Could you send us a link to the advertising blurb and some images please? ;D ;D
V ;)
Yes they are stupidly expensive and convincing my better half that we could put them on the home loan took some weeks of me being the perfect man but to my delight I'm very happy with the result...of the cables.
I guess at that level the cables are components in themselves. Many expensive components sound like sh!te as do many expensive cables.
Right on the money Zen ;D and closely aligns with my view on the 'shirt salesman' pricing bling attracts. This forum is not about how much disposable income you have but about getting quality results with the help of others knowledge and experiences. SNA is the place for such bling.
I used to retail as a manufacturer interconnects and speaker cables and can confirm most are using off the shelf parts with a posh jacket around them. Mark ups can be astonishing! VDH cables are an exception WRT parts.
V ;)
Nelson Pass has a pretty funny anecdote in his amplifier user manuals which goes something like:
"good cables are important but try not to spend more on your cables than you did on the amp!"
I had a good chuckle on that one, :)
Seriously though, I think Nathans comment of 'stupid expensive' is more an indication of his healthy sense of values WRT fitting the cost of hi fi into your life whilst maintaining
a sense of balance with family and other commitments.
It's not really the place to talk nuts and bolts $ comparisons, however the entire clock upgrade was a small fraction of that figure.
The whole spirit of this website originally encouraged exchange of ideas and information for hi end enthusiasts to get great sound without spending huge money.
I have clear memories of Steven and others coming from the world of stratospheric cable prices, Mpingo room tuning devices etc etc. and shifting to an entirely refreshing approach of
do-it-yourself, get better results for less money whilst being technically guided by a few of us propeller heads ! We all learned and and had a lot of fun along the way.
You can certainly grab those cables back and I'm sure he will miss them but this is the age old hi end theme - the same can be said for the clock and the .... fill in the dots.
Craig - why don't you see if you can come up with a speaker cable that has similar performance to these for reasonable cost.
IME all these esoteric cables are made from pretty readily available materials but the accumulated margins on them are not insignificant from the time they walk
out Eichmanns door and in to to the customers. I think this is entirely possible and I'm pretty confident you could do it.
That is more in line with the spirit of this website and it's contributors!
Z
Fair enough but 3K AUD for a set of speaker cables..............certainly better than the others mentioned at thier astronomic prices. How would I spend the money to improve the system more, easy, get a R2R player with some decent tapes, they will urinate all over the incremental differences in expenditure on speaker cables past 500 dollars IMV.
V
Yes building one's collection of tapes need's dedication and a deep wallet. I was merely commenting on how I'd spend 3 K to improve a system. I think I'd also rather have a top flight tuner and aerial as this brings into one's life a huge amount of music which you'd probably not get exposed to normally. Horses for courses. ;D
Incremental difference do exist between various manufacturers of cables as we all informed types know but once you breach the figures I mentioned the effects / improvements become very system dependent IMV. I suppose if you are cashed up then fair enough, blow the money and more importantly, support local manufactures! ;D
Yeah know what you mean, your new cables will make all source components sound better, no argument there. It's just my view that there are other things to get right first. Labouring the point a bit:
- source including great music
- speakers
- amp
- Interconnects
- Speaker cable
- equipment supports
- Mains feed
Great music is the KEY as far as I am concerned as even low price kit can sound good fed the right diet of music.
Just my tuppenth worth! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
V[/list]
I hope we get to hear these cables at the Canberra GTG in May 8)Yeah, that would be great, if it could be organised.
If people consider the cables to be 'stupid expensive' so be it.
As I said, for me, for what they offered me, I considered them to be exceptionally good value.
If you disagree, so be it
Craig
;D The other thing that comes to mind is the law of diminishing returns, once you have reached the ~ 600 $ per interconnect and slightly more for speaker cables your VFM goes South big time.
With really good kit the cables sometimes do not make a huge difference IMV and as already mentioned when the cost is higher than the kit its connecting then its time to shout wolf. :( :-X
V
If people consider the cables to be 'stupid expensive' so be it.
As I said, for me, for what they offered me, I considered them to be exceptionally good value.
If you disagree, so be it
Craig
Craig,
No worries, we'll leave it there, better all round for everyone. ;)
I think it will be a good excuse for a gtg / listening sesh / few beers :)
Nathan,
I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable or out of place here - sincerest apologies if I have.
Over the few phone conversations I have had with yourself and your wife I can tell you guys are great people so:
as Kajak says - enjoy the journey!
Tez
Yes building one's collection of tapes need's dedication and a deep wallet. I was merely commenting on how I'd spend 3 K to improve a system. I think I'd also rather have a top flight tuner and aerial as this brings into one's life a huge amount of music which you'd probably not get exposed to normally. Horses for courses. ;D
Incremental difference do exist between various manufacturers of cables as we all informed types know but once you breach the figures I mentioned the effects / improvements become very system dependent IMV. I suppose if you are cashed up then fair enough, blow the money and more importantly, support local manufactures! ;D
Yeah know what you mean, your new cables will make all source components sound better, no argument there. It's just my view that there are other things to get right first. Labouring the point a bit:
- source including great music
- speakers
- amp
- Interconnects
- Speaker cable
- equipment supports
- Mains feed
Great music is the KEY as far as I am concerned as even low price kit can sound good fed the right diet of music.
Just my tuppenth worth! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
V[/list]
I've already stirred up the honey bees around here - have to get the smoker out! :)
However, this is pretty close to how I see it and IMO an even handed effective approach.
PS Double emphasis on that first one - great music. ;)
Z
Yes building one's collection of tapes need's dedication and a deep wallet. I was merely commenting on how I'd spend 3 K to improve a system. I think I'd also rather have a top flight tuner and aerial as this brings into one's life a huge amount of music which you'd probably not get exposed to normally. Horses for courses. ;D
Incremental difference do exist between various manufacturers of cables as we all informed types know but once you breach the figures I mentioned the effects / improvements become very system dependent IMV. I suppose if you are cashed up then fair enough, blow the money and more importantly, support local manufactures! ;D
Yeah know what you mean, your new cables will make all source components sound better, no argument there. It's just my view that there are other things to get right first. Labouring the point a bit:
- source including great music
- speakers
- amp
- Interconnects
- Speaker cable
- equipment supports
- Mains feed
Great music is the KEY as far as I am concerned as even low price kit can sound good fed the right diet of music.
Just my tuppenth worth! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
V[/list]
What if you had a preamp and a power amp in one (integrated). Then had the exactly same thing, but two separated components, (pre and power) so the only real difference was the interconnects that joins them together. Then you used many different types of interconnect cables with the separates, and with some interconnects the sound was better, sometimes much better than with the integrated. What is that telling you....................
They cant be the same, they are by design, different.
Integrated's have 1 power supply. Seperates have seperate power supplies. This changes the circuit design, which changes everything.
But I am out of my depth on this point, so will merely concur that wire can make a dramatic difference.
I am saying, do interconnects, speaker cables, add something, sometimes nice, and oviously sometimes not, does that mean they are adding something. Is a great expensive speaker cable (like Nathans) letting the truth through, or is it actually adding a nice quality that may not be there, if the amps where built into the speakers (No speaker cables)
Always challenging us to think differently, onya Mate. But Steven, surely it could be 'either'.
In this example, given Rawls description, it appears to be letting more through. If capacitance is a factor, probably letting through.
But either way, does it matter? As long as we acknowledge that cables (all types) can and do change the sound, and quite often this can be dramatic (not just an incremental change).
I guess if it's adding something to the mix, you could cook up a similar kaleidoscope recipe, using different (cheaper) items. Hard work though.
Always challenging us to think differently, onya Mate. But Steven, surely it could be 'either'.Yes all components change the sound, audio cables are just another tool in tuning a system.
In this example, given Rawls description, it appears to be letting more through. If capacitance is a factor, probably letting through.
But either way, does it matter? As long as we acknowledge that cables (all types) can and do change the sound, and quite often this can be dramatic (not just an incremental change).
I guess if it's adding something to the mix, you could cook up a similar kaleidoscope recipe, using different (cheaper) items. Hard work though.
Nathan,
I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable or out of place here - sincerest apologies if I have.
Over the few phone conversations I have had with yourself and your wife I can tell you guys are great people so:
as Kajak says - enjoy the journey!
Tez
How do these compare to flat copper cables like the Lenehan Ribbonteks or the Goetz?Goetz M1 T2 version is the speaker cable i use, it is much better sounding, but is not the same as sold by parts connection, There is no painted coating and it has a Teflon dielectric in the middle. The only place i know to get it is the USA distributer, pacific magnetics. But fullrange drivers need a cable that supports there weaknesses so this cable is the one. Most other cables don't sound right, but I would like to try Nathans speaker cable, the balance could be right.
Cool thanks Steven. Do you prefer to using speaker terminals (spades or bullets?) or do you prefer to chopping the terminals off and using the bare flat copper connected to the speaker and amp terminals?Less is nearly always more, So bare flat shiny clean copper connected to the speaker and amp terminals
How do these compare to flat copper cables like the Lenehan Ribbonteks or the Goetz?
Cool thanks Steven. Do you prefer to using speaker terminals (spades or bullets?) or do you prefer to chopping the terminals off and using the bare flat copper connected to the speaker and amp terminals?Less is nearly always more, So bare flat shiny clean copper connected to the speaker and amp terminals
;D ;D ;D Well I think the plug for these speaker cables has us all interested but exactly how much are they again?
V
Is this going to be like comparing a Bugatti Veyron with a Mini Cooper? Whilst one is ultimately a lot more capable speed wise, one produces grin inducing pleasure at a price most can afford and the other.......................................................