The KillerDAC Audio forum

General HIFI => Amplification (Pre/Power) => Topic started by: kajak12 on November 25, 2010, 11:56:26 PM

Title: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on November 25, 2010, 11:56:26 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SINGLE-ENDED-STEREO-VALVE-AMP-/120649467612?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item1c1744c6dc

just to start the thread we have transports what about amps!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: omodo on November 26, 2010, 11:16:28 AM
what's the criteria for great?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250722093940&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

these must be pretty special...
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on November 26, 2010, 07:09:40 PM
what's the criteria for great?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250722093940&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

these must be pretty special...
No just old vintage amps. But its a collectors item thats why they pay this money. Id probably replace some parts inside. Look at western electric on ebay put in highest first and then completed items and see the money they pay for anything western electric.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 28, 2010, 06:07:12 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Classic-PROTON-STEREO-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-AM-455-/320635684098?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4aa7604502


WHY IS THIS AMP GREAT WELL BECAUSE I USED TO OWN ONE  :D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: gamve on December 28, 2010, 11:57:48 PM
Proton made some good stuff. I have heard some sh!t about reliability but doubt the claims. My AA-1150 power amp sure kicks ass with the ML1+R's
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2010, 12:42:33 AM
Proton made some good stuff. I have heard some shiezer! about reliability but doubt the claims. My AA-1150 power amp sure kicks ass with the ML1+R's

BACK IN 1994 I HAD IT WITH http://www.audiosoundlabs.com.au/myweb/new8015.htm  and a sony cd player monster cables total cost $1800 a lot of money back then for me i was not working with 2 kids,but selling pot helped
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 16, 2011, 02:20:07 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/El34-Stereo-Tube-Amp-Singled-Ended-triode-Ultra-linear-/220724936181?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33643b3df5
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 16, 2011, 03:06:46 PM
Yes OK design but 115v is not Ossie friendly and stepdown transformers and 50Hz does it no favours, buy local if you can, there are some great valave amps in WA.  ;D
V ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Hens on January 16, 2011, 08:44:39 PM
There is? where?!!?!
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 16, 2011, 11:21:17 PM
Yes OK design but 115v is not Ossie friendly and stepdown transformers and 50Hz does it no favours, buy local if you can, there are some great valave amps in WA.  ;D
V ;D
a new power transformer will fix the problem 8)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 17, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
 ;D Hmmmm, don't agree, just swapping out a 110V transformer for a 240V effects the whole circuit IMO.  The power transformer is a very important part of the tuning of the amplifier; anyone who has tried  several different VA ratings for their power transformers will tell you that for instance a 200VA transformer may provide a liquid midrange but thin bass, a 300VA transformer may provide more bass but worse midrange.  Naim had a lot of problems when their original transformer manufacturer went out of business, they struggled to achieve their signature sound with other manufactures power transformers despite being rated for the same outputs; geometries, laminations, wire size etc all play a part in the final sound of an amplifier and when one looks at two transformers identically matched on paper they can prove quite different in practice.  Some manufactures run their magnetics at a long way beneath saturation and at low core losses, others don't.  Tamura Iron is going to be a lot different to Chinese 'Dick smiths' iron!

It has already been established that vintage chokes for the Killer DAC produces a better sound than their built down to a price from scrapped Japanese cars chokes, the same if not even more importantly applies to the power transformer as all an amp is after all is a modulated power supply.  And lastly, the American mains runs at 60Hz whereas here in Oz we run at 50Hz, don't think this makes a difference, well IMO it does as the whole circuit would have been tuned around it.
And on a final note, amps brought over from the UK do not always work correctly here in Oz, well let me qualify that statement, specifically valve amps.  The heater voltage on my 211SE amps instead of the correct voltage was higher due to the rise from UK mains to Oz mains, don’t make a difference, ha ha well maybe YOU have not tried it.  ::)

V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Hens on January 17, 2011, 05:08:52 PM
Agreed, iron is very important, hence why old WE iron is so largely sought after.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on February 25, 2011, 11:52:44 PM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PjYphY80Rs&feature=related
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on May 14, 2011, 12:00:55 AM
http://www.audiofederation.com/dealership/prices/lamm/index.htm

The ML2.2 is an 18 watt single-ended triode tube amplifier legendary in its ability to please the listener. Changes from the previous ML2.1 are that the fuse is now easily accessible and on top of the amp (instead of inside), more air, more naturalness and slightly more color in he midrange - and it is also slightly more expensive.

 $37,190.00/pair

look at the picture can you see $37k    fcuk me how can an amp be so much money
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on May 14, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
Bob Carver's crazy valve amp:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180665282517?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com.au%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D180665282517%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on May 17, 2011, 08:51:26 AM
Bob Carver's crazy valve amp:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180665282517?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com.au%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D180665282517%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


At least you would feel you got your 20 (+) grands worth - I'm going to follow this one and see what it goes for, could be anything.

T






Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on May 19, 2011, 09:41:10 PM
21 bids, less than a day to go.   Impressive units.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: flemo on October 29, 2011, 11:57:00 AM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MELODY-VALVE-TUBE-POWER-AMP-mono-blocks-ONE-KIND-845-300b-2a3-6sl7-/150679899606?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item231538cdd6

Check out the original price??   :o   Would be interesting to hear how something like this performs.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 07, 2011, 12:00:29 AM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Transcendent-Sound-single-ended-valve-otl-power-amplifier-/320808067284?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4ab1a6a0d4
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: gamve on December 07, 2011, 02:37:46 PM
Yeah Mario. I spied that. Good amp for some one with high efficiency speakers.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: data on December 13, 2011, 02:16:36 AM
http://www.audiofederation.com/dealership/prices/lamm/index.htm

The ML2.2 is an 18 watt single-ended triode tube amplifier legendary in its ability to please the listener. Changes from the previous ML2.1 are that the fuse is now easily accessible and on top of the amp (instead of inside), more air, more naturalness and slightly more color in he midrange - and it is also slightly more expensive.

 $37,190.00/pair

look at the picture can you see $37k    fcuk me how can an amp be so much money
Oh dear me  :-X
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on December 13, 2011, 03:30:57 AM
http://www.audiofederation.com/dealership/prices/lamm/index.htm

The ML2.2 is an 18 watt single-ended triode tube amplifier legendary in its ability to please the listener. Changes from the previous ML2.1 are that the fuse is now easily accessible and on top of the amp (instead of inside), more air, more naturalness and slightly more color in he midrange - and it is also slightly more expensive.

 $37,190.00/pair

look at the picture can you see $37k    fcuk me how can an amp be so much money
Oh dear me  :-X

It's the CIRCUIT!  :P
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 28, 2011, 12:45:05 AM
It's the CIRCUIT!  :P





sure is jehunty take a look at this http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/42200-FS-ME850-Amplifier

 :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 01:19:10 AM
It's the CIRCUIT!  :P





sure is jehunty take a look at this http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/42200-FS-ME850-Amplifier

 :o :o :o :o

The ML speakers would probably sound better with an accurate amp like the ME.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 03:37:37 AM
It's the CIRCUIT!  :P





sure is jehunty take a look at this http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/42200-FS-ME850-Amplifier

 :o :o :o :o

The ML speakers would probably sound better with an accurate amp like the ME.
http://sgraudio.com.au/products/power_amplifiers/el30sv.html   this is accurate i am saving my $$$$$ hope to demo next month
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on December 29, 2011, 11:01:34 AM
Say what M ???
Transistors :o :o :o And there was me thinking you are a dyed in the wool valve man!
5W of class A should be nice.

I note there were no power outputs or damping factors in the spec sheet which appear some what remiss for a commertial design.  :-X
The front panel and aggressive heat sinks make it a love or hate asthetics, ohh and there's the $5900 price tag so it's aiming at your second and third tier buyers. ::)

I take it you've heard it??? or is this the first audition? ;)
V ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on December 29, 2011, 11:30:28 AM
Say what M ???
Transistors :o :o :o And there was me thinking you are a dyed in the wool valve man!
5W of class A should be nice.

I note there were no power outputs or damping factors in the spec sheet which appear some what remiss for a commertial design.  :-X
The front panel and aggressive heat sinks make it a love or hate asthetics, ohh and there's the $5900 price tag so it's aiming at your second and third tier buyers. ::)

I take it you've heard it??? or is this the first audition? ;)
V ;D

VTV

Agreed, an interesting choice for mr kajak - I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't like it. For subs should be great though.

WRT DF, spec says >1000. Also is specced to drive 2ohms. Distortion is specced at 0.001%.

What do the above numbers mean?

The amp uses a ton of feedback, that's for sure, to acheive the high DF and low distortion.
Traditionally, lot's of feedback will give a sonic signature that is, lean, clean and very SS sounding.

So  far I haven't been able to get a very high feedback SS design to sound really listenable for the long term.
Spent the last 2 years on a super low distortion high FB design that was eventually put on the shelf.

Generally, they initially impress with lots of detail + resolution but after a while you get fatigued. I think this
is like the Halcro amps. A lot of people bought them but I believe many sold them after a period.
 
My latest zen amp goes back to old school and uses -no- feedback anywhere / is completely open loop. Input to output.
I've been testing one channel on the bench and results are interesting. Where as the open loop design will make more
distortion than a high FB design, it has other attributes that are pretty impressive. Bandwidth goes out to 1MHz (without RF
filters). It also clips much like a valve guitar amp, super smooth and rounded, no nasties at all.

I'd be interested to hear Marios opinion on the SGS.

cheers

T
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 04:11:01 PM
Say what M ???
Transistors :o :o :o And there was me thinking you are a dyed in the wool valve man!
5W of class A should be nice.

I note there were no power outputs or damping factors in the spec sheet which appear some what remiss for a commertial design.  :-X
The front panel and aggressive heat sinks make it a love or hate asthetics, ohh and there's the $5900 price tag so it's aiming at your second and third tier buyers. ::)

I take it you've heard it??? or is this the first audition? ;)
V ;D
yes heard at the audio show with illuminator speakers just look at sgr website with msb dac/transport most expensive worst system i heard to date i am sure others will agree
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 04:14:26 PM
Say what M ???
Transistors :o :o :o And there was me thinking you are a dyed in the wool valve man!
5W of class A should be nice.

I note there were no power outputs or damping factors in the spec sheet which appear some what remiss for a commertial design.  :-X
The front panel and aggressive heat sinks make it a love or hate asthetics, ohh and there's the $5900 price tag so it's aiming at your second and third tier buyers. ::)

I take it you've heard it??? or is this the first audition? ;)
V ;D

VTV

Agreed, an interesting choice for mr kajak - I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't like it. For subs should be great though.

WRT DF, spec says >1000. Also is specced to drive 2ohms. Distortion is specced at 0.001%.

What do the above numbers mean?

The amp uses a ton of feedback, that's for sure, to acheive the high DF and low distortion.
Traditionally, lot's of feedback will give a sonic signature that is, lean, clean and very SS sounding.

So  far I haven't been able to get a very high feedback SS design to sound really listenable for the long term.
Spent the last 2 years on a super low distortion high FB design that was eventually put on the shelf.

Generally, they initially impress with lots of detail + resolution but after a while you get fatigued. I think this
is like the Halcro amps. A lot of people bought them but I believe many sold them after a period.
 
My latest zen amp goes back to old school and uses -no- feedback anywhere / is completely open loop. Input to output.
I've been testing one channel on the bench and results are interesting. Where as the open loop design will make more
distortion than a high FB design, it has other attributes that are pretty impressive. Bandwidth goes out to 1MHz (without RF
filters). It also clips much like a valve guitar amp, super smooth and rounded, no nasties at all.

I'd be interested to hear Marios opinion on the SGS.

cheers

T
heard the amps at the show 10 amps to big speakers and msb running with them over 160k worth sounded like hifi (radio turned up)
no timbre,texture,colour bland and boring
terry you need a valve amp :P
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 05:54:03 PM
I thought they sounded poor at the hifi show myself Mario.  But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 05:56:05 PM
http://sgraudio.com.au/products/power_amplifiers/el30sv.html   this is accurate i am saving my $$$$$ hope to demo next month

Are you really demo'ing it?  If so, why?  You already have said you thought they sounded horrible at the show, and you are one to draw a conclusion from a listen at an audio show...... so why?  Could it be so you can start rubbishing the brand more and confirm you strong bias of .. has to be valves, has to have dueland capacitors, has to be point to point ....etc... rubbish ?
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 05:56:52 PM
I thought they sounded poor at the hifi show myself Mario.  But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
nothing wrong with the room it was the best room of the show i guess measuring didn't help either in this case i have heard sgr twice so for me its not up to speed
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 05:59:56 PM
http://sgraudio.com.au/products/power_amplifiers/el30sv.html   this is accurate i am saving my $$$$$ hope to demo next month

Are you really demo'ing it?  If so, why?  You already have said you thought they sounded horrible at the show, and you are one to draw a conclusion from a listen at an audio show...... so why?  Could it be so you can start rubbishing the brand more and confirm you strong bias of .. has to be valves, has to have dueland capacitors, has to be point to point ....etc... rubbish ?
1.must have valves for me imho
2.great circuit and duelunds are a must for 100% performence like a formula 1 car (they dont run on standard unleaded very well)
3.poin to point is great you get to choose the wiring
4.I would't waste my power on sgr amp against my valve amp its like hyundai against formula 1
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 06:02:12 PM
I thought they sounded poor at the hifi show myself Mario.  But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
nothing wrong with the room it was the best room of the show i guess measuring didn't help either in this case i have heard sgr twice so for me its not up to speed

There were no measurements taken in that room kajak.  They were plonked down without any measurements or trial and error.  They are two big and two heavy to be moving around the room to find the best location.

It is ok that you didn't like the speakers kajak, I'm fine with that.  Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.  It just seems like you always have a 'your way' is better than everyone elses way about you.  You come across as a bit of .... sometimes.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 06:03:55 PM
4.I would't waste my power on sgr amp against my valve amp its like hyundai against formula 1

Typical kajak response.  Bravo.

So you were just bullsh!tting about demo'ing the SGR amp?  Thank god.  Because you would have only been doing it for one reason and that is an attempt to validate your ingrained bias ;) 
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 06:07:43 PM
4.I would't waste my power on sgr amp against my valve amp its like hyundai against formula 1

Typical kajak response.  Bravo.

