The KillerDAC Audio forum
KillerDac => Announcements => Topic started by: kajak12 on October 11, 2010, 07:32:33 PM
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i know of 3 caps failing in killer dacs caps will be replaced seems their is a quality control issue with the caps or a manufacturing fault.
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Yes, it happened to me once too. Any word from the manufacturer Mario?
Cheers,
William
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Yes, it happened to me once too. Any word from the manufacturer Mario?
Cheers,
William
mike lenehan is taking care of it he sent a email off today we have to wait until its sorted out.i wish i didnt duelund caps but their is nothing else that does the magic. : :'( :'( :'(
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Sorry to hear that Mario, I hope things work out well then... I've been lucky with my Duelund caps so far (Steven replaced it with a new one before I bought my killerDAC). How did your caps fail? How long have you been running them?
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Sorry to hear that Mario, I hope things work out well then... I've been lucky with my Duelund caps so far (Steven replaced it with a new one before I bought my killerDAC). How did your caps fail? How long have you been running them?
i was setting :' up my mates system with some ml1+R and a sub it all started well then we started to hear a distortion in the midrange.
the volume would only work at the lower end of the scale.i thought his volume pot packed it,so i changed it and still we had no sound at louder levels.by swapping interconnects from left to right channel i worked out that its the dac.so i took it home got my multimeter out and tested for dc voltage on the output.left channel 0.00 right channel 51v dc.took the cap out and put in a auricap no more dc voltage on the channel.
my right channel is stuffed aswell but i have a input cap on my amp so i can still listen to music.
caps have 18 months usage :'( not to worry the main thing is it can be fixed thank god i know that dac inside and out ;D
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mate.. thats sh!t.
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Hmm,
That is not good. Hopefully the ones being used for cross-overs don't have the same issues. Just a tad harder to change them out.
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it's a pain, but is a small price to pay, for these pieces of pure gold.
the bigger worry is if duelund goes out of business (single person operation, with health issues).
they'll become priceless.
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It's time to collect all Duelund caps we can get then ;)
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it's a pain, but is a small price to pay, for these pieces of pure gold.
the bigger worry is if duelund goes out of business (single person operation, with health issues).
they'll become priceless.
i am sure somebody will take over oz its like making your own gold
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Hmm,
That is not good. Hopefully the ones being used for cross-overs don't have the same issues. Just a tad harder to change them out.
murray the good news is that they come with a 5 year warranty for us,not so good for mike
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i am sure somebody will take over oz its like making your own gold
Mario, you need to find a way to get over to Denmark, and learn all the secrets. 8) I'm serious ! :o ;D
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i believe mr jensen makes mr duelund caps.
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i am sure somebody will take over oz its like making your own gold
Mario, you need to find a way to get over to Denmark, and learn all the secrets. 8) I'm serious ! :o ;D
i am affraid i would not come back until i had 220uf 300v duelunds for my dac instead of jensens,and all duelunds in the digital power supply
(they should make chokes aswell) i cant imagine listening to anyother caps after a duelund in the killer
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i believe mr jensen makes mr duelund caps.
they get the raw materials from jensen and do their own thing with it.
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http://www.stereotimes.com/commDueland.shtml
looks like theres a few years left in ol' Frederik..
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i know of 3 caps failing in killer dacs caps will be replaced seems their is a quality control issue with the caps or a manufacturing fault.
The ones we use now, are rated at 100v- 200V, we actually use far less voltage than this. They make 400V versions. It may be wise to put 400v 2.2 uf in now, and use the others for the clock or whatever. If they fail they are wasted. Mine have been going for over two years, but i am going to order 400v versions from now on, they may sound better, who knows usually bigger is better.
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hmm, you are using 200Vdc rated caps? what's the B+?
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hmm, you are using 200Vdc rated caps? what's the B+?
...and just as relevant, is there a start up timer (or something similar) to stop the full B+ hitting the plate resistor before the output tube has fully warmed? you realise the full B+ is present on the output cap at startup otherwise right? Perhaps that would invalidate any duelund warranty since they were are being used out of spec?".
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HI ,
As mentioned we can add a timer that disconnect the dueland from the circuit and after 60 sec reconnects or the easyest way would put a switch in series with the cap but both these ideas will cause a loud pop.
I will give this some thought and get back you .
Paul
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HI ,
As mentioned we can add a timer that disconnect the dueland from the circuit and after 60 sec reconnects or the easyest way would put a switch in series with the cap but both these ideas will cause a loud pop.
I will give this some thought and get back you .
Paul
Easy solution. Put a timer on the heater for the tube rectifier. Solves the popping and gives a nice slow application of b+ to the output tube once its already warm.
Well Boys,
I have just gone and measured my voltage across the dueland in my dac and to my amazment from cold turn on the volt for about 3 second went to the same as the B+ rail.Then as the ecc88 warmed up come down to 70 volts. It appears that this would proberly be very low current as the out of the dueland goes to ground though a 100k resistors and the amp has an input cap.Never the less it could damage a cap. Some caps will tolerate a high spick better than others.I am working on a different approch for the tube output stage which would not have this problem.It takes time to develop new ideas.
In all the dacs with these caps in them 3 is not a lot.As a technican I see a lot more caps on regular basis changed in a LCD Monitor or TV.
Any way boys lets enjoy our toys
Paul
Im really really amazed you didnt consider it to be honest, usually people just use an output cap rated to full b+, but in the case of the duelund I understand the cost increase would be significant.
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not sure why it's to your amazement? coupling caps/output caps connected to the plate should be rated at least to the value of voltage that could be on the plate, and before the tube is conducting/heated this would be the full B+
adding a B+ timer to delay the application of HV until the output tubes are warmed is pretty trivial, or do what avian suggests and delay filament voltage to the rectifier
capacitor costs aside (the difference between a 200Vdc duelund and a 400Vdc Duelund isn't that much in the scheme of things), sending (70V!!) DC down the ICs after a cap fails could be a potentially costly issue
I'd be suprised if the Duelund warranty covers applying 1.5x the rated voltage, no matter how short...
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not sure why it's to your amazement? coupling caps/output caps connected to the plate should be rated at least to the value of voltage that could be on the plate, and before the tube is conducting/heated this would be the full B+
adding a B+ timer to delay the application of HV until the output tubes are warmed is pretty trivial, or do what avian suggests and delay filament voltage to the rectifier
capacitor costs aside (the difference between a 200Vdc duelund and a 400Vdc Duelund isn't that much in the scheme of things), sending (70V!!) DC down the ICs after a cap fails could be a potentially costly issue
I'd be suprised if the Duelund warranty covers applying 1.5x the rated voltage, no matter how short...
Mine have about 2-3 years on them without any trouble. I do use a filament switch and disable the B+. GZ34 rectifiers have a delay standard, most do not. There has been about 30 used so far only one i have had failed. Anyway people change them, we will use them in other places in the DAC. Mike is ordering some now, so get moving. 2.2 UF or bigger 400V. He orders not that often so do it now.
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not sure why it's to your amazement? coupling caps/output caps connected to the plate should be rated at least to the value of voltage that could be on the plate, and before the tube is conducting/heated this would be the full B+
adding a B+ timer to delay the application of HV until the output tubes are warmed is pretty trivial, or do what avian suggests and delay filament voltage to the rectifier
capacitor costs aside (the difference between a 200Vdc duelund and a 400Vdc Duelund isn't that much in the scheme of things), sending (70V!!) DC down the ICs after a cap fails could be a potentially costly issue
I'd be suprised if the Duelund warranty covers applying 1.5x the rated voltage, no matter how short...
Mine have about 2-3 years on them without any trouble. I do use a filament switch and disable the B+. GZ34 rectifiers have a delay standard, most do not. There has been about 30 used so far only one i have had failed. Anyway people change them, we will use them in other places in the DAC. Mike is ordering some now, so get moving. 2.2 UF or bigger 400V. He orders not that often so do it now.
Paul has checked his dac, and with a B+ switch does not get the startup surge. Anyway change them (Caps), they are too expensive to take the risk.
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G'day Steve,
What's your thoughts on the duelund CAST-Cu ones?
I'll ask if Mike is able to get in any of the new VSF blacks :D
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good question tuyen...
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G'day Steve,
What's your thoughts on the duelund CAST-Cu ones?
I'll ask if Mike is able to get in any of the new VSF blacks :D
You will have to find the voltage rating. As for sound wise, are you going to be the ginea pig. may be crap
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does that mean i've gotta replace my duelunds?
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What price can Mike get the 400v 2.2uf vsf cu for?
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does that mean i've gotta replace my duelunds?
You can use them but take the risk that one day they may stop. Or buy the 400V version maybe never have a problem. Ring mike for a price he is aussie distributer. They may sound even better. usually higher voltage caps do.
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awesome.. thanks.. :D
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does that mean i've gotta replace my duelunds?
We use 65V dc. They are rated at 100V ac. Even at switch on. peak is still well with specification. They are hand made and vulnerable to variances.
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just measured my dac for dc on the cap.b+ switched off and a waiting time of 10min then i turned the b+ on the dc voltage reading was 136v dc for about 30 sec.well below the 200v dc raiting
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Guys,
The simple solution to this is to protect the Duelund with a 100V clamp circuit on it's input.
This will prevent the input (tube) side of the Duelund from ever going above 100V.
Refer to my schematic below. Basically there are 3 connection points, ground, Duelund IP and HT (300V).
cheers
Terry
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I ran Ltspice simulator to design the clamp and optimise it so as not to degrade any 'killer sound'
With 3V pk OP and at 20kHz which is worst possible condition, the clamp adds 0.00033%
distortion - mainly 2nd harmonic.
I will knock one up and try it on Stevenvalves system.
Terry
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terry... your a genius... thanks steve and mario for your input
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Appreicate it greatly zen!
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thanks terry for sharing cant wait for steves feed back(i like harmonic distortion) ;D
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Hasnt this place been a flurry of activity since yesterday. I was the one who emailed duelund. I was concerned you people were tarnishing his reputation with your acts of stupidity. Amazing how everyone here was so quick to blame the capacitors before even looking at your half arsed circuit. If it wasnt for me and omodo you guys would still be blowing caps and blaming duelund. I also wanted to make sure if he got any returns from misused caps he knew why. Dont see why Frederick or Lenehan should bare any cost from your mistakes. Im not hiding. and Im not posting here anymore, there is honestly no point. Ive had my vent over on diyaudio, now my life will exist as though there is no such thing as a killerdac, and it will be a state of wonderful oblivious ignorance (just how the dac is built).
i know of 3 caps failing in killer dacs caps will be replaced seems their is a quality control issue with the caps or a manufacturing fault.
You might want to look at editing your original post now that you've learned something new.
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Ok time to get things on track. Please try and keep things constructive.
Avian, you obviously know quite a lot about electronics and your feedback is certainly welcome. Please do be constructive rather than outright condemning though. Please remember that most of the people here are new (some more than others ie me) to electronics and enjoy the learning curve. The points you raise are certainly helpful and I'm sure will be taken on board by the guys putting these things together. Proof that more people contributing means a better end result for everyone.
There is unfortunately a lot of reactive type posts going on here which I am going to delete out of the thread. Some by regulars and some by external people. In this case both are a out of order and inflammatory leading to people getting hot under the collar. Again, please keep things constructive, this type of posting is not what we want to achieve here.
Most of you guys here have TDA dacs and love them dearly. It is time to start using that as a bit of common ground and getting back to that :)
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Can't agree more with your post 3bm.
I'm no electronics wiz either, so I'm truly enjoying the learning aspect of all this DIY stuff and when constructive input and advice is given from anyone. I always try to help others whenever and whereever I can though. That's what I kind of enjoy about the the DIY scene. Everyone seems to try help each other out when possible?
Make peace, not war. Enjoy your systems and remember to share the love!(when appropriate)
;D
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I can not undersatnd why my posting can turn people against each other .My B+ is mutch lower than others and I feel in my dac that this is not a problem but for others with higher voltage is the only reason that I posted it.
Please stop fighting and enjoy you systems.
Paul
Guys. We (Paul Terry Steven) have known for years that there is a surge on start up in the DAC, but its well within spec of this cap, i have used 30+ of these caps, and they have been running for years. and only 1 of these has failed and that was in the first hour. So there is no real need to get the 400V cap unless for reliability, That is why allmost all the DACs i have made have a heater switch, and disable the B+ on startup. And if yours does not, put one on. I will get some anyway, Duelund 400V mainly the see how they sound, and if they cut it, i will let you know.
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Hasnt this place been a flurry of activity since yesterday. I was the one who emailed duelund. I was concerned you people were tarnishing his reputation with your acts of stupidity. Amazing how everyone here was so quick to blame the capacitors before even looking at your half arsed circuit. If it wasnt for me and omodo you guys would still be blowing caps and blaming duelund. I also wanted to make sure if he got any returns from misused caps he knew why. Dont see why Frederick or Lenehan should bare any cost from your mistakes. Im not hiding. and Im not posting here anymore, there is honestly no point. Ive had my vent over on diyaudio, now my life will exist as though there is no such thing as a killerdac, and it will be a state of wonderful oblivious ignorance (just how the dac is built).
i know of 3 caps failing in killer dacs caps will be replaced seems their is a quality control issue with the caps or a manufacturing fault.
I would just like to comment on Avians email to Duelund ! I certainly will not be divulging the text ! I would like to say however that it was vindictive and contextually destructive. Very transparently so if fact and contained three significant inaccuracies.
Unfortunately this is whats not good about forums today ! people sit in front of their computers and can't wait to take someone down.
I'm a loudspeaker designer so only have basic chops re electronics ! I'm don't fully understand whether the product was being used correctly or not but Frederik explained to me on the telephone last night that to be safe he would use the 400v versions of the VSF.
His comment was that the lower voltage version would probably be ok but if there was enough thermal variation re external ambient temperatures the caps voltage rating could be lowered by around 10%.
Perhaps we've all learnt something here ! Regards Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio
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The observations made on the other DIY forum "may" have held some technical merit and even worthy of some robust debate or conversation. However the general comments and insults aimed personally at members or "minions" on this forum were IMO unprovoked, gutless and just plain nasty. :P
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I would just like to comment on Avians email to Duelund ! I certainly will not be divulging the text ! I would like to say however that it was vindictive and contextually destructive. Very transparently so if fact and contained three significant inaccuracies.
Unfortunately this is whats not good about forums today ! people sit in front of their computers and can't wait to take someone down.
I'm a loudspeaker designer so only have basic chops re electronics ! I'm don't fully understand whether the product was being used correctly or not but Frederik explained to me on the telephone last night that to be safe he would use the 400v versions of the VSF.
His comment was that the lower voltage version would probably be ok but if there was enough thermal variation re external ambient temperatures the caps voltage rating could be lowered by around 10%.
Perhaps we've all learnt something here ! Regards Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio
I agree with Frederik, to save any possible problems it may be wise to use the 400V version. Heat seems to be an issue, i do not run a lid on mine and they run cold. Do the 400V models sound great, well that is the question. I will be the guinea pig
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edited mike's/stevens posts to correct the quotations......
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My Cast Pios are running fine.
Hopefully those other vsfs dont die on me haha.
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My Cast Pios are running fine.
Hopefully those other vsfs dont die on me haha.
Just for interest Mario checked the voltage start up peak on richards DAC, and it was under 85V DC Well within Spec of this cap. As i said i have been checking this for 8 years on and off and find no real problem. But if its a problem or worry for you change to the 400V.
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Guys,
The start up peak (when it happens) is a result of the rectifier tube heating up and conducting
current slightly faster than the OP tube does. When this occurs, the B+ builds up voltage before the OP tube
'sucks' it back down through the load resistor. Kind of like a delayed wave effect.
As such it is dependent on the individual tubes warm up to conduction times, ie; it will vary depending
what tubes you run.
The downside of the design is that if you have a fault in the OP tube, or in fact turn the DAC on without OP tube
plugged in, full B+ will be across the cap - not a good thing!
Generally speaking a good design should have caps rated for full B+ operation or otherwise have some form
of protection for the cap.
My recommendation is:
- if you are using a valve amplifier or have a standby switch all should be OK
- if you are using a SS amp or active speakers and do not have a standby switch, it's a good idea to use the voltage clamp I have shown above.
I'll knock up a few and we can evaluate them on Steve's system in the next week or so to make sure they don't affect sound in any way.
cheers
Terry
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The downside of the design is that if you have a fault in the OP tube, or in fact turn the DAC on without OP tube
plugged in, full B+ will be across the cap - not a good thing!
Generally speaking a good design should have caps rated for full B+ operation or otherwise have some form
of protection for the cap.
Hi, I took a step back from this thread for a few days due to the direction it was heading, which was partly my fault, I apologise for any angst my posts may have caused.
The above point made by zenelectro is a very important, and further illustrates the need to choose a capacitor rating that is suitable for all possible scenarios of your circuits operation.
In addition to the solutions offered in this thread, and if you wanted to keep using the 200v rated duelunds, another option would be to reduce the B+ to below the capacitor rating, and use an active plate load/CCS (such as a cascoded IXYS 10M45S, DN2540N5, etc). This would avoid the need for a large plate load resistor (and thus the high B+ to allow for the drop across the resistor). This is very simple to do, basically 2 depletion mode mosfets, gate/grid stopper resistor, and a source resistor to set the ccs current, 4 parts per channel. And at the currents required for your circuit heatsinking would not be required. Another side benefit would be a reduction in output impedance for the stage.
edit: although I expect a ccs plate load, and/or the zener string/clamp, will both have a large effect on the sound/voicing of this dac that Steven et. al have worked so hard to achieve. But, still an interesting experiment to try - if the ccs load hasn't been tried before, it may have been.
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edit: although I expect a ccs plate load, and/or the zener string/clamp, will both have a large effect on the sound/voicing of this dac that Steven et. al have worked so hard to achieve. But, still an interesting experiment to try - if the ccs load hasn't been tried before, it may have been.
WRT the voltage clamp - the design criteria was:
a) Not to change the DAC design - it was painstakingly derived over a long period of careful listening tests.
b) Offer protection of the existing design -without- changing the sonics at all (if possible)
- Changing the design to an active load, particularly FET based CCS would almost certainly change the sonics.
- The clamp I have design should not change the sonics. It was carefully thought out and then simulated.
The zeners are only used as a voltage reference and so their noise and capacitive modulation is out of
the signal path. We will verify this.
cheers
Terry
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thanks for the info. I most certainly agree the ccs load will change the sound - by a lot, and pretty much put you back to square one, so - not the best solution, but you get to "easily" keep the duelunds! :) I'm interested to know how much the 200v vsf contribute to the final sound/voicing (I've only heard the DAC with duelunds), there has been talk to changing to cast pio, vsf black, 400v vsf, all of which will most likely have a large impact.
I'm looking forward to hearing the results of the clamp listening tests, if there is no impact to the sound it sounds like a perfect solution/fix
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Patiently await the results Terry. Thanks :)
I installed a pair of CAST PIO on one of hen's dacs. Hopefully he can chime in on his thoughts compared to his other dac which uses the standard VSF.
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Patiently await the results Terry. Thanks :)
I installed a pair of CAST PIO on one of hen's dacs. Hopefully he can chime in on his thoughts compared to his other dac which uses the standard VSF.
As for the new cap types from duelund, they will change the sound. some will like these changes others not. basically (the DACs) are hand tuned by you, if you change parts, all the changes in vintage chokes valves rectifiers Deuland dubilier plessey caps types, you put in, make it a new ball game. I will try the 400V duelunds before any mod, because LESS is MORE. The only thing that will stop me is if they do not sound as good. To me sound is first, I what magic i will not put up with any drop in performance.
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edit: although I expect a ccs plate load, and/or the zener string/clamp, will both have a large effect on the sound/voicing of this dac that Steven et. al have worked so hard to achieve. But, still an interesting experiment to try - if the ccs load hasn't been tried before, it may have been.
WRT the voltage clamp - the design criteria was:
a) Not to change the DAC design - it was painstakingly derived over a long period of careful listening tests.
b) Offer protection of the existing design -without- changing the sonics at all (if possible)
- Changing the design to an active load, particularly FET based CCS would almost certainly change the sonics.
- The clamp I have design should not change the sonics. It was carefully thought out and then simulated.
The zeners are only used as a voltage reference and so their noise and capacitive modulation is out of
the signal path. We will verify this.
cheers
Terry
Terry, has helped in what you see today (DAC) for longer than i can remember, his imput has been priceless, and we will (with his help) only go forward. And of couse not forgetting Pauls wonderfully designed and built digital boards.
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The downside of the design is that if you have a fault in the OP tube, or in fact turn the DAC on without OP tube
plugged in, full B+ will be across the cap - not a good thing!
Generally speaking a good design should have caps rated for full B+ operation or otherwise have some form
of protection for the cap.
Hi, I took a step back from this thread for a few days due to the direction it was heading, which was partly my fault, I apologise for any angst my posts may have caused.
The above point made by zenelectro is a very important, and further illustrates the need to choose a capacitor rating that is suitable for all possible scenarios of your circuits operation.
In addition to the solutions offered in this thread, and if you wanted to keep using the 200v rated duelunds, another option would be to reduce the B+ to below the capacitor rating, and use an active plate load/CCS (such as a cascoded IXYS 10M45S, DN2540N5, etc). This would avoid the need for a large plate load resistor (and thus the high B+ to allow for the drop across the resistor). This is very simple to do, basically 2 depletion mode mosfets, gate/grid stopper resistor, and a source resistor to set the ccs current, 4 parts per channel. And at the currents required for your circuit heatsinking would not be required. Another side benefit would be a reduction in output impedance for the stage.
edit: although I expect a ccs plate load, and/or the zener string/clamp, will both have a large effect on the sound/voicing of this dac that Steven et. al have worked so hard to achieve. But, still an interesting experiment to try - if the ccs load hasn't been tried before, it may have been.
Omodo. your input will always be welcome. In the long run i think you are right. The 400v model was not available until recently, that is why they where not used originally. The 100V Dc model was by far the best cap of any, (by a wide margin), at that time, So it was the only game in town.
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Hasnt this place been a flurry of activity since yesterday. I was the one who emailed duelund. I was concerned you people were tarnishing his reputation with your acts of stupidity. Amazing how everyone here was so quick to blame the capacitors before even looking at your half arsed circuit. If it wasnt for me and omodo you guys would still be blowing caps and blaming duelund. I also wanted to make sure if he got any returns from misused caps he knew why. Dont see why Frederick or Lenehan should bare any cost from your mistakes. Im not hiding. and Im not posting here anymore, there is honestly no point. Ive had my vent over on diyaudio, now my life will exist as though there is no such thing as a killerdac, and it will be a state of wonderful oblivious ignorance (just how the dac is built).
i know of 3 caps failing in killer dacs caps will be replaced seems their is a quality control issue with the caps or a manufacturing fault.
I would just like to comment on Avians email to Duelund ! I certainly will not be divulging the text ! I would like to say however that it was vindictive and contextually destructive. Very transparently so if fact and contained three significant inaccuracies.
Unfortunately this is whats not good about forums today ! people sit in front of their computers and can't wait to take someone down.
I'm a loudspeaker designer so only have basic chops re electronics ! I'm don't fully understand whether the product was being used correctly or not but Frederik explained to me on the telephone last night that to be safe he would use the 400v versions of the VSF.
His comment was that the lower voltage version would probably be ok but if there was enough thermal variation re external ambient temperatures the caps voltage rating could be lowered by around 10%.
Perhaps we've all learnt something here ! Regards Mike Lenehan LenehanAudio
Good points, that's why if you plan to build something posted on the net, it's best to use a design done by someone who knows and fully understands what they are doing.
Now imagine for a moment if you happen to have a cap fail, in your quest to locate the fault you remove the suspect channel IC. Whilst inavertantly holding it you flick the power switch on, B+ at the tip of the RCA plug for 10~30 seconds. Enough to kill most people.
There are too many circuit designs floating around the web that are very dangerous and could inflict serious injury, or even death in the worst case.
TG
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There is a lot of people modifying equipment out there, including the KDAC . There is a lot fun in making your own sound, from an already great dac. We have a lot of tech people out there that think you may kill yourself, and they are right. I guess it is the because some modifiers are untrained amateurs and there is always that possibility, so be care full. If any of you guys do kill yourself, please leave me all your TDA1541A Double Crowns.
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hehe.. very funny..
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Good points, that's why if you plan to build something posted on the net, it's best to use a design done by someone who knows and fully understands what they are doing.
Now imagine for a moment if you happen to have a cap fail, in your quest to locate the fault you remove the suspect channel IC. Whilst inavertantly holding it you flick the power switch on, B+ at the tip of the RCA plug for 10~30 seconds. Enough to kill most people.
There are too many circuit designs floating around the web that are very dangerous and could inflict serious injury, or even death in the worst case.
TG
TG,
Your points are noted.
If you do some research, lethal current is generally considered well above 10mA and that would have to pass in one
arm and out the other. Once you factor the bodies resistance in series with the plate resistor of DAC and the available HT
supplying that resistor, it's unlikely you would get 'hit' with more than a few mA, even if you jumped straight out of a wet shower
with the sudden urge to unplug your interconnects after a cap failure.
However safety and reliability are always of prime concern, refer to my previous post of OP voltage clamps. I made up a
couple shown below and we will evaluate them.
cheers
Terry