The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Transports => Topic started by: omodo on April 01, 2014, 01:05:42 PM
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Had an early visit this morning from my trusty postman (well I hope so!) ...
Looking forward to doing some mods (expect a few calls/emails Rawl :D) and having a decent, or at least "better" & more musical, digital source
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more pics...
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88' Crowns , noice !
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Offer sent! 8)
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What did you have to pay for this machine.
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price was around 60k yen, so about $730 plus shipping -- too much?
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price was around 60k yen, so about $730 plus shipping -- too much?
No, that is a very good price.
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Bargain compared to this CD94 MK2.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/cd-player-marantz-94-mk-2-/191093953643?clk_rvr_id=612639432357&ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AAU%3A1120&nma=true&si=DsKXG%252By6wAyjluVtXb0HuxNMAII%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/cd-player-marantz-94-mk-2-/191093953643?clk_rvr_id=612639432357&ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AAU%3A1120&nma=true&si=DsKXG%252By6wAyjluVtXb0HuxNMAII%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
Looks like the dodgy dude socketted the DAC chips and put standard chips in there?
LOL!
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I know that guy, the original chips where fried when he got it. I gave him those chips to get it going. That Marantz 94 mark 2 was an immaculate one owner unit, a year ago with original sales receipt, manual and box.
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well, it works :o tray opens/closes smoothly, reads toc and seeks quickly, cdrs play fine
and to be honest sounds a lot better than I expected, even sitting on the floor & somewhat hastily hooked up
very rich & analogue, no hint of digital sheen or hash, can only imagine what a better clock, careful tweaks will bring to the table
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Nice one mate.
What are you comparing it to?
Aya dac? What transport?
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Hey Tuyen, Just my poor audio memory at this time, no need for comparisons, yet :-X
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You need a zenclock omodo................
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Nice one D ;D
This will be much more musical that your other DAC/transport, but more cantankerous 8)
Enjoy
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Cantankerous, Lol. 8)
Not all transports have tray glitches. That said, mine has started to be a bit temperamental. Never trade it though. Nooooo way. :D
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Must be just the ones I've had ;D
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no issues so-far, my newer marantz does sound a lot more 'composed', for lack of better word, on more modern recordings, earlier cds a lot better on the cd-95.. much like a SPU on modern vinyl, I guess?..
the manual is in japanese, so a question for the older marantz experts, is there a way to put these into a standby mode, or is the led display burning 24/7 normal?
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When I power my CD94 off on the front left button, the display goes out.
If it's on, the display is always on.
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Hi Oz, yes - the power button was quite intuitive and worked as I would expect :P downloaded a copy of the cd94 manual and looks like no standby mode - shame, the lcd display is like a homing beacon for our 20 month old :'( and it does seem to sound a lot better after several hours warmup - figure the same would apply when used purely as a transport
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Hi Oz, yes - the power button was quite intuitive and worked as I would expect :P
:)
it does seem to sound a lot better after several hours warmup - figure the same would apply when used purely as a transport
Not sure about that, you'd expect the components in the output stage to benefit from a bit of warming up. When modded as a pure transport, the output stage is disconnected (well it is in my case).
My system does get better and better the longer it runs, but I figured it was all the transformers and tubes in the dac, pre, power coming into play.
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So I was so impressed with this player I got a second one, mainly for spares and a baseline for modifications. It wasn't in quite as good condition as the first, and also cost a bit more, the joys of online auctions >:( :o
On arrival the drawer was a bit sticky, the belts looked newish so figure someone else had a go at it recently, but replaced the two drawer belts anyway. Still catching, but then half way through playing a cd the display goes blank (oh the irony!...), power cycling same result, no display and the play/stop buttons staying lit.
After a couple of hours of fault finding (the 2 players really came in handy here!) I traced it back to the main filter cap in the 5v rail being a bit leaky, under full load the rail was dropping to just over 4v, replaced the cap with one I had in my parts box (8200uF/25v panasonic fc) and the display was back, everything working again.