So you were just bullsh!tting about demo'ing the SGR amp?  Thank god.  Because you would have only been doing it for one reason and that is an attempt to validate your ingrained bias ;) 
Yes bullsh!tting all the way heard enough ss to know limitations
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 06:11:02 PM
But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 06:13:09 PM
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses

I thought they all sounded poor mate.  None of the rooms were up to a standard I would be satisfied with.  Some were obviously better than others.  I would not have bought a single thing from the show based on what I heard.  Personally I don't think you would have said it sounded good even if it did (I didn't think they sounded great at the show). 
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 06:15:26 PM
I thought they sounded poor at the hifi show myself Mario.  But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
n

It is ok that you didn't like the speakers kajak, I'm fine with that.  Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.  It just seems like you always have a 'your way' is better than everyone elses way about you.  You come across as a bit of .... sometimes.
Dritz other have used a different approach like bryan and love tube credit given where credit due
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 06:20:49 PM
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses

I thought they all sounded poor mate.  None of the rooms were up to a standard I would be satisfied with.  Some were obviously better than others.  I would not have bought a single thing from the show based on what I heard.  Personally I don't think you would have said it sounded good even if it did (I didn't think they sounded great at the show). 
If i ever hear sgr sound like music you will be the first to know
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozcal on December 29, 2011, 07:39:05 PM
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses

I thought they all sounded poor mate.  None of the rooms were up to a standard I would be satisfied with.  Some were obviously better than others.  I would not have bought a single thing from the show based on what I heard.  Personally I don't think you would have said it sounded good even if it did (I didn't think they sounded great at the show). 
If i ever hear sgr sound like music you will be the first to know
Well Mario , that's an interesting point , you like me have never had SGR in the house so it would be interesting to hear how the sound driven by a cd 94 and kd. We might all end up being surprised.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 07:52:58 PM
Well Mario , that's an interesting point , you like me have never had SGR in the house so it would be interesting to hear how the sound driven by a cd 94 and kd. We might all end up being surprised.
A wise response ;) 

One must have an open mind and not be closed off by their preconceived ideals.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 29, 2011, 07:59:58 PM
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses

I thought they all sounded poor mate.  None of the rooms were up to a standard I would be satisfied with.  Some were obviously better than others.  I would not have bought a single thing from the show based on what I heard.  Personally I don't think you would have said it sounded good even if it did (I didn't think they sounded great at the show). 
If i ever hear sgr sound like music you will be the first to know
Well Mario , that's an interesting point , you like me have never had SGR in the house so it would be interesting to hear how the sound driven by a cd 94 and kd. We might all end up being surprised.
SS won't do what a great valve amp does many tried and none have done it surely after 30+ years in the game you would know that by now
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on December 29, 2011, 09:56:28 PM
I thought they sounded poor at the hifi show myself Mario.  But I'm smart enough not to judge a system based on a hifi show ;)
nothing wrong with the room it was the best room of the show i guess measuring didn't help either in this case i have heard sgr twice so for me its not up to speed

There were no measurements taken in that room kajak.  They were plonked down without any measurements or trial and error.  They are two big and two heavy to be moving around the room to find the best location.

I would question the purpose of putting them in the showroom in the first place. Perhaps that just showed us that the manufacturer didn't really care about how they sounded because look was more important? The excuse that they're too big and heavy is not a good one, they are selling thousands of dollars worth of speakers, surely they could afford a crane or anything that helped to move them around?

Oh yeah, they definitely looked fabulous alright but I thought it was a hifi show where people came to listen and see if there's anything worth to warrant further listening at home. Say for example the Audio Note's system, the system was sounding a bit average however most of us here could tell that there's a big potential there and this for sure warranted further listening at home (for those who can afford it). Plus the AN was HEAVY too to move around!
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
I would question the purpose of putting them in the showroom in the first place. Perhaps that just showed us that the manufacturer didn't really care about how they sounded because look was more important? The excuse that they're too big and heavy is not a good one, they are selling thousands of dollars worth of speakers, surely they could afford a crane or anything that helped to move them around?

A crane, lol, be serious now.  Do you know how long they had to set everything up?  Seriously, do you?  SGR had more gear at the show than anyone else, they didn't have the required time to set them all up optimally.  Personally I was dissapointed that they didn't sound their best.  The MT3FSL's sounded much better at the show than the Illuminators, but again that could just be my bias showing, I'm happy to admit that.  My dad (definitely not an audiophile) turned to me at the show and said, none of these systems sound as good as yours at home.  Now, I'm not trumpet blowing like a lot of audiophiles do (do a search, you will find many examples of it) I'm just pointing out how poor most of the systems at the show sounded.  Sure, I had my favourites at the show, but they were only comparatively good compared to the rest of the rabble.

The point of the show was to increase brand recognition and the show delivered on that front.  Most people (not all) are smart enough to realise that you are never going to get the best audio quality at an audio show.  It is a given.

Oh yeah, they definitely looked fabulous alright but I thought it was a hifi show where people came to listen and see if there's anything worth to warrant further listening at home. Say for example the Audio Note's system, the system was sounding a bit average however most of us here could tell that there's a big potential there and this for sure warranted further listening at home (for those who can afford it). Plus the AN was HEAVY too to move around!

The Audio Notes sounded very ordinary (like everything else at the show).  They were the most expensive system there ($500k +) and I thought they were very disappointing.  They only played safe audiophile music too.  Point being, how did you know they had potential if they sounded average?  I would suggest it was your bias suggesting they had potential.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on December 29, 2011, 10:17:14 PM
If a system can't even play simple music, why would you want it to play complex music? You can tell a system has the potential by listening to quality systems all the time so when you hear rubbish you almost certain can tell straight away that it's indeed rubbish.

Well at least I now know the AN distributor took his time seriously to do research about the room and tried to get his system to sound decent for the show and this tells me a lot that he's SERIOUS about getting a good sounding system. If I want to spend my money, I know which one I would choose.

Edit: The AN system worth $276,200, NOT $500k plus. Sorry for the off topic discussion, this is my last one about the hifi show.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 11:01:54 PM
If a system can't even play simple music, why would you want it to play complex music? You can tell a system has the potential by listening to quality systems all the time so when you hear rubbish you almost certain can tell straight away that it's indeed rubbish.

Well at least I now know the AN distributor took his time seriously to do research about the room and tried to get his system to sound decent for the show and this tells me a lot that he's SERIOUS about getting a good sounding system. If I want to spend my money, I know which one I would choose.

Edit: sorry for the off topic discussion, this is my last one about the hifi show.

That doesn't make any sense at all.  On many fronts.  What are you talking about regarding simple music.  The AN room only played easy simple music yet it sounded poor.  What are you trying to say?

So the AN guy (a self proclaimed 'guru') did some advance research on the room and by your own admission it still sounded poor, yet you know it has potential, how can you say that? 
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on December 29, 2011, 11:14:17 PM
If you cant setup a system at a hifi show dont show it to the public,other managed way better in smaller rooms no excuses

I thought they all sounded poor mate.  None of the rooms were up to a standard I would be satisfied with.  Some were obviously better than others.  I would not have bought a single thing from the show based on what I heard.  Personally I don't think you would have said it sounded good even if it did (I didn't think they sounded great at the show). 
If i ever hear sgr sound like music you will be the first to know
Well Mario , that's an interesting point , you like me have never had SGR in the house so it would be interesting to hear how the sound driven by a cd 94 and kd. We might all end up being surprised.
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 29, 2011, 11:56:57 PM
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.

Sorry, what needs retuning ?
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on December 30, 2011, 12:16:44 AM

heard the amps at the show 10 amps to big speakers and msb running with them over 160k worth sounded like hifi (radio turned up)
no timbre,texture,colour bland and boring
terry you need a valve amp :P

I hear ya - loud and clear!  8) 

Lets see how my new SS beast sounds before I go to a valve power amp.

Recently, one of my tube suppliers were blowing out Svetlana SV572-160 directly heated triodes for $10 a pop.
These are a large, very powerful tube, but easy to drive and would do a nice 25W SET amp (1 tube).

I looked into it a bit deeper and the 572-160 is not really the right 572 for audio apps, too high Mu the lower Mu versions (572-3) are better.

