The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Transports => Topic started by: kajak12 on August 03, 2011, 02:14:42 PM
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Today i received a prototype version of zenelectro killer clock currently running in very promising i actually prefer it to my clock :'( its a cleaner sound without being analytical texture colour of music is still present imaging is also better.Honestly its the first clock i had in my house that cuts the mustard without modding/tweaking.No fancy duelunds caps used just great desighn work done with a educated guess.
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nice mario... i'm keen to try this as well. hopefully wont take too long to reach production.... must be patient!!! ;D
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nice mario... i'm keen to try this as well. hopefully wont take too long to reach production.... must be patient!!! ;D
Zenelectro is working on it now custom made boards will be made
I decided to put my clock back on for a listen my clock uses a dubilier 8uf and a duelund 2.2 Approx value $300 in caps
Didn't take long to put zenelectro clock back in,zen clock is more opened less veiled it just sh!ts on my clock.
ps:terry i hope you know that the zen clock is staying on a holiday in perth :D
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Great stuff! Any actual tech info about the prototype would be nice if you are willing to share, zenelectro. :)
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Great news , maybe I could fit one to th A-gd to stop it sounding like sheizer ;D
Seriously though, I would love to try one.
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Great news indeed! Been looking to upgrade my clock and this is very promising! Registering my interest now :)
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Big news. Good work getting the prototype out Terry.
Cant wait for the production batch to roll around. My hand is up for 1.
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Great news , maybe I could fit one to th A-gd to stop it sounding like sheizer ;D
Seriously though, I would love to try one.
The best way is to contact zenelectro via pm as your transport uses a dvd player frequency from memory 27????mhz,
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Great news , maybe I could fit one to th A-gd to stop it sounding like sheizer ;D
Seriously though, I would love to try one.
Gordon, if it sounds good to you mate FFFF everyone else, it's you it has to satisfy.
V
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Thanks Mario / guys
The goal was to make a super low jitter clock that had the usual attributes of imaging, detail etc but to retain
(or maybe even enhance) the often lost qualities of great musicality and natural timbres etc.
The design is a pretty all out approach with every function block having it's own separate VLN discrete reg.
The oscillator itself has super low jitter spec (rms < 1pSec) and a phase noise spec of -120dBc at 10Hz from carrier (11.2896MHz)
Whilst the specs are very good, the main focus as stated above is a design that retained musical qualities that can get lost when clock are upgraded.
I'll also be trying one on Stevens system to see how it translates and help get a handle on it's performance.
I'll sort some pcb's and get a small batch of 11.2896MHz clocks underway.
cheers
T
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Thanks Mario / guys
The goal was to make a super low jitter clock that had the usual attributes of imaging, detail etc but to retain
(or maybe even enhance) the often lost qualities of great musicality and natural timbres etc.
The design is a pretty all out approach with every function block having it's own separate VLN discrete reg.
The oscillator itself has super low jitter spec (rms < 1pSec) and a phase noise spec of -120dBc at 10Hz from carrier (11.2896MHz)
Whilst the specs are very good, the main focus as stated above is a design that retained musical qualities that can get lost when clock are upgraded.
I'll also be trying one on Stevens system to see how it translates and help get a handle on it's performance.
I'll sort some pcb's and get a small batch of 11.2896MHz clocks underway.
cheers
T
My clock is a fully worked early tricord, that even standard, i feel is better than tricords current design. There is very little left of the original clock parts. I even think the earlier crystal is better than his currant one and i use it. I use duelund caps sidereels caps, tantalum resistors, all battery powered, It has timber, body, warmth, involvement, beautiful mid range weight and rhythm and pace, not analytical in any way. and it is head and shoulders better than any i have heard, so it will be an interesting test. Remember Terry had a lot of imput into the killer DAC, so from him, i expect greatness.
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This sounds a most interesting development indeed. Will be following further reports.
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Great news , maybe I could fit one to th A-gd to stop it sounding like sheizer ;D
Seriously though, I would love to try one.
Gordon, if it sounds good to you mate FFFF everyone else, