The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Transports => Topic started by: flemo on October 30, 2010, 09:49:24 PM
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I purchased this CD85 a few weeks ago to convert into a dedicated transport. When I received it from the UK I was really impressed with its build quality and wasn't sure if I had the heart to pull it apart and modify such a lovely machine.
I used it for a couple of weeks as a transport in stock form with the kdac. It was smooth sounding with wooly or bloomy bottom end and lacked topend resolution. It had good midrange weight though.
As a stand alone CDP it was quite nice, again very smooth and weighty bottom end but lacked topend resolution. I can see why many people pursue these older, vintage CDP's and 'generally' use them to help roll off the harsh topend and add midrange weight when combined with modern hi-fi speakers and SS amplifiers. In my situation I had enough smoothness and midrange, and I certainly wasn't looking to loose any topend detail either.
After I made the decision to modify the CD85 it came apart quite easy.
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Oh that Q selection S1 chip will be so lovely in your kdac. :)
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The first thing I did was remove the PCB with the S1 chip and sent it to Daniel in NSW to remove the chip (for my kdac) and add IC sockets for the clock upgrade.
The next thing I wanted to do was remove the power cord and install an IEC socket, but not without removing the entire rear panel first. I have enough bad luck without going looking for it!
The other problem was locating the IEC where the existing cord was attached. Unfortunately with the fuse holder and voltage switch taking up too much room there's no way it would fit. I have 2 x options, either mount the socket in the middle of the rear panel or entend the rear panel slightly with a timber block and fit the IEC in the same position as the cord? Still not decided. ???
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Oh that Q selection S1 chip will be so lovely in your kdac. :)
I hope so mate!
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Pete you could always look at removing the voltage selector and just have it fixed on 240v and pop the iec in there.
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Good idea Gordon.
Took some pics of that mod done on my cd94
(http://i56.tinypic.com/qyfvh4.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/4t7bsh.jpg)
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oh yeah, fuse has been bypassed. eek :-X
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get rid off the green wire and put the blue wire to the iec socket ;D
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Pete you could always look at removing the voltage selector and just have it fixed on 240v and pop the iec in there.
Hi Gordon, yepp I considered that too but was hoping to retain some of the original features of the unit, but it may be the best solution. ;)
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Okay so with removing the voltage selector, does the unit default to 240v, or is there some electrical work required to re-route or bypass the wiring? ???
Thought I'd attach a pic of the bottom of the unit with the outer chassis removed.
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Just picked up a CD85 for $300.00. CDM1 Mk11, S1 chip. Looks similar to a CD94.
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flemo got one he sent it to danny digital for a make over
thats fukin cheap
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I figured make it a dedicated transport S1 goes into my KD. Whats the S1 chip worth?
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good buy gamve! S1 chip is worth $200-300.
Free CD85 basically :)
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Ohhhhh...Nice 8)
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Just picked up a CD85 for $300.00. CDM1 Mk11, S1 chip. Looks similar to a CD94.
Well done gamve, an absolute bargain.
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The CD85 turned up in the mail yesterday and I have just hooked it up for a listen. It is in great condition overall for a player of this vintage, sadly no remote but. Sounds pretty reasonable as well for a standard player. Anyone after one for a dedicated transport? I'm going to pinch the S1 DAC chip (if it is in fact what it is supposed to be fitted) for my KD. Danny Is working on my CD960 so I don't really need this player. Could send it to Danny to have the chip removed then it could be converted to a transport at the same time.
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I received my modded CD85 PCB back from Danny a couple of days ago where he carefully removed the S1 chip, configured the PCB so the clock connects directly to it, and added the wiring for I2S. He did a fantastic job, his workmanship is of a very high standard.
Not sure when I'll be able to have it up and running, hopefully soon. Looking at giving to Mario to compare directly with his CD94 running I2S so we can see how close or far apart these machines are.
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oh yeah, fuse has been bypassed. eek :-X
A word of general advice - don't bypass fuses - it's not a very smart idea.