... well other than the drawer still being a bit sticky, mucked around with alignment with not much luck, so also replaced the two large filter caps on the main supply rails (again from parts box, 10000uF/35v panasonic ts-ha), the drawer now runs perfectly smooth so suspect they were also on the way out. Something else to check if you have a sticky drawer and the belts are relatively new?!...
... now on to some upgrades
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... well other than the drawer still being a bit sticky, mucked around with alignment with not much luck, so also replaced the two large filter caps on the main supply rails (again from parts box, 10000uF/35v panasonic ts-ha), the drawer now runs perfectly smooth so suspect they were also on the way out. Something else to check if you have a sticky drawer and the belts are relatively new?!...
Well done D !!!! Any chance you can post a pic of the caps you replaced?
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Hi Oz, I didn't take any pics, but looking at the following:
http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/img/info/marantz/marantz-cd94/marantz-cd94-inside.jpg
5V rail main filter cap is the brown elna cap mid-center of that pic, just behind the fuse, originally 6800uF/16v
the other caps I replaced are the two larger black/gold ones just behind, originally 6800uF/27v
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Ok , cool, thanks for sharing.
People tend to focus on just the belts, and fiddle with them endlessly.
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Hi Oz, yes I did a lot of searching 're belt adjustment and no mention of this. But back from my old rc racing days, voltage was king with these spec type brushed motors, so any drop in supply will have them bog down..
Pity I sold all my motor/commutator lathes years ago or I would of pulled the motors and gave them a true/cleanup, well perhaps best I did, or it would be another thing to obsess over.. :D
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Lol. :D
Cant afford too many obsessions, time is too precious.
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Very nice CD player Omodo .Almost identical to a CD94 mk2 inside ,with a CD12 style case .I am upgrading mine now .Not much space but surprising gains with simple mods.I want to keep mine all in one box so sticking to mods that will allow this for now . I would like to try a Zenclock ,but currently using the Valab clock which is fabulous value for $40 and much better than the earlier trichords . Genuine AD827 are vastly better than stock op amps and all the others I tried . Non Over Sampling is also excellent free mod . still haven't done the I/V yet ,and not sure what I will do there .I had 2 machines that were well modded and they were awesome .
I have been upgrading CD94mk2 machines for about 15 years ,and 2 machines are great for fault finding .If belts slip ,get some CRC belt grip and apply with a cotton bud or similar .
I also have a CD12 /DA12 with a drive that has a few issues, but I am narrowing it down . It has 2 separate clocks ,one 11mhz ,and the other 16mhz with a PLL . Quite unusual .
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Hi brenden,
Welcome to the forum!
currently using the Valab clock which is fabulous value for $40 and much better than the earlier trichords.
Now, that is really interesting! Could you share us a link with regards to the Valab clock? For $40 I might get one and try it.
Happy Easter everyone! :)
Thanks,
Wil (king of cheap) :P
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http://stores.ebay.com/Vintage-Audio-Lab/Audio-DIY-fihished-module-/_i.html?_fsub=280110519&_sid=314713499&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
Hope this gets you there Jehuty . Cheers
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still undecided re. clocks, but do like the look of the discrete clock offering in the GB section on DIYA
have you tried the PFM Flea by any chance Brendan?
made a few minor changes this week while on holidays
- separate lm7805 based regular for saa7220p/b filter, also tried lt1085 and tps7a4700 based regs but the simple lm7805 reg sounded better, richer with a lot more weight, this seemed to clean the sound up a lot, more separation, refinement, so also added another regulator (same config) for the saa7210 and ram chip
- also found one of the cerafines on the Rch TDA chip was also leaking, so replaced the 100uF and 47uF cerafines on both ch. with Silmic II in same values
- replaced the mks decoupling caps on TDA with mkp (same value, 100nF/63V) but used 6.8uF/16V Oscon SEP on the MSB pins (old thorsten recommendation)
- replaced the rect. diodes with fast recovery mur410/120/110 where appropriate
perhaps coupling capacitors next, or add balanced out bypassing the last opamp and do bal-se via transformer
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Never heard of the flea ,but checked it out ,and it looks like a good design .Just bought another Valab clock for the CD12 but will go into the parts bin for now .May be moving soon ,things looking pretty bad on the home front .
I too have some polyprop caps to replace the cheap caps around the chips in the 94mk2 .Will try a few different caps on the MSB to get a handle on any differences .I tried PK black gates many years ago ,but didn't like them .Lost sparkle in the top end .
The filter board benefits from separate regulation .I haven't done this on my current machine yet ,but I did at least separate the ground path for this board , which now goes direct via pure silver wire ,rather than through the servo board .You can do the same with the dac board .using 24awg and 28awg at the moment but the quality and sizing of the wire is quite critical .I will refine the sizings of the wires further in time .
I have some good Linear Tech regulators in my parts box ,but may opt for some Dexa regs or Hynes drop in regs this time .
The CD12 has a quasi balanced transformer out, but I haven't tried that in comparison to the single ended .Not enough time .
If I ever get this done ,I will build a Killer Dac . If I end up single again ,there could be more free time :(
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Sorry to hear that Brenden. I hope all goes well eventually.
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Thanks for the kind thoughts Jehuty .Music always helps to sooth the soul ,so may need this system up and singing .
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Hi Oz, I didn't take any pics, but looking at the following:
5V rail main filter cap is the brown elna cap mid-center of that pic, just behind the fuse, originally 6800uF/16v
the other caps I replaced are the two larger black/gold ones just behind, originally 6800uF/27v
Hi Omodo ,or anyone else . I asked the guy from HKaudio parts in Ebay if he could get some more of the larger Stargets that I used for the 5v position common to the Marantz machines .He was able to get some ,and they are on Ebay now .I bought some more as I was very impressed with them in this position .They are not too big and can be shoe horned in with a bit of careful pin bending .
Just thought I would let you know ,in case you wanted to try them .They are getting difficult to source ,and these are genuine Elna Japanese caps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-MADE-JAPAN-ELNA-STARGET-6800uF-35V-AUDIO-GRADE-ELECTROLYTIC-CAPACITOR-/251572956854?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a92eaaeb6
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Hi Brenden, thanks for the link, but always a bit apprehensive about buying parts out of China/HK....
Do you have any datasheets for Starget showing this size/capacitance? The only datasheet I can find (linked below) has values only up to 6800uF/10V, and none with the same form factor (25 x 50). Searching for this size/voltage only returns this seller and a few others from china (taobao). Was there another range of Starget other than this datasheet ?
http://www.diyaudio.gr/downloads/starget-ROD.PDF
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new toy ;) ;D
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Hi Brenden, thanks for the link, but always a bit apprehensive about buying parts out of China/HK....
Do you have any datasheets for Starget showing this size/capacitance? The only datasheet I can find (linked below) has values only up to 6800uF/10V, and none with the same form factor (25 x 50). Searching for this size/voltage only returns this seller and a few others from china (taobao). Was there another range of Starget other than this datasheet ?
http://www.diyaudio.gr/downloads/starget-ROD.PDF
Hi Omodo . The datasheet for the caps you found is for the leaded ones .I don't have a data sheet for the larger pin caps .
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Unfortunately the data sheets for older Elna caps are almost non existant , especially the large ones .
Its a little like trying to buy TDA1541A s2 chips .
Firstly you need to know the finer details of what you are looking for with Elna caps .Things such as the marking on top of the cap ,but some of them have a piece of black plastic that cover the vent stamp which is the shape of a sword . The colouring and gloss of the plastic cover is good for these caps .When I purchased mine ,I checked the pins with a magnet ,as Stargets have OFC pins and leads .The ones I got were non magnetic .
The shape of the pins where they attach to the rubber are in the distinctive shape of a heart .
