The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Amplification (Pre/Power) => Topic started by: bhobba on February 15, 2011, 11:48:14 AM
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Hi Guys
I found a product the really piqued my interest - the Truth Pre Amp:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/15/152892.html
It is supposed to be just as transparent as a light-speed but with an immeasurably high input impedance and an output impedance of a couple of ohms. A guy here in Aus has one and evidently will be sending it to Tuyen a bit down the line. He believes it is better than a Light-speed and a Burson Buffer.
Anyway my interest is sufficiently piqued I have ordered one so watch out for what the usual cadre around my way thinks when it arrives. It may be just the thing to get the best out the Killer Dac for you guys that have one.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
That would be me. Good on you for ordering a unit, You will enjoy it
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May be it's just me but the thing is butt ugly ;D. Now I realise apperance isn't important to everyone but with attractive cases available from China for a few bucks ,even if the retial went up to $1000 surely this would help sales
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I want the truth and nothing but the truth!! must try one against the david slagle intact audio autoformer volume controller modules im using at the moment :)
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It is supposed to be just as transparent as a light-speed
hey bill the most transparent pre amp i know off is stevenvalve's is so transparent you cant see it :D
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May be it's just me but the thing is butt ugly ;D. Now I realise apperance isn't important to everyone but with attractive cases available from China for a few bucks ,even if the retial went up to $1000 surely this would help sales
I agree, it is pretty ugly....doesn't seem to be that uncommon for the early units of these type of things to be in plain cases and then a change made if production ramps up though??
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I agree, it is pretty ugly....doesn't seem to be that uncommon for the early units of these type of things to be in plain cases and then a change made if production ramps up though??
Yea that's pretty common. Right now Ed of the Horne Shoppe hand makes each one. That's because demand is far from great. That may change if it is as good as advertised. Gamve has one and he seems pretty impressed - saying it is better than a Light-speed and Burson Buffer. That's the exact reason I got one to check out. Evidently Gamve is going to lend his to Tuyen to check out. I think between all these guys looking into it exactly what the go is will be found out rather quickly. If a lot of orders result the aesthetics will probably be improved but the cost may go up - personally though if that happens I will be glad I got in early and saved money - butt ugly or not.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill , it;s just a personal thing.I lived through a period ,back in the UK with lots of very ugly boxes that sounded just great.
These day's I want my music room to look as good as it sounds even if I have to recase a great sounding product.
I in no way wish to undermine what is potentially an amazing sounding product.
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Hey T ;D
You want the truth, you can't handle the truth (tee hee). Most do not like a pure sound unadulterated in any way. Re read that again, yes that's what I said. Give most an exact replica of the origonal and they think it sounds thin and a bit lifeless, what do you mean you don't agree, have you done a direct test of recording of a piano live and then played back clean as best you can......? No did not think so, well you'd be in for a surprise. Martin has quite a few recordings of ruiened pianos, have a listen some time.
This 'newest - latest - greatest' TRUTH pre amp appears to be hype, hyped by those wishing to sell it, of course I am always willing to be proved wrong but many are going to be led by the nose here. This sounds like the class D amp kings new clothes all over again. For those who think that a 20K system is a reference, well sorry to dissapoint you but you only have a snap shot of a true reference system (IMHO). :o T has spent more than that on drivers alone so should be something special when completed. ;)
V
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You want the truth, you can't handle the truth (tee hee). Most do not like a pure sound unadulterated in any way. Re read that again, yes that's what I said. Give most an exact replica of the origonal and they think it sounds thin and a bit lifeless, what do you mean you don't agree, have you done a direct test of recording of a piano live and then played back clean as best you can......? No did not think so, well you'd be in for a surprise. Martin has quite a few recordings of ruiened pianos, have a listen some time. This 'newest - latest - greatest' TRUTH pre amp appears to be hype, hyped by those wishing to sell it, of course I am always willing to be proved wrong but many are going to be led by the nose here. This sounds like the class D amp kings new clothes all over again. For those who think that a 20K system is a reference, well sorry to dissapoint you but you only have a snap shot of a true reference system (IMHO). :o T has spent more than that on drivers alone so should be something special when completed. ;)
There is a distinct possibility it could be a fizzer but what would life be if you never took a chance?
As for a reference system I will put a Killer Dac or PDX Level 2, a Leben 300XS, ML3 Reference and Ribbontek cabling against anything at any price and it is not much more than $20K - maybe $25K. But of course it won't prove anything because personal preference comes into it a lot. Mario for example did not like the Mac 501's Mike uses - he prefers his amp and VAC's. However Mike Lenehan did not agree - he thought the VAC's may have been a little better than the Mac's - but not by much. I have compared the Leben to the 501's and prefer the Leben - very transparent and organic to my ears. But IMHO that $25K system will be up there with the best at any price to the point where it is mostly personal preference. Of course - IMHO.
