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General HIFI => Cables => Topic started by: Upfront on September 30, 2010, 10:10:46 PM

Title: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Upfront on September 30, 2010, 10:10:46 PM
Any ideas for a power cable design? I have about 10m of 1mm 3 core (active, neutral 1mm solid core and earth) and I'm wondering what sort of design to use. I'm thinking of twisting 4 neutrals then 4 actives twisted in the opposite direction and then 8 earths twisted back in the original direction. I understand that 8 or even 4 cables won't be able to be terminated in an IEC plug etc... I will connect and solder some fly leads for a proper connection. Stiffness will be another drama.
Any other ideas?
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: ozmillsy on September 30, 2010, 10:36:06 PM
 :o  that's gunna be a helluva monster power cable, can't wait to see some pics.

Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on October 12, 2010, 01:03:49 AM
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/26558-Making-up-power-cables?p=424037#post424037  post 31
shogun makes me laugh
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Upfront on October 12, 2010, 10:14:42 PM
Bloody hell mate. I better be careful so the cops don't come knocking
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Upfront on November 02, 2010, 08:22:40 PM
New power cable is half done.
Lucky I'm not trying to make a flexable cable!!!
Its made up of 1mm solid core cable
3 negative strands at a rate of 1 turn every 50mm
then 7 positive strands twisted the opposite way (90 deg to the negative).
next is the earth......
I'm going to need some more cable! 
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: crazikid on November 02, 2010, 08:36:33 PM
What a Behemoth of a cable... :P
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on November 02, 2010, 08:50:55 PM
fuk me audioquest better learn how to make a cable
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: ozcal on November 02, 2010, 08:56:24 PM
Lovely work UP
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Upfront on November 02, 2010, 10:09:17 PM
Thanks guys. Its a little rough but its only a prototype. A bit of fun while i have a quiet beer
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: tubeguy on November 05, 2010, 11:49:34 AM
New power cable is half done.
Lucky I'm not trying to make a flexable cable!!!
Its made up of 1mm solid core cable
3 negative strands at a rate of 1 turn every 50mm
then 7 positive strands twisted the opposite way (90 deg to the negative).
next is the earth......
I'm going to need some more cable! 

You do realize that the power coming from the wall is AC (obviously not judging by your post)
Both the Active and neutral should be of equal cross sectional area and the whole lot shielded by the earth if you want it to make any sonic difference.
Using fancy-pants wire wont make one bit of difference to the "sound" of your system.
However, if you shield the active and neutral, and happen to use crappy unshielded interconnects then there most likely will be an improvement in SNR.
This will give seemingly wider sound-stage, cleaner bass, and better instrument definition.

Best regards, TG
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 02:51:09 PM
New power cable is half done.
Lucky I'm not trying to make a flexable cable!!!
Its made up of 1mm solid core cable
3 negative strands at a rate of 1 turn every 50mm
then 7 positive strands twisted the opposite way (90 deg to the negative).
next is the earth......
I'm going to need some more cable! 

You do realize that the power coming from the wall is AC (obviously not judging by your post)
Both the Active and neutral should be of equal cross sectional area and the whole lot shielded by the earth if you want it to make any sonic difference.
Using fancy-pants wire wont make one bit of difference to the "sound" of your system.
However, if you shield the active and neutral, and happen to use crappy unshielded interconnects then there most likely will be an improvement in SNR.
This will give seemingly wider sound-stage, cleaner bass, and better instrument definition.

Best regards, TG
Tube guy, do you think different types and or gauges of wire will make any audible sound differences. I have made many power cables and they all sounded different. Solid core wire of varying gauges, changed the sound markedly..
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: tubeguy on November 05, 2010, 05:57:26 PM
New power cable is half done.
Lucky I'm not trying to make a flexable cable!!!
Its made up of 1mm solid core cable
3 negative strands at a rate of 1 turn every 50mm
then 7 positive strands twisted the opposite way (90 deg to the negative).
next is the earth......
I'm going to need some more cable! 

You do realize that the power coming from the wall is AC (obviously not judging by your post)
Both the Active and neutral should be of equal cross sectional area and the whole lot shielded by the earth if you want it to make any sonic difference.
Using fancy-pants wire wont make one bit of difference to the "sound" of your system.
However, if you shield the active and neutral, and happen to use crappy unshielded interconnects then there most likely will be an improvement in SNR.
This will give seemingly wider sound-stage, cleaner bass, and better instrument definition.

Best regards, TG
Tube guy, do you think different types and or gauges of wire will make any audible sound differences. I have made many power cables and they all sounded different. Solid core wire of varying gauges, changed the sound markedly..

Maybe in your head it does, but back in the real world there is no sonic difference. Unless there was a fault with the original cable.  Best regards, TG
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: treblid on November 05, 2010, 06:39:01 PM
Maybe in your head it does, but back in the real world there is no sonic difference. Unless there was a fault with the original cable.  Best regards, TG
I don't get it.. Are you trying to be philosophical or scientific? What has the real world got to do anything? What is real? What is not?

Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on November 05, 2010, 07:07:55 PM
@TG  would you mind sharing with us what kind of a system are you running currently in your home?
we just love eye candy aswell the more we see the bigger our hunger gets for music
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 07:27:42 PM
Any ideas for a power cable design? I have about 10m of 1mm 3 core (active, neutral 1mm solid core and earth) and I'm wondering what sort of design to use. I'm thinking of twisting 4 neutrals then 4 actives twisted in the opposite direction and then 8 earths twisted back in the original direction. I understand that 8 or even 4 cables won't be able to be terminated in an IEC plug etc... I will connect and solder some fly leads for a proper connection. Stiffness will be another drama.
Any other ideas?
Here is another cable i will show you how to make, a simple cheap power cord that sounds fine, very very good. Its the ones i use through my system. Get the parts from bunnings. I will put up pictures of how its made. Hope you know how to platt. Dont platt it to finely, about an inch apart. Use good copper or brass each end plugs.  If you have the money use the Furutech plugs. The cable you see is older, the new bunnings solid core stuff does not have the white around the cable it is thinner but copper diameter is the same, and is now just the red you see in the picture near the plug. Use the ferite ring near the wall end. Solder all the connections, clean the pins first.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 08:00:12 PM
New power cable is half done.
Lucky I'm not trying to make a flexable cable!!!
Its made up of 1mm solid core cable
3 negative strands at a rate of 1 turn every 50mm
then 7 positive strands twisted the opposite way (90 deg to the negative).
next is the earth......
I'm going to need some more cable!  

You do realize that the power coming from the wall is AC (obviously not judging by your post)
Both the Active and neutral should be of equal cross sectional area and the whole lot shielded by the earth if you want it to make any sonic difference.
Using fancy-pants wire wont make one bit of difference to the "sound" of your system.
However, if you shield the active and neutral, and happen to use crappy unshielded interconnects then there most likely will be an improvement in SNR.
This will give seemingly wider sound-stage, cleaner bass, and better instrument definition.

Best regards, TG
Tube guy, do you think different types and or gauges of wire will make any audible sound differences. I have made many power cables and they all sounded different. Solid core wire of varying gauges, changed the sound markedly..

Maybe in your head it does, but back in the real world there is no sonic difference. Unless there was a fault with the original cable.  Best regards, TG
Tube guy are you a electrical technician. Tech people usually have that point of view.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 08:10:32 PM
Any ideas for a power cable design? I have about 10m of 1mm 3 core (active, neutral 1mm solid core and earth) and I'm wondering what sort of design to use. I'm thinking of twisting 4 neutrals then 4 actives twisted in the opposite direction and then 8 earths twisted back in the original direction. I understand that 8 or even 4 cables won't be able to be terminated in an IEC plug etc... I will connect and solder some fly leads for a proper connection. Stiffness will be another drama.
Any other ideas?
Rule number one with power cords, keep it simple.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on November 05, 2010, 08:18:35 PM
pic of stevenvalves cable(cheap skate uses crap plugs)
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Jehuty on November 05, 2010, 08:26:50 PM
That looks pretty good to me Mario, but the most important thing is how does it sound?

Cheers,
William
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: crazikid on November 05, 2010, 08:27:30 PM
thats a massive ferrite ring... nice braid...
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: tubeguy on November 05, 2010, 08:27:44 PM
@TG  would you mind sharing with us what kind of a system are you running currently in your home?
we just love eye candy aswell the more we see the bigger our hunger gets for music

Nothing special.
Tannoy monitor gold 15" in home made back horn.
Single end 300B
Home made nos dac with tda1541
Marants sa11
home made ic's costing $20 pair
copper speaker wire from the 1950's (made by western electric I think)
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on November 05, 2010, 08:30:50 PM
any photos
i know the marantz sa11 do you use it as transport?
speaker wire pure copper or plated?
tannoys are beautiful and famous
its not ordinary rig tg
show us your dac please
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: tubeguy on November 05, 2010, 08:36:13 PM
dac is spread all over at the moment. still haven't finished the output buffer. May even use tubes :)

I plan to use the marantz as a transport when the dac is finished. May even sell it and just use an old one. I have several, CD50, CD65se, CD6000

Yes, speaker wire is pure copper.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Jehuty on November 05, 2010, 08:36:55 PM
@TG  would you mind sharing with us what kind of a system are you running currently in your home?
we just love eye candy aswell the more we see the bigger our hunger gets for music

Nothing special.
Tannoy monitor gold 15" in home made back horn.
Single end 300B
Home made nos dac with tda1541
Marants sa11
home made ic's costing $20 pair
copper speaker wire from the 1950's (made by western electric I think)

Nothing special is quite an understatement there tubeguy.. Pics would be awesome  :)
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: ozmillsy on November 05, 2010, 08:39:33 PM
The cable you see is older, the new bunnings solid core stuff does not have the white around the cable it is thinner but copper diameter is the same, and is now just the red you see in the picture near the plug.