Good caps usually have a weighty feel to them for their size . Also the general look and feel quality of Elnas is higher than most .If anything looks out of place ,I would pass .Starget capacitors were not produced after around 2006 ,at least for the European market .There is also a date stamp on the side of these Stargets ,which were manufactured in 98.
Being older caps I prefer to over rate the voltage so should be no problems while they reform .
The other thing that could be a give away is the amount of these being offered on the market. There are very few of these ,so I don't think it would be worth the copy expenses for caps for this kind of quality finnish ,unless they were making lots .
Brand new Elna caps especially the large ones are very hard to source ,even through their agents .My guess is that they concentrate their efforts to large equipment manufacturers ,rather than small time retail .The retailers that sell Elnas only seem to sell a very limited range .To confuse matters further, many of the audio manufacturers like Marantz ,and Sony would order special caps to their specs .Hard to pick if some of these being offered are genuine .I would be more concerned about the many new Thailand made caps being offered through China .
The problem with fakes is difficult now (not just caps),and for new, available parts ,I always buy from companies like Parts Connexion , Element 14 or other well respected outlets .Some parts like these caps ,are like vintage gear .The only way you can find out is to try it .
But in the end ,the proof is in the pudding ,and top quality Elnas sound excellent in all respects ,but with different flavours from Silmic ,Cerafine and Starget . So for an outlay of about $25 was worth a try ,and all I can say is that in my opinion these caps are genuine,but if by some very small chance they are not , they still sound fantastic .
I bought quite a few big Cerafines from Parts Connexion many years ago ,and lots of smaller silmics and Cerafines ,still stored away.Also have some" For Audio" Elnas .I also have plenty of Nichicon Muses and various other " audiophile " electrolytics that really didn't seem to excite me all that much .
The reason I bought these is that they were a higher grade cap than the brown one ( steel leaded ) in the CD94 used for the TDA1541 ,but still able to fit it in without too much modification .I did need to bend the pins and file a little .
I think this would be a critical cap for sound quality in the CD94 but appears to me that designers chose an average part for this position .
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Just found this from Graeme Slee who used to use the Stargets in his products before they were discontinued .
"Walt Jung did some interesting comparisons in an article "choosing capacitors". To me, the best sounding aluminium capacitor of all time was the Elna Starget, but sadly it could not be made using "non-hazardous" materials. Elna tried hard with the Tonerex - but failed."
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Graham Slee was a fan of the Starget.. but a google search will show the caps he used were consistent with the above datasheet, red/white shrink, miniature size
infact, I still have some leftover from an old Slee kit that I built for a friend, pic attached
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That's right Omodo ,I would like to try some smaller Stargets to see if they have the same quality sound as the bigger ones I have .
I remember doing a few things to a mates Sony XA7 ES CD player ,and it had large Silmics in it .I haven't seen those either from a retailer or anywhere on the net .These apparently don't exist either except in high end gear .So I wonder if there are lots of Elna products that don't have their technical papers published ,or have just disappeared .I cant find data for my big Cerafines either ,but they were bought from PC and are genuine .
This place in Germany ? has some different values at the bottom of the page listed under Tonerex ,but they are Starget .
http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/Elna-Elna-Tonerex-LAO
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new toy ;) ;D
Omodo, send it to Danny Digital for mods. He's got my highest recommendation. His works are meticulous and very tidy. I am really happy now with my CD94 and not looking anymore players 8)
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playing the WT3200 into my old AYA-II DAC (via plain old spdif), is the best redbook playback I've had sofar, well at least in the areas I look for (richness, body & soul, emotion), so am quite content for now. I might look at clock/i2s mods in the future but will continue to play with the CD-95 in the meantime
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playing the WT3200 into my old AYA-II DAC (via plain old spdif), is the best redbook playback I've had sofar, well at least in the areas I look for (richness, body & soul, emotion), so am quite content for now. I might look at clock/i2s mods in the future but will continue to play with the CD-95 in the meantime
That's great! I2S will be another improvement. It will only get better 8)