Z
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 12:32:00 AM

 My dad (definitely not an audiophile) turned to me at the show and said, none of these systems sound as good as yours at home.  


[/quote]
Lol your system with sb and integra oh i forgot room treatments solve the problems of sb and a intergra seriously drizt do you think people are just that stupid?????
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 12:37:15 AM
Lol your system with sb and integra oh i forgot room treatments solve the problems of sb and a intergra seriously drizt do you think people are just that stupid?????


kajak at his finest.  You're a top bloke mate  :-X  

And you treat room modes by changing the binding posts on your sub(s), lol.

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 01:06:40 AM
Lol your system with sb and integra oh i forgot room treatments solve the problems of sb and a intergra seriously drizt do you think people are just that stupid?????


kajak at his finest.  You're a top bloke mate  :-X 

And you treat room modes by changing the binding posts on your sub(s), lol.

I can't believe anyone takes you seriously, what a laugh.
Where did you get room modes from????
Try the resolution of timbre
Your young and still have a lot to learn
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 01:18:03 AM
Where did you get room modes from????
Try the resolution of timbre
Your young and still have a lot to learn

I can't find the pearler I was referring to, I will have to dig deeper (if I can be arsed).

But I did find this beauty by you ;)

Quote from: andyr;436035
So how do you deal with (ie. compensate for) your room modes, kajak?
 
Regards,
 
Andy

Quote from: kajak12;436042
resistors,caps,valves i feed my speakers the right combination to suite my room

Quote from: andyr;436059
Mmmm, do you mean you are EQ ing with caps and resistors to tame your room modes (say 200Hz down)?
 
Please, give me the dimensions of your listening room and I will tell you what frequencies are emphasised and what are nulled.
 
Then, you can explain how, with "resistors and caps", you are compensating for these room modes.
 
But I agree with you on the topic that some people spend inordinate amounts on hifi gear and get an inadequate result! ;)  But that's got nothing to do with whether they are using DRC or not.
 
Regards,
 
Andy
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 01:57:31 AM
Where did you get room modes from????
Try the resolution of timbre
Your young and still have a lot to learn

I can't find the pearler I was referring to, I will have to dig deeper (if I can be arsed).

But I did find this beauty by you ;)

Quote from: andyr;436035
So how do you deal with (ie. compensate for) your room modes, kajak?
 
Regards,
 
Andy

Quote from: kajak12;436042
resistors,caps,valves i feed my speakers the right combination to suite my room

Quote from: andyr;436059
Mmmm, do you mean you are EQ ing with caps and resistors to tame your room modes (say 200Hz down)?
 
Please, give me the dimensions of your listening room and I will tell you what frequencies are emphasised and what are nulled.
 
Then, you can explain how, with "resistors and caps", you are compensating for these room modes.
 
But I agree with you on the topic that some people spend inordinate amounts on hifi gear and get an inadequate result! ;)  But that's got nothing to do with whether they are using DRC or not.
 
Regards,
 
Andy
Not beauty! most on this site do what i do tune their system to the room with no hoky poky mics and computers don't care about modes  your on the wrong forum buddy  we use ears
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 02:00:56 AM
Not beauty! most on this site do what i do tune their system to the room with no hoky poky mics and computers don't care about modes  your on the wrong forum buddy  we use ears

LOL.  That post is one for the fridge.  Gold Jerry, Gold.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 02:26:10 AM
Not beauty! most on this site do what i do tune their system to the room with no hoky poky mics and computers don't care about modes  your on the wrong forum buddy  we use ears

LOL.  That post is one for the fridge.  Gold Jerry, Gold.
Get a life drizt go back to sna you fit well in that forum blind leading the blind

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/29163-Stereonet-s-first-saint?p=639458#post639458
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 02:35:51 AM
Get a life drizt go back to sna you fit well in that forum blind leading the blind

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/29163-Stereonet-s-first-saint?p=639458#post639458

You are the one coming out with the gold kajak.  I haven't said any of that crap, it was you.  All one needs to do is give you enough rope and you hang yourself.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozcal on December 30, 2011, 12:43:29 PM
Come on Aaron , this is the KD forum , it's pretty obvious you are just stirring sh!t.
For once I agree with Mario :)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 01:37:44 PM
Come on Aaron , this is the KD forum , it's pretty obvious you are just stirring sh!t.
For once I agree with Mario :)

Mario is innocent in this  :o

Edit. .....
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 03:11:49 PM
Come on Aaron , this is the KD forum , it's pretty obvious you are just stirring sh!t.
For once I agree with Mario :)

Mario is innocent in this  :o

Edit. .....
Drizt first of all i will call a spade a spade when i hear a pair of sgr's speakers make music then i will write about it so far audiomarket place and the hifi show where ordinary.Also if i make a statement about ME amps i can they are average.After all its a forum which i can make such comments if you don't like it #### ### and leave your #### on sna.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 03:13:56 PM
if you don't like it #### ### and leave your #### on sna.

You're an absolute champ mate.  Bravo.

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on December 30, 2011, 05:13:00 PM
Hey  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Come on guys.
Kiss and make up. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Life is short. :o
Passion is good, extremism less so. :-X
Let's all agree to dissagree, it's easier that way. ;D ;D ;D ;D
V ;)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 06:19:29 PM
Hey  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Come on guys.
Kiss and make up. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Life is short. :o
Passion is good, extremism less so. :-X
Let's all agree to dissagree, it's easier that way. ;D ;D ;D ;D
V ;)
With drizt the only way is to delete him,very known troll on audio forums always looking for trouble
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on December 30, 2011, 09:54:38 PM
With drizt the only way is to delete him,very known troll on audio forums always looking for trouble

Just an audio appreciator that likes to search for the truth rather than believing everything that is written.  You do get very upset when people disagree with you Mario.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on December 30, 2011, 11:27:47 PM
With drizt the only way is to delete him,very known troll on audio forums always looking for trouble

Just an audio appreciator that likes to search for the truth rather than believing everything that is written.  You do get very upset when people disagree with you Mario.
My last post to you about this matter read carefully so you understand........
If your looking for the truth you will not find it here most members believe in pixy dust eg:resistors,capacitors,transports,isolation feet,wires,chokes etc change the sound coming from the speakers.Not much really here for you to learn the truth and above all 99.99% is all subjective listening
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on January 01, 2012, 10:34:12 PM
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.

Sorry, what needs retuning ?
I've read many times on SNA that the biggest factor affecting the sound of a system is the room. 

Never really believed it.   But in moving house, and shifting the same gear to a very different room,  my system has gone from great,  to *okay*.   

I've been tweaking, tuning, measuring, shifting, etc, and it's starting to come together. 

Anyone who has heard my system in the new house, hasn't heard it at it's best - no way close.  But i'm not one to turn people away, if i think the system isnt 100%.  Things are starting to come together lately though. I've got the tiger by the tail in regards to the bass (i reckon), and the high freq's have also been tamed.  Not as magical as it was in the last place,  but getting there. I've been listening to the system all night, and am pretty happy.

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on January 01, 2012, 10:40:14 PM
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.

Sorry, what needs retuning ?
I've read many times on SNA that the biggest factor affecting the sound of a system is the room. 

Never really believed it.   But in moving house, and shifting the same gear to a very different room,  my system has gone from great,  to *okay*.   

I've been tweaking, tuning, measuring, shifting, etc, and it's starting to come together. 

Anyone who has heard my system in the new house, hasn't heard it at it's best - no way close.  But i'm not one to turn people away, if i think the system isnt 100%.  Things are starting to come together lately though. I've got the tiger by the tail in regards to the bass (i reckon), and the high freq's have also been tamed.  Not as magical as it was in the last place,  but getting there. I've been listening to the system all night, and am pretty happy.



Good to hear you are getting sorted mate.  I know how a room can be a right royal pain in the arse and others can be magical, so I feel for you.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on January 01, 2012, 10:47:39 PM
Good to hear you are getting sorted mate.  I know how a room can be a right royal pain in the arse and others can be magical, so I feel for you.
This is just standard setup process for any place.    We all go through it.    It took ages to get the system spot on in the last joint.  Hasn't been too bad this time.

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Drizt:) on January 01, 2012, 11:19:04 PM
Good to hear you are getting sorted mate.  I know how a room can be a right royal pain in the arse and others can be magical, so I feel for you.
This is just standard setup process for any place.    We all go through it.    It took ages to get the system spot on in the last joint.  Hasn't been too bad this time.

Good to hear it is not too bad.  Some rooms are much worse than others though.  Only way to fix those rooms are with room treatments and / or EQ.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on January 02, 2012, 04:02:18 AM
I must admit that the statement Kajak makes that his electronic changes influences the acoustical output and thereby helps to solve ( partial) room acoustics is one I fully support.

By practical experience over the years (sorry all on the duch forum but with loads of pics) with changing my room completely for audio I have come to the conclusion that over those same years the effects of changing components as a whole or their parts can directly lead to changing/taking away (some) roomtreatments.

Okay lets not get into silly arguments about eg reflection points or the likes....they are there and deal with it, but for the rest I would not be surprised anymore about (un)expected acoustical effects......by changing eg a cd-transport.

For me I still have to come across an equalizer that does not rob me from my music...I rather live with a NOT ruler flat setup.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 02, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.

Sorry, what needs retuning ?
I've read many times on SNA that the biggest factor affecting the sound of a system is the room. 

Never really believed it.   But in moving house, and shifting the same gear to a very different room,  my system has gone from great,  to *okay*.   

I've been tweaking, tuning, measuring, shifting, etc, and it's starting to come together. 

Anyone who has heard my system in the new house, hasn't heard it at it's best - no way close.  But i'm not one to turn people away, if i think the system isnt 100%.  Things are starting to come together lately though. I've got the tiger by the tail in regards to the bass (i reckon), and the high freq's have also been tamed.  Not as magical as it was in the last place,  but getting there. I've been listening to the system all night, and am pretty happy.


Yes agree, a room does play a huge part in achieving a great musical performance, hence all the great venues for clasical recordings.  I remember having some SL600's which were in my heavily damped lounge, that's carpets, velvet curtains and lossy wallpaper; when I took them into the kitchen, hoolly sh!t batman, the whole sound changed quite dramatically with what appeared to be crisper rendition of the high range and tighter faster bass......................wooooo that was a BIG surprise and got me thinking about room acoustics.

The choice of amp driving the speaker is also a major contibutor and it does not just come down to power levels but damping, speed and clarity as well as all the other Hifi terms we all use, get the amp/speaker match wrong and its all over red rover.  Which brings me to the free field conditions, playing the hifi outdoors can make it sound very good indeed if you have either enough power or efficient speakers, think I have mentioned this before but until you have heard your speakers playing outdoors you have not heard them at their best! :P
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on January 02, 2012, 05:25:27 PM
Andrews (ozmillsy) SGRs driven by a KD and marantz 94 Sounded great, very good indeed, in his old house, unfortuately he has moved, they need to be retuned to the new room.

Sorry, what needs retuning ?
I've read many times on SNA that the biggest factor affecting the sound of a system is the room.  

Never really believed it.   But in moving house, and shifting the same gear to a very different room,  my system has gone from great,  to *okay*.    

I've been tweaking, tuning, measuring, shifting, etc, and it's starting to come together.  

Anyone who has heard my system in the new house, hasn't heard it at it's best - no way close.  But i'm not one to turn people away, if i think the system isnt 100%.  Things are starting to come together lately though. I've got the tiger by the tail in regards to the bass (i reckon), and the high freq's have also been tamed.  Not as magical as it was in the last place,  but getting there. I've been listening to the system all night, and am pretty happy.


Yes agree, a room does play a huge part in achieving a great musical performance, hence all the great venues for clasical recordings.  I remember having some SL600's which were in my heavily damped lounge, that's carpets, velvet curtains and lossy wallpaper; when I took them into the kitchen, hoolly sh!t batman, the whole sound changed quite dramatically with what appeared to be crisper rendition of the high range and tighter faster bass......................wooooo that was a BIG surprise and got me thinking about room acoustics.

The choice of amp driving the speaker is also a major contibutor and it does not just come down to power levels but damping, speed and clarity as well as all the other Hifi terms we all use, get the amp/speaker match wrong and its all over red rover.  Which brings me to the free field conditions, playing the hifi outdoors can make it sound very good indeed if you have either enough power or efficient speakers, think I have mentioned this before but until you have heard your speakers playing outdoors you have not heard them at their best! :P
V
Our speakers playing outdoors. Yes that is interesting,  then you will really know, what is happening.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 02, 2012, 07:53:33 PM

For me I still have to come across an equalizer that does not rob me from my music...I rather live with a NOT ruler flat setup.
If you ever come across one please tell us i have the same experience regarding eq
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on January 02, 2012, 08:40:01 PM
 I remember having some SL600's which were in my heavily damped lounge, that's carpets, velvet curtains and lossy wallpaper; when I took them into the kitchen, hoolly sh!t batman, the whole sound changed quite dramatically with what appeared to be crisper rendition of the high range and tighter faster bass......................wooooo that was a BIG surprise and got me thinking about room acoustics.

That's interesting V.   I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said to me "you can't have enough room treatments" !

I was at a wedding recently, where I was seated at a table next to a muso. He was telling me about his recording studio he built in his home, spent over 100k on the room (not including equipment). Anyway, for his sidewalls he choose to use curtains made from a special acoustic dampening material.  He was pretty adamant that you can't use any old material from spotlight, as it's pot luck what frequencies they are blocking, and what they are letting through.  He used this special stuff that is engineered to trap a very wide band of frequencies.  Anyway, he wanted curtains so that he can close/open them depending on the genre of music he was playing/recording. He preferred to have the curtains open on acoustic recordings, as the recording would sound stale and dry if they were drawn and all reflections were trapped.  His view is, some room excitement was very healthy, as long as there isn't too much bass in the room.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 03, 2012, 12:13:08 AM
Yes Osmilly...Bass is often the biggest problem hence floor to ceiling bass traps. I beleive in the live end / dead end approach but ceiling height and geometry make a huge difference, the higher being the better.  Exciting the room too much results in a nasty bright glarey sound which is easily checked with hand claps.  Placing the speakers so they are different distances from side walls but not the back wall can also help break up egitones and for those that do beleive in the differences cables etc make changing the gauge of the wires feeding the speakers can adjust the extension and bass weight / abundance. ::) ::)

I remember taking a particually heavy guage speaker wire to a HIFI show once, it totally threw the speakers out of balance making them too bass heavy where as with an amp that had high damping - results were very encouraging bringing the usual smug smile. :-X

Your Muso / recording eng is right, some recordings favour the additional reverberance of reflective surfaces but beleive me putting on a gig in a village hall with no absorbtion other than  a few bodies was an unmittigated diaster with reflective echo bouncing around worse than a ping pong ball,  no amount of equalisition could ameilorate this and I had to literally cut the axis of the room to break up the reflection into several sections rather than the main back / front one.  I also agree that the majority of equalisers corrupt the delicate nature of the music signal sort of like the decorilation of the D to A process - it never sounds quite right having been split into 31 bands! :o
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on January 03, 2012, 12:34:06 AM
it never sounds quite right having been split into 31 bands! :o

Sounds familiar....31 bands, been there done that, JUNK!  8)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 03, 2012, 12:39:40 AM
They look like CAR equalisers so built down to a price with nasty op amps and cheap as chips components everywhere! :o :o :o :o :o
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on January 03, 2012, 12:44:26 AM
Correct V! It was state of the art equalisers....20 YEARS AGO!  ;D

I wonder how advance the equalisers are nowadays  :P
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on January 03, 2012, 04:57:55 AM
Very advanced...i had quite an expensive one..on loan..only for my hometheater sub. :o
BAD....Before and after was shocking...I will never ever say there is no music on 80 hz and down....that is unless you leave the equalizer in  :P
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 03, 2012, 11:05:10 AM
Very advanced...i had quite an expensive one..on loan..only for my hometheater sub. :o
BAD....Before and after was shocking...I will never ever say there is no music on 80 hz and down....that is unless you leave the equalizer in  :P
Yes Erick agreed. ;D
I have too used eqs to stop feedback on vocal monitors etc and here they work by cutting the frequencies where feedabck is present but for audio..... :(. well they appear to change the timing and pitch too much with music becoming synthetic and compressed.  Must be all that additional 'standard' (read cheap and cheerfull) componetry inside.  I have recapped all my graphics which helps a bit and where sh#t opamps are in duty replaced them with some OPA's etc.  Cost ahem, if you factor in labour = poor deal all round.  I should add I have graphics from Rane, Technics and Yamaha some of which are fairly expensive, all are third octave types.

If you run the bass only through the eq then a lot less damage will be done as opposed to running the whole signal through it but I am assuming as it was for sub duty only, this was not the case. Room modes become dominante beneath around 70Hz in a reasonably sized room and a bit of eq here can prevent boom.  Incidentley, sub is beneath audibility which means < 17Hz, its just plain bass down to that point IMV.

The deqx from Oz being in the digital domain may do less harm but I have yet to hear this system and if its anything like CD players with quartz crystals to  control timing (and produce jitter) then they have a long way to go before they reach maturity unless fitted with something approaching a Zen clock speaking of which....you have never heard your CD player at it's best unless the clock is of a much higher calibre, gains are extrodinary and quite outwith my experiance of any other single component change and that includes Duelands.............. :o
V ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 03, 2012, 11:11:02 AM
Correct V! It was state of the art equalisers....20 YEARS AGO!  ;D

I wonder how advance the equalisers are nowadays  :P
Has anyone got the DEQX so can speak from experiance? ::) ::)
Graphics are still the same from what I can see. :-X
The newer digital gear for consumers are all built down to a price so can sound very "plastic".
Intelligent placing of speakers along with selected interconnects and speaker wire can ameliorate a lot of woes without recourse to brute force measures which is what I consider eqs are for in most instances. :(
V ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on January 03, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
I have too used eqs to stop feedback on vocal monitors etc and here they work by cutting the frequencies where feedabck is present but for audio..... :(. well they appear to change the timing and pitch too much with music becoming synthetic and compressed.  Must be all that additional 'standard' (read cheap and cheerfull) componetry inside.  I have recapped all my graphics which helps a bit and where sh#t opamps are in duty replaced them with some OPA's etc.  Cost ahem, if you factor in labour = poor deal all round.  I should add I have graphics from Rane, Technics and Yamaha some of which are fairly expensive, all are third octave types.


Any live performance on e decent PA will be going through stereo 31 band graphic.

For PA, try a Klark Teknik (old one) with inductors inside or a White.

Further to the above, 99% of recording will have been through some sort of equalisation whether it be in the recording stage
are the mastering stage.

Recently repaired one of these:  http://www.mil-media.com/nseq-2.html  and it sounded pretty darn good.

WRT normal opamp based graphics, they can be made very transparent but need best opamps, class A bias, good
power supplies, components etc. I don't know any pro graphics that have all this. They always use 5532 / TL072.

cheers

T
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on January 03, 2012, 08:36:32 PM

Has anyone got the DEQX so can speak from experience
V ;D
[/quote]

Yes I had the DEQX somewhere around 2004 as a try out on my U-571 sub (homebuilt see topic) with a 1000 Watt Carlsbro amplifier with Magnum van den Hul speaker cable  and a Denon HT Receiver and Panasonic Bluray player, the saddest part was that I lost a lot of dynamics once that machine was connected.

EDIT SORRY GUYS checked it out MADE A HUGE MISTAKE AND MIXED IT  WITH THE DCX2496....bear with me it was 7 years ago  :D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 04, 2012, 01:19:42 AM
Denon HT and pana blue ray????? :-\
Hmmmm. Did you have really good dynamics in the first place? No dissrespect meant. ;D
Carlsboro power amps are used by disco's mainly, do they have good grip and dynamics? ::)
You have compared the before and after so how where you feeding the woofer before the arrival of the DEQX?
From memory (never good) there has been several upgrades to the early DEQX so maybe it's better at doing dynamics now.
Were you using the active crossover feature of the device to bring the 'sub' woofer up beneath the main speakers?

Subs should be constained to <50 hz IMV and with a decent main pair of speakers< 30hz. :o
I am struggling to think of what in the lower bass range that has real dynamics, kettle drums are above the grumbly stuff and organ whilst being powerful I'd hardly describe as being dynamic in the same way as a rim shot etc but that's just my limited understanding.  Now slam and weight are totally different and I could understand a reduction in speed and weight which some might call dynamics but I judge you better versed than this.  You have obviously moved on from the HT system with your main music replay system which we all here admire as an act of dedication to the art.  And yes most of us understand losing sleep over some new pure silver output transformers, my mouth usually goes very dry in the anticipation! :'(
V :D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on January 04, 2012, 03:58:09 AM
 :D...2004 remember...building my dedicated HT

The Carlsbro easily outperformed my Krell KSA 50 when hooked to my sub.
I guess no substitute for cubic inches... 8) ..50 Watts against 1000 Watts ...ahum
No problem nowadays I use the Krell on the Fronts.

My U-571 Home-brewed sub is very dynamic if I may be so moddest.

Specs:

woofer kevlar Focal 15k8711 15 Inch.

poort Aluminium 15 cm dia bij 50 cm length (20 Hz)
cabinet 80 cm x  70 cm x  60 cm.
weight 275 kg.
content 220 liter netto.

walls MDF 22 mm x Sand 22 mm x MDF 22 mm= plm. 7 cm thick
woofer (launch)platform 8 cm thick Downfire

cross-over:   80 Hz - how low can you go
(one day my wife came upstairs shouting that the glasswork downstairs came out off the cupboard... 8)

Anyway to put your mind at rest  :D
At the moment I do have a Lexicon and an Oppo together with (original) Avalons with 8 main amplifiers quite a sick arrangement but a lot of fun watching films...

BTW I just realised how off topic so feel free to put it elswhere  :-[
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: treblid on January 04, 2012, 11:24:55 AM
Wow... That is huge!! And yet so beautiful!