If you don't like the pcb mounted fuse, use an inline fuse from Jaycar or Farnell.
There are dozens of mods you can do to transports to improve performance that will make
way more difference than removing the fuse.
Terry
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I received my modded CD85 PCB back from Danny a couple of days ago where he carefully removed the S1 chip, configured the PCB so the clock connects directly to it, and added the wiring for I2S. He did a fantastic job, his workmanship is of a very high standard.
Not sure when I'll be able to have it up and running, hopefully soon. Looking at giving to Mario to compare directly with his CD94 running I2S so we can see how close or far apart these machines are.
WRT your clock connection - that long length of cat5 to connect your clock to (brn+whi) is not really the best idea.
Try and make the clock connection as short as possible. I've directly compared two aftermarket clocks in the past and
the length of connecting wire ended up being the main difference between the better and worse clock. Once the wires were
both the same (short) length there was not much between them.
Simple details like this will make more improvement than for example, bypassing a fuse.
Terry
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Terry is right, bypassing your fuses :o voids you household insurance if they find out, far better to fit circuit breakers which can also act as the on off switch. These come in low Ampage ratings and sound much better than any fuse. ( available from Farnell and RS) You can also get audio quality fuses with a ceramic body and rhodium plating if its too much trouble fitting the mini circuit breakers. You would have to be chasing the last 10% hard to descriminate the squashing of large dynamics to chase this down. Changing the mains cable makes a larger difference IMO without voiding any fire / contents / building insurances! Remember most transformers have thermal fuses built into them and you cannot bypass them unless you have replacement transformers wound to you spec as Steve G does!
rgds
Vitavoxdude
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I received my modded CD85 PCB back from Danny a couple of days ago where he carefully removed the S1 chip, configured the PCB so the clock connects directly to it, and added the wiring for I2S. He did a fantastic job, his workmanship is of a very high standard.
Not sure when I'll be able to have it up and running, hopefully soon. Looking at giving to Mario to compare directly with his CD94 running I2S so we can see how close or far apart these machines are.
WRT your clock connection - that long length of cat5 to connect your clock to (brn+whi) is not really the best idea.
Try and make the clock connection as short as possible. I've directly compared two aftermarket clocks in the past and
the length of connecting wire ended up being the main difference between the better and worse clock. Once the wires were
both the same (short) length there was not much between them.
Simple details like this will make more improvement than for example, bypassing a fuse.
Terry
Hi Terry, yes I agree the clock leads are too long at the moment and be assured they will be trimmed down at a later stage. It hasn't been up connected yet and was done with longer leads for me to trim to my required lengths later.
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Hi Terry, yes I agree the clock leads are too long at the moment and be assured they will be trimmed down at a later stage. It hasn't been up connected yet and was done with longer leads for me to trim to my required lengths later.
The replacement clock should have some sort of ground plane. The idea is to get this ground connected as close as you can to the ground at the location of the original crystal.
Assuming they got the grounding right on the CD85.
What clock are you using for this upgrade?
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WRT these I2S upgrades, there is an optimum way to implement them that negates the jitter of the SAA chip and drives the I2S cables correctly.
I'm working on an improved I2S arrangement that is driven by a super low jitter ovenised oscillator and gets the signal out of the transport with the highest quality.
As discussed elsewhere, I'm pretty convinced now that most people don't necessarily prefer the sound of just very low jitter per se.
As such there needs to be some tweaking of the design to retain musicality whilst also getting the benefits of lower jitter.
Can we have our cake and eat it - we will see :)
cheers
Terry
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Hi Terry,
Tell that to Mario and Steven :)
my cdp was like that when I got it! I don't like the idea of bypassing fuses either. I'm in the process of making my dogs breakfast of a system more safer and neater as now I have a puppy in the house. Safety has to always come first!
oh yeah, fuse has been bypassed. eek :-X
A word of general advice - don't bypass fuses - it's not a very smart idea.