Thanks
Bill
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"There is a distinct possibility it could be a fizzer but what would life be if you never took a chance?"
On The other hand it could well be an absolute bargain. I like mine for a pre with no gain it smokes everything else
I've ever have heard including many so called "latest and greatest" items with considerably higher price tags. As for
being hype, who gives a toss everybody who manufactures things tries to sell them or what is the point.
I agree with Vita some marketing people get carried away but it was not clever advertising that led me to this product.
I was looking at going back to a passive pre (a volume pot put at the end of your dac or the input of your power amp
is still a passive pre in my book) but convinced myself that this was still not what I was after. I had good results previously
using a passive. But only with analogue inputs, the digital stuff never did sound right. I started looking at buffers and
lightspeed type volume controls in an attempt to get good impedance matching and a good sounding attenuator. I tripped
over the truth product searching for buffers and then found it had everything I was looking for in the one product at a
very reasonable price.
I have lived with this item for some time now and am yet to find a system that it does not improve significantly. It has no
gain so your source needs to be able to drive your power amps. The volume control works only over approximately 30%
of the pots rotation (in my system) which is not ideal but you do get used to it. All in all it is a good home built product
dressed in Thongs, shorts and a T shirt by a small manufacturer. If was manufactured by a so called top end manufacturer
in a pretty box it would cost $10,000.00
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I like the fact that it has inbuilt buffers.
I HATE the fact that the Lightspeed doesnt, yes I know George wanted the simplest device possible, but without the buffers the Lightspeed is just so limiting in what it can be used with. Really gives me the Shiezers !!!!!
I'd love to give this device a try, and compare it to the LS+Burson combo.
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On The other hand it could well be an absolute bargain. I like mine for a pre with no gain it smokes everything else I've ever have heard including many so called "latest and greatest" items with considerably higher price tags. I have lived with this item for some time now and am yet to find a system that it does not improve significantly. It has no gain so your source needs to be able to drive your power amps. The volume control works only over approximately 30% of the pots rotation (in my system) which is not ideal but you do get used to it. All in all it is a good home built product dressed in Thongs, shorts and a T shirt by a small manufacturer. If was manufactured by a so called top end manufacturer in a pretty box it would cost $10,000.00
Of course I think you are more than likely correct which is why I will be forking out my dosh. I can understand jaded doubters - sometimes I feel like that myself. But I have found glowing reports like the above, which are in fact not that common, are rarely far off the mark.
Thanks
Bill
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I like the fact that it has inbuilt buffers. I HATE the fact that the Lightspeed doesnt, yes I know George wanted the simplest device possible, but without the buffers the Lightspeed is just so limiting in what it can be used with. Really gives me the Shiezers !!!!! I'd love to give this device a try, and compare it to the LS+Burson combo.
Absolutely. Hope I can get mine to you once we have checked it out up here.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Truth front with a Naska 100W power amp built in the one box...now there is food for thought.
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Thanks for the replies guys ;D
I was hoping this would stir a little bit, the K-DAC with a good transport will indeed stand up well to all those overpriced 'hyped' devices sold via glossy magazines but if this retailed via the usual 'hi fi saloons' it would be 50K's worth so straight away above the limit mentioned for a 'reference system' starting point. Agreed, personal taste makes a huge difference as we are not all classically trained musicians but - being of the hi fi fraternity we should all recognise a >100K system for some merits even if it does not fulfil all our own prejudices.
IMHO it takes years of listening to a lot of different designs to work out what jells together really well and light the blue touch paper. There are so many choices that without the banked experience of having lived with a range of systems it’s like bypassing the doctor and treating yourself………. ::)
Going back to the new 'passive pre' impedances makes such a huge difference here getting them wrong will cause a different outcome and not always what you'd expect. I have tried switched attenuators with VSRJ's, Holco's etc, digital ladder fed devices and tapped transformers, they all have their shortcomings (although usually less than a lot of transistor pre's) and initially one is drawn to the additional detail discerned; these come at a price usually, musicality, pace, bass drive all seem to be affected (IMO). I am not saying that it will not work and the buffer stage will go a long way to overcome some of these issues, what the hell - give it a go especially if it’s on a sale or return basis minus postage! I did note in another forum that a respondent mentioned building you own and saving several hundred dollars at the same time, this way it does not have to be ‘butt ugly’!
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Truth front with a Naska 100W power amp built in the one box...now there is food for thought.
You read my mind - thats the exact use for it. Although my PDX has a built in lightspeed. Interesting to see how it compares to that.
Thanks
Bill
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Although my PDX has a built in lightspeed. Interesting to see how it compares to that.
Do you know if the PDX is doing any buffering? What is the output impedance of the PDX? (you might not know, but can you ask the designer)
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Do you know if the PDX is doing any buffering? What is the output impedance of the PDX? (you might not know, but can you ask the designer)
Evidently it goes straight from the valve output stage to the lightspeed just like Georges device does. Don't know the output impedance but I have to say it sounds very transparent feeding the MAC's or Leben which are the two amps I have heard it with. Next time I am down that way I will check on the exact output impedance. Interesting to see how it compares to the Truth when I get it. Like you I prefer buffering.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Guys
Just read the following on the ML1 Ultra thread 'Tuyen's ultras were fantastic with the truth and the RM10, mine should sound just as good with a bit more running in.'
Seems Tuyen has got the 'Truth' and he and others have heard it. I have ordered mine and it should be arriving in a few weeks. But I would still be interested in what others think. OK guys nows the time for the truth about the Truth ;D. Ok I know comedy is a serious business and should be left the professionals - but hey its Sunday and I am felling relaxed.
Thanks
Bill
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Hooked the truth pre backup with the RM10. Now the ultra's are really starting to sing this is prolly the best sounding system I have ever owned :)
Bill you are going to be a very happy camper soon.
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Congratz on your new preamp gamve. From what I read on the net, it could be the most transparent pre available at the moment. Do you know if there's an option for second output? I am looking for two outputs pre as my future system would probably use two amps.
Cheers,
William
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Hi William,
My truth already has two sets of outputs. One set for main amp and one set for the plate amps in the sub woofers.
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Awesome, thanks! Exactly what I've been looking for :)
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Bill,
Has your pre turned up yet? Busting to get your opinion on the SQ.
Cheers
Graham
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Has your pre turned up yet? Busting to get your opinion on the SQ
Not yet. As far as I can tell Ed has not even started building it. Evidently he has something called 'Hornfest' (love the name) to get out of the way first. You don't expect anything to happen with these small guys in a hurry do you? I have been waiting on some Spirit SE Speaker's from Bob Smith over at Aether Audio for nearly 6 months - and they were supposed to only have two hours work to complete them. Still having been down to Mike Lenehans quite a few times over the last year or so I know the pressures those guys face and don't feel any need to push them beyond a polite inquiry on its status every now and then.
Just after writing this got an email from Ed - he has started working on them now so they should be finished soon.
Thanks
Bill
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Still very keen to compare one of these Truth's to my Intact Audio AVC! Hope I have the opportunity to one day ;)
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have you experimented with re-stacking the laminations on your AVC yet? curious to hear your findings.. the 160H was probably about perfect for you old source, but the new DAC might be better suited to a lower inductance?
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Hey omodo,
Will get back to u on that one! Haven't had chance to play around with restacking the autoformers. True that the dddacs output Z is <100ohm compared to ~3Kohm with the kdac. I've currently lent out the avc to a mate and just using a TKD 100K pot at the moment(great pot but still slightly veiled compared to the avc).
Gotta love DIY tweakable components! :)
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Hi Guys
My Truth has arrived. Have it in my system right now and it is utterly transparent. Last night I heard it on Mikes reference system and his experienced ears also confirms it is utterly transparent. As an aside heard it on the latest prototye ML2's (it probably fair to actually call it the production version). In that system I couldn't detect any increase in detail etc - but then again we didn't listen to it for long. In my system however I can detect detect an increase in detail 100% for sure. Without doubt IMHO if you need a pre-amp you can buy this with 100% confidence and know it will not degrade the signal in any way and probably give increased detail. Gamve is right - this thing is stupid good and a no brainer.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Guys
Been listening to it a good while now and definitely more detail and bass coming through - at least I think so anyway. Now listening to some Susan Boyle and have noticed without the Truth Susan's voice is pristine - unnaturally pristine in fact. But with the Truth it is more earthy and breathy - more naturally sounding. However is this a very small amount of noise coming from the Truth or is it actually more detail? What do people think?
Especially interested in what Gmave thinks since he has one and will send a PM to him as well. But of course interested in what anyone thinks. I do prefer the Truth version though - it sounds a bit more natural.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill, willing to send it down WA way sometime in the future, for a check out? :D
It should work optimally on every system since one no need to worry about any impedance mismatches.
It is quite pricey though..
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Hi Tuyen
Just saw your post - sorry I didn't respond sooner. Happy to send it on over so you, Mario and the other guys out your way can check it out once John Darko has finished his review and Ozmilsy has had a chance to check it out.
Don't agree its pricey though - I think its stupid good value.
I have done some more listening to it and have a few more observations to post but will do that shortly - probably tomorrow or the next day - I bit tired right now and want to relax listening to a bit of TV.
Thanks
Bill