Steven,  the double insulated solid core copper wire (red inside white insulation) was still available from Bunnings last time I visited,  I bought some,  and will likely buy more next time I'm there - I like it better than the single insulation wire as it doesnt get as "bendy".
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: kajak12 on November 05, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
dac is spread all over at the moment. still haven't finished the output buffer. May even use tubes :)

I plan to use the marantz as a transport when the dac is finished. May even sell it and just use an old one. I have several, CD50, CD65se, CD6000

Yes, speaker wire is pure copper.
tg look at kajak12 killer system my dac looks like shiezer! dont worry about cosmetics  what it sounds like counts
cd50 will make a more musical transport then the marantz s11 i can help you if you like
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 09:12:24 PM
@TG  would you mind sharing with us what kind of a system are you running currently in your home?
we just love eye candy aswell the more we see the bigger our hunger gets for music

Nothing special.
Tannoy monitor gold 15" in home made back horn.
Single end 300B
Home made nos dac with tda1541
Marants sa11
home made ic's costing $20 pair
copper speaker wire from the 1950's (made by western electric I think)
You are a god. I have had Tannoy monitor gold 15" and are great speakers. I use axiom 80 now and altec 515c.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: stevenvalve on November 05, 2010, 09:20:49 PM
@TG  would you mind sharing with us what kind of a system are you running currently in your home?
we just love eye candy aswell the more we see the bigger our hunger gets for music

Nothing special.
Tannoy monitor gold 15" in home made back horn.
Single end 300B
Home made nos dac with tda1541
Marants sa11
home made ic's costing $20 pair
copper speaker wire from the 1950's (made by western electric I think)
Do you have any TDA1541A chips. Do you think the S1-S2 sound any different than standard.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: Upfront on November 05, 2010, 11:39:28 PM
You do realize that the power coming from the wall is AC (obviously not judging by your post)
Both the Active and neutral should be of equal cross sectional area and the whole lot shielded by the earth...


Best regards, TG

I understand quite a bit more than you may realize. And yes it will be shielded by the earth when it's done.
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: ozmillsy on December 08, 2010, 10:33:53 PM
Upfront,  any progress on this monster power cable?
Title: Re: Another DIY power cable
Post by: vitavoxdude on December 27, 2010, 04:04:46 PM
Tube guy - "Cables don't make a difference" ??? and that from someone who uses vintage cable???  You have just got to be kidding.
When trying to make a good sounding mains cable I can show you around 20 ways of not making it.......................... I know there are lots of high priced  poor value for money cables out there and your admission of $20 interconnects tells me they are home brewed and probably tuned to your system.  Tannoys and 300B's says a lot about the path you have already been down.

The cable required varies according to what piece of kit you are running, i.e. double insulted CD players do not benefit from an earth wire as they only have the hot and neutral connected at the device.  Power amps have different requirements to pre amps etc.  Usually most systems are earthed via the power amp which can prevent earth loops.  I still prefer to have all the cases for music gear at the same potential so will not lift earths.  Anyone who's ever got the earth belt will think twice about messing around blindly.  Some equipment also have built in mains filters which dump noise to earth and in the absence of a proper earth will give you a nice belt if you touch the case and something earthed  that will wake you up sharpish, beware.

Shielding of the cable with the earth is a good idea but difficult to achieve practically.

I have found wildly differing results from the quantity of copper contained and the number  and geometry of strands,  even insulators make a difference.  It was shortly after I demonstrated mains filters and mains cables back in the 80’s that they became ‘flavour of the month’ and every one jumped onto the bandwagon to high prices.
A recipe that works pretty well and remains relatively flexible is high voltage test cable plaited together,  it comes from RS and Farnell  in several colours and is not expensive.  The way I look at mains feeds  in audio is a cricket bat smacking your butt every 50th of a second, it’s a mechanical shock hitting the primary windings in your transformer and then after it has set the cores vibrating it goes onto strike at your diodes, the capacitors have to damp this shock wave into something resembling pure DC, a big ask and probably why PIO caps do a better job as they damp better than electrolytics or polyester etc at lower frequencies.  Going back to the cable the harder the insulator surrounding the conductor also affects the sonics.
All this harps back to the usual arguments that 1 metre of cable after hundreds of kilometres of mains feed cannot make a difference, well to all those naysayers water filters work and so do having mains filters and specialist mains cables.  IMO they can either destroy or make a system and do not mind demonstrating this to nay sayers.  Looks like a piece of wire is not just a piece of wire.  The best cable I ever made was a platinum feed with a 36 amp capability, trouble is it was bloody expensive and was bought by a dedicated audiophile back in the UK who uses it with Cary valves and Klipshorns, he has very good ears.
Start at your consumer inlet and wire in a dedicated ring main just for the audio, >30 amp should do it or if that proves to difficult / expensive then get yourself some ‘ for audio mains cables’ and start enjoying the benefits.  ;D