Nicely done.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 04, 2012, 05:54:12 PM
What only one 15" for generating bass.............. :-X
No wonder you needed a lot more drive from the amp. :o
With bass units you are generally better employing multiples as if they need to excurt enough to easily be visible doing so then they will not display the same speed and lack of hangover giving rise to the lack of dynamics.  Also whilst I am at it woofers facing the floor never worked for me as they slow down the wavefront to an unaceptable degree for me! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean, any less and you cannot move sufficient air to create a realistic wavefront unless you employ horn loaded drivers. :'(  The Kevlar bass unit you employ may not be the fastest in the focal range either.  I learnt from my Meridain actives that 4 x 5 " kef units actively driven per side can provide fast bass down to resonance with music and that larger bass units (such as 18" drivers) tend to sound slow in comparison.  I have 16 such units and when brought in beneath JBL kick cabs slows down the sound despite having the best BL of any driver of that size!

Thinking about this further you are deploying this arrangement for HT use so it's all the grumbly stuff in movies as opposed to music so it will be less critical audio wise.  Have you tried simply turning the cabinet on its side to have the driver facing forward? ;) ;)

To leave this on a positve note the cabinet with sand damping all sounds very good. ;D  MDF is heavy, did you brace this internally too?
With bass, energy is wasted flapping walls but you know all this due to your other sterling designs. ;D  What velocity does the port reach at the box tuning and what is the final Q?  ??? Any lossy damping internally will also slow down the sound.  ::) Do you have suspended wooden floors or concrete?  Tuning to such a low frequency may also impact upon the speed of the final outcome, sometimes an IB can be prefferential in speed terms for such LF duty.  All IMV (SNA) but based upon self builds and experiance.  Final point, Class D amps, the new boys on the bock have very high damping factors and grip on the dirver and can enhance the speed / transient delivary of the driver making them quite suitable for low bass drivers even when ported.
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on January 04, 2012, 06:19:43 PM
Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean

4 x 15" drivers minimum!?!  :o Yeah....I have to agree with this, love those Altecs! I just wish I had bigger room to put them in  ???
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on January 04, 2012, 07:49:44 PM
I see your point in using a class D amp and it will definitely be on my list once this breaks down.
I use a completely different view in my HT, such a vision I will never have "downstairs".
Although one of the simularities is that I am not especially a bass lover. I find films a whole different ballgame so I approach it different.

 This sub is a nice extension of my Avalons and only to be noticeable with an explosion or other LFE
effect. I simply do not recall all the specifics anymore. Every now and than I do change something in my HT but my real passion stays " downstairs"  with audio.

Btw
I do have a second subwoofer in the back dedicated for my sides so I can use them full range, e.g. for audio I myself would never use a separate subwoofer.
I also build a center (my very first homemade speaker....since what I wanted did not exist...hahahaha) which is nearly full range (1.85 cm long) and driven by a dedicated OTL, all meaning to say that for my personal taste it all does move a lot (enough)  of air when needed  :D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 04, 2012, 08:44:40 PM
Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean

4 x 15" drivers minimum!?!  :o Yeah....I have to agree with this, love those Altecs! I just wish I had bigger room to put them in  ???
ahhh yes i remember that sound of beauty straight from vinyl  ;) ;)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on February 11, 2012, 01:10:32 AM
http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DA08_300b_Main_frame.htm

Tube monoblocks for less than $1k a pair! Extremely tempted....
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on February 11, 2012, 02:33:38 AM
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on February 11, 2012, 02:57:20 AM
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation. This is a dream come true for anyone who wants to get tube monoblocks at reasonable price. Btw, you might want to get a pair for your (another) birthday presents  ;)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on February 11, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation.
This is a good point W.   Although it would be nice if the foundations had a fraction more space,  it's quite a compact looking unit.

The first mod to make, would be to bypass the volume pot, I reckon.

These could be suitable for a future project I'm contemplating.

BTW;  I was up at SV's and he pointed out the amp you're building.   :o  :o :o  It's a freaking monster dude !!   ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on February 11, 2012, 10:04:33 PM
I was up at SV's and he pointed out the amp you're building.   :o  :o :o  It's a freaking monster dude !!   ;D

Thanks for the compliment  ;D

It's just a mock up model Oz, it'll be pretty when I get it into a properly design chassis  :)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on February 11, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation. This is a dream come true for anyone who wants to get tube monoblocks at reasonable price. Btw, you might want to get a pair for your (another) birthday presents  ;)
Ha ha, yes I already have an AudioNote 300b amp although it's a stero chassis.................Now if I really wanted to spend some serious dosh I would be battering down Yoshino's door for some of those magnificent MANLY black racks of power cinema amps, druel gibber sob  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on February 12, 2012, 12:35:10 AM
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
Monarchy audio !!!!!!!

I had the ss amps in perth a few years ago from mike lenehan for demo crap crap crap so is the monarchy audio dac its crap crap i hope they know what to do with valves with ss they are not recommended
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on February 12, 2012, 03:04:59 AM
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
Monarchy audio !!!!!!!

I had the ss amps in perth a few years ago from mike lenehan for demo crap crap crap so is the monarchy audio dac its crap crap i hope they know what to do with valves with ss they are not recommended
Interesting, exactly what was the rest of the equipment used in conjuction with the MA stuff? It would help to arrive at a more balanced view.  Surely not the KDAC with the MA stuff?!?!  Synergy rules.
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Jehuty on March 03, 2012, 02:11:00 AM
Tamura M75 monoblocks WE300B: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290677940927&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on March 03, 2012, 10:17:22 AM
Tamura M75 monoblocks WE300B: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290677940927&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123

Nice amps - but expensive, I have no idea what they retailed for.

Looking at the schematic - no caps for signal coupling, well, just 1, under V1 cathode, but tons of iron :)

I bet they sound good.

 
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: tuyen on March 03, 2012, 10:23:00 AM
Hi Terry,

Any experience of thoughts of Audio Tekne gear?

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?bShowUnpublished=&hArticle=518&PageOfArticle=0 (http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?bShowUnpublished=&hArticle=518&PageOfArticle=0)

Cheers!
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on March 04, 2012, 12:26:10 AM
Hi Terry,

Any experience of thoughts of Audio Tekne gear?

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?bShowUnpublished=&hArticle=518&PageOfArticle=0 (http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?bShowUnpublished=&hArticle=518&PageOfArticle=0)

Cheers!

Sorry, not much to go on. They sure look nice :)

The Tamura had a schematic in which the signal path was very simple / direct, no caps and their transformers are very well regarded.

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on March 12, 2012, 11:55:26 PM
http://tubeguru.hu/audio_tube_amplif...amplifier.html

heaps of eye candy :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on March 13, 2012, 02:59:24 AM
http://tubeguru.hu/audio_tube_amplif...amplifier.html

heaps of eye candy :D :D :D :D

Crazy $hit - did u see the turntable vid, holy smokes  ;D

Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on March 13, 2012, 08:39:46 PM
http://tubeguru.hu/audio_tube_amplif...amplifier.html

heaps of eye candy :D :D :D :D

Crazy $hit - did u see the turntable vid, holy smokes  ;D


love it nothing like a european tlc terry
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on March 14, 2012, 12:38:31 AM
http://platetronics.org/44-vactron-kt88-se.html

zenelectro more money in amps then repairs
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: zenelectro on March 15, 2012, 11:19:12 AM
http://platetronics.org/44-vactron-kt88-se.html

zenelectro more money in amps then repairs

You can say that again.  >:(

Time to give up SS.  :P

Title: ongaku you tube
Post by: kajak12 on August 15, 2012, 09:22:05 PM
great vid 10kg of silver wire used in the amp (stevenvalve will love this)
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PkYZOqWAh24
Title: Re: ongaku you tube
Post by: stevenvalve on August 16, 2012, 02:07:12 AM
great vid 10kg of silver wire used in the amp (stevenvalve will love this)
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PkYZOqWAh24
I have heard the ongaku tube amplifier a few times, and i must say (overrated). For a start using a 211 power tube, designed for radar is not a great choice. They can be clean and analytical, and that is not a good match with silver internals.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Tweedle12 on August 16, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
I really enjoyed that Kondo video. Haven't had the privilege to hear high end Kondo amps though, but was just wondering whether a vintage Radford can compare at any level - have an original, unrestored STA15 Series 3 here that seems fine to me?
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on August 16, 2012, 02:21:27 PM
I really enjoyed that Kondo video. Haven't had the privilege to hear high end Kondo amps though, but was just wondering whether a vintage Radford can compare at any level - have an original, unrestored STA15 Series 3 here that seems fine to me?
I have just finished hotting up a Radford STA15 Series 3 amp with SHINKOH Tantalum resistors, Jensen 220uf caps, Vintage Amperex EL34 metal base, non cage Mullard EF86, RCA 6U8, Mullard metal base GZ34,  all the tubes are the best i could find, Eichman Speaker posts and RCA sockets. Rewired the critical sections in the amp with cloth solid core copper wire and Goertz Speaker cable cut in half, and finally 4 Duelund .47 copper foil caps. It sounds goooooood.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: crazikid on August 16, 2012, 04:43:48 PM
Sounds  like this amp will sing like a angel!
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozmillsy on August 16, 2012, 06:50:11 PM
It does.   ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on August 16, 2012, 07:41:38 PM
It does.   ;D
return it to the place of purchase for a full refund plus 10%
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on August 16, 2012, 08:03:56 PM
I really enjoyed that Kondo video. Haven't had the privilege to hear high end Kondo amps though, but was just wondering whether a vintage Radford can compare at any level - have an original, unrestored STA15 Series 3 here that seems fine to me?
I have just finished hotting up a Radford STA15 Series 3 amp with SHINKOH Tantalum resistors, Jensen 220uf caps, Vintage Amperex EL34 metal base, non cage Mullard EF86, RCA 6U8, Mullard metal base GZ34,  all the tubes are the best i could find, Eichman Speaker posts and RCA sockets. Rewired the critical sections in the amp with cloth solid core copper wire and Goertz Speaker cable cut in half, and finally 4 Duelund .47 copper foil caps. It sounds goooooood.

Unfortunately someone named ozmillsy swiped it. I did not even have time to run it in.
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: tuyen on August 16, 2012, 09:29:18 PM
That modded Radford amp sounds tastey. Enjoy ozmillsy!


What are you guys thoughts about this melody?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERB-Melody-Astro-Black-22-i2a3-NEW-/271034999353?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3f1af1e239 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERB-Melody-Astro-Black-22-i2a3-NEW-/271034999353?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3f1af1e239)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on August 16, 2012, 10:36:19 PM
That modded Radford amp sounds tastey. Enjoy ozmillsy!


What are you guys thoughts about this melody?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERB-Melody-Astro-Black-22-i2a3-NEW-/271034999353?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3f1af1e239 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERB-Melody-Astro-Black-22-i2a3-NEW-/271034999353?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3f1af1e239)
mcb had a melody he sold it got a real amp mingda
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: tuyen on August 16, 2012, 10:41:40 PM
Yeah I remember Murray had the top of range Melody preamp!  Sometimes I wish he still had it, would love to try it on my system now :)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: ozcal on August 17, 2012, 12:26:21 PM
Yeah I remember Murray had the top of range Melody preamp!  Sometimes I wish he still had it, would love to try it on my system now :)

I agree T , I thought the Melody was a great pre. Had it in my system a couple of times and felt it was an upgrade form the Supratek as it was at the time.
You didn't like the Melody, Mario?
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on August 17, 2012, 09:42:52 PM
Yeah I remember Murray had the top of range Melody preamp!  Sometimes I wish he still had it, would love to try it on my system now :)

I agree T , I thought the Melody was a great pre. Had it in my system a couple of times and felt it was an upgrade form the Supratek as it was at the time.
You didn't like the Melody, Mario?
Nah no melody for me it was missing melody needed work imho
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: mcb on August 18, 2012, 06:20:43 PM
Yeah I remember Murray had the top of range Melody preamp!  Sometimes I wish he still had it, would love to try it on my system now :)


I also thought the Melody was a great pre.  I bought the MingDa to replace a WFS class D power amp.  As the MingDa could be run as either a power amp or integrated, I was able to run it with and without the Melody pre.  I actually thought the system sounded better with the Melody in (no mods to the MingDa at that stage), however I decided to sell the Melody to: i) get some money back out of the system; and ii) to reduce the box count.
Title: Re: great amps on the web LOOK AND BUY IT NOW!!!
Post by: kajak12 on August 22, 2012, 11:21:18 PM
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/44668-fs-weston-acoustics-%e2%80%9ctime-machine%e2%80%9d-2a3-push-pull-custom/

PIO CAPS (RUSSIAN ABOUT $8 ON EBAY) WOW
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 12, 2013, 01:32:59 AM
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2012/09/dagostino-momentum-preamplifier.html
don agestino
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: kajak12 on January 12, 2013, 01:35:22 AM
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/robert_koda_takumi_k10.htm
$31k for pre anyone
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on January 12, 2013, 01:37:34 AM
Hmmmm, my little eye still spies what appears to be standard 3 leg voltage regulators, now if you want me to take this seriously............................................
And where is the AC voltage transformer, outboard no doubt.  :-X
V
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: springcreek on January 22, 2013, 01:42:59 PM
This should have great timber  :P
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Erik van Voorst on February 11, 2013, 06:19:51 AM
Hmmmm, my little eye still spies what appears to be standard 3 leg voltage regulators, now if you want me to take this seriously............................................
And where is the AC voltage transformer, outboard no doubt.  :-X
V

At the moment very into tube voltage regulation...once heard you never want to touch a transistor or a zener in your life..it simply robs you from listening to music...full stop  8) :o ;D
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: vitavoxdude on September 10, 2014, 01:03:09 AM
JUst finished changing out the coupling caps in my Cary V12 amp.  I have been meaning to do it for almost 6 months or more.  Now they are finally in.  A fiddly job as the original caps were much smaller if an inch longer.  Lifting the 80 odd pound Cary is a task in its self these days.  So after triming the long legs of the caps to length and clearing out the mounting eyelets the wire ends were formed into a mechanical joint prior to using the electric glue  (solder) for hopefully a gas tight seal.

Double check insides for any snipped off pieces of wire then back on with the base plate.  Hook up all connectors, throw the mains switch and allow heaters to stabilise and then the B+ and ....................silence which was a huge relief.  I have to say soldering Duelands makes me sweat more than any other cap.

So what are they like, well right off the bat they are much clearer than what went before them, its possible to discern individual clapping now in an audience and the strands of music stand out more without the previous blurring.  All in all a nice if expensive uplift which I can recommend.  Did I mention the price, no, well that's best left not to dwell on for too long, ouch comes to mind but it faded from memory as I bought them last year.

Below is the picture of the two caps for comparison, the Dueland soundly thrashes the standard cap and kicks sand into its face gloating, you've got to love these pieces of art because that's what they can bring as many others on the forum (particularly Mario and SV) have attested to.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: Tuyen on September 14, 2015, 02:31:01 PM
Thoughts on this amp?

(http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/252075142917?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: stevenvalve on September 14, 2015, 09:23:20 PM
No picture tuyen
Title: Re: great amps on the web
Post by: omodo on September 14, 2015, 09:42:15 PM
this one?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/252075142917?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&amp;ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT