can bring my RR-77 around Perth for the next GTG and let you guys make up your own mind.. And if you do think alike, maybe you'd be interested in getting that? Would like to see one in action to satisfy my curiosity and I'm too cheapskate to buy one...
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Interesting... but how much for one (or a clone) without the iPad/iPhone interface wankery??
(btw. I picked up a used RR-777 recently and do find it to have a subtle but positive effect)
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Wow, it would be over $3k for that tuning stick. Way too rich for my blood! lol For things like these sorts of devices, me personally, the most I'd be willing to spend is perhaps $100-200. Consider me a cheapskate too!
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(btw. I picked up a used RR-777 recently and do find it to have a subtle but positive effect)
might have to check it out (the 777) on the brisbane visit? too many people say it makes a difference.
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Interesting... but how much for one (or a clone) without the iPad/iPhone interface wankery??
(btw. I picked up a used RR-777 recently and do find it to have a subtle but positive effect)
I think it requires the app unfortunately.. $2250 or something for the unit, and then $400+ for the module (at least one)...
Wow, it would be over $3k for that tuning stick. Way too rich for my blood! lol For things like these sorts of devices, me personally, the most I'd be willing to spend is perhaps $100-200. Consider me a cheapskate too!
Same here.. Esp in the current economic climate :(.. But hopefully there are others in WA who's more willing than us? :D
Yesterday while I re-arranged the furniture I unplugged the device.. And I was playing the CD player that time. All solid state.. The before and after differences yesterday were much easier to pick up. What's interesting is, once plugged in, the change isn't immediate, it'd only come approx 2s later. So there is a lag. I'd try later today and see if I can replicate the same thing yesterday, esp that lag.
might have to check it out (the 777) on the brisbane visit? too many people say it makes a difference.
Let me know how you find it if you do.. And do keep a look out for the Atmosphere... The RR series are "passive", the atmosphere is "active".. The whole concept is already weird as it is, the idea of the atmosphere is just too curious for me to ignore ;D, esp after reading the comments posted by John Akitnson (sp?).
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Hello folks.. Long time no see... I see my account hasn't been deleted.. :D Good, coz I find something even weirder: http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-atmosphere
There really seems to be something to this, and I don't want to ignore it any longer. My problem is my ears suck. I'd see if I can bring my RR-77 around Perth for the next GTG and let you guys make up your own mind.. And if you do think alike, maybe you'd be interested in getting that? Would like to see one in action to satisfy my curiosity and I'm too cheapskate to buy one...
Well, I have seen audio tweaks come and go, usually go. This looks to be a fun toy, It's interesting that i get very little, if any improvement with audio tweaks anymore so it's too risky for me to buy these expensive toys.
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Well, I have seen audio tweaks come and go, usually go. This looks to be a fun toy, It's interesting that i get very little, if any improvement with audio tweaks anymore so it's too risky for me to buy these expensive toys.
Do what I did.. Borrow.. ;).. If I have a chance to drop by your place, this is one thing I'd definitely be bringing over..
Until then, if you have a chance to try that out, lease let me know of your thoughts...