If you don't like the pcb mounted fuse, use an inline fuse from Jaycar or Farnell.
There are dozens of mods you can do to transports to improve performance that will make
way more difference than removing the fuse.
Terry
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What clock are you using for this upgrade?
Hi Terry,
I'l be trying it with a modified Trichord clock and also Mario's Kajak12 killer clock.
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I finally managed to get the CD85 running today using a KAJAK12AUDIO clock.
I must say it seems very good, much to my surprise. In fact on my system I'd say the CD85 is better than the CD94!
Initial impressions are lively, very good resolution and detail, very open and free flowing. I was expecting a poor cousin of the CD94, but I am st the moment very happy. Of course a lot can change during a week of dedicated listening but right now it's very sweet.
Here are some some pic's of the clock using some random caps to get it working.
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Okay so here's some pic's of it running using the 12v battery off my AEG cordless drill. At this stage I was just stoked the bloody thing worked due to my recent run of hi-fi bad luck!
After a bit of listening it was obvious the caps needed changing to something with more weight. It was a bit hi-fi sounding, but in a non-offensive manner!
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Moving right along here I've changed the caps and the results were exactly what I was after.
It's now sounding smoother with more weight and richer in the midrange.
I also swapped the AEG battery to the 12v car battery and bugger me the changes were also significant. So much more presence and a much bigger sound stage, more top end weight and still very smooth with no rolloff effect. This CD85 is very revealing and I'm hearing things in the recordings I haven't heard before.
I have also found the CD85 seems to make the Gale speakers sound cripser with an overall cleaner sound, and helped tighten the bottom end.
On the top left of the pic's you'll see a coil of Cat5 wires, these are for I2S. I'm just trying to imagine how much better it will sound when I run I2S with the kdac - ooh baby!!
I also plan to bypass the voltage regulator and install a decent power cable. When the R&D is complete I'll shorten the flying leads, particularly the ones to the clock. Presently I'm running the CD85 with lid on and everything tucked away inside. Yepp it looks like a normal CDP!
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enjoy your journey flemo your learning and enjoying music that is the important thing
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very cool flemo..
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Yesterday I installed an IEC socket in the CD85 and went from the standard figure 8 cable to a Kajak12Audio DIY cable using the solid core copper wire.
I wasn't expecting too much but the gains were instant.
I experienced amazing differences in detail and top end weight, overall more open, tighter and more control in the bottom end.
Still happy with the CD85.
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but flemo, it's all just 1's and 0's isnt it ? 8)
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I prefer all 1's the 0's sound like nothing on my system ;D
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;D ;)
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Thought I'd update the thread with some pic's of the CD85 as it's currently setup because we all love pic's!!
I cut up an old TT lid and used that as the support shelf to hold the clock and caps.
The coil of Cat5 cable close to the support shelf is for I2S. Looking at connecting this up very soon. :P
The only thing left is to relocate the clock closer the PCB so can I shorten the wiring from 200mm to about 20mm, which should theoretically be an improvement.
Like Oz's CD94, my CDT is completely self contained and apart from the oil filled cap strapped to the back of the unit, and the DC cable for clock, it looks like a standard CDP.
I have to admit the CD85 is a wonderful machine to use and I love the build quality.
Cheers, flemo.
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Looks great Flemo.
I am still using a stock CD-50SE, but last week I had my eyes on a CD-80 on eBay that sold for $355. Pickup only in Sydney, unfortunately...
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Looks great Flemo.
I am still using a stock CD-50SE, but last week I had my eyes on a CD-80 on eBay that sold for $355. Pickup only in Sydney, unfortunately...
Hi Rab, the CD50 is a good unit but I have to admit the difference between the CD85 and CD94 to the CD50 is staggering. I have found the CD85 very open sounding and resolute. I am looking to compare it to other transports to quantify it's performance. I have made a few changes in my system recently which is great, but because they have been significant changes it's hard to gauge what area is actually performing better or different. All the changes have been very good so it's not like I'm trying to undo something, but it can be frustrating doing too much at once without having a base line to refer. I'm hoping to run the CD85 against a CD94 but even that will be compromised as the clock setup's will be different and TBH I really don't want to pull them apart. Hoping this weekend to compare my CD85 to Ozcal's Audio GD transport. That will be interesting!
I am also interested in how the CD85 will sound when I run I2S?? Many have said this open the sound up even more but it's hard to imagine that given how open my system sounds now with the ML1+R's and all the mod's done to the Mingda. The ML1's have by far the best imaging, clarity, control and openness of any speaker I have heard. But I have to admit I'm quite chuffed about where my system is at right now and how much more I can get out of it for not much outlay.
Cheers, flemo.
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Looking forward to the comparo too Pete. No real idea what the outcome will be but I have a feeling the 85 will be more musical.
Ps my system is sounding like poo at the mo as the Deulands (Alexanders) seem to have added an unwanted wireyness to the mids.
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I am also interested in how the CD85 will sound when I run I2S?? Many have said this open the sound up even more but it's hard to imagine that given how open my system sounds now with the ML1+R's and all the mod's done to the Mingda. The ML1's have by far the best imaging, clarity, control and openness of any speaker I have heard. But I have to admit I'm quite chuffed about where my system is at right now and how much more I can get out of it for not much outlay.
Cheers, flemo.
Having heard your system recently, I find hard to understand why you would be chuffed ;D.
As posted elsewhere, I was well impressed and based on what I heard, if I was going back to a CDP for a transport, I would be seriously looking at a CD85 and getting the 'flemo mods" made to it.
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Looking forward to the comparo too Pete. No real idea what the outcome will be but I have a feeling the 85 will be more musical.
Ps my system is sounding like poo at the mo as the Deulands (Alexanders) seem to have added an unwanted wireyness to the mids.
I will be looking forward to a report between the Marantz and the audio gd transports. I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on the audio gd so please let me know what you think.
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I am also interested in how the CD85 will sound when I run I2S?? Many have said this open the sound up even more but it's hard to imagine that given how open my system sounds now with the ML1+R's and all the mod's done to the Mingda. The ML1's have by far the best imaging, clarity, control and openness of any speaker I have heard. But I have to admit I'm quite chuffed about where my system is at right now and how much more I can get out of it for not much outlay.
Cheers, flemo.
Having heard your system recently, I find hard to understand why you would be chuffed ;D.
As posted elsewhere, I was well impressed and based on what I heard, if I was going back to a CDP for a transport, I would be seriously looking at a CD85 and getting the 'flemo mods" made to it.
A big part of flemo being chuffed is he can keep the system he is running now none of it is on loan ;D
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Yes that's right Mario, at last all the components in my system are mine!! ;D
Gordon, it will be interesting to see how the CD85 sounds on your system. As we know, what can perform well on one system may not sound so good on another. It looks as though I may be getting a Dueland cap for the CD85 clock. That is something I am keen to hear because at least I will be able to finally get to listen to one in my system! Not like those who have them in their speakers, dac and CD clock!! :P
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Looking forward to the comparo too Pete. No real idea what the outcome will be but I have a feeling the 85 will be more musical.
Ps my system is sounding like poo at the mo as the Deulands (Alexanders) seem to have added an unwanted wireyness to the mids.
I will be looking forward to a report between the Marantz and the audio gd transports. I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on the audio gd so please let me know what you think.
Brad , if you want to pop over on Sunday , you are welcome.
G
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Looking forward to the comparo too Pete. No real idea what the outcome will be but I have a feeling the 85 will be more musical.
Ps my system is sounding like poo at the mo as the Deulands (Alexanders) seem to have added an unwanted wireyness to the mids.
I will be looking forward to a report between the Marantz and the audio gd transports. I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on the audio gd so please let me know what you think.
Brad , if you want to pop over on Sunday , you are welcome.
G
Thanks Gordon i just might. What time are we talking?
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Bout 1pm
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Closed as requested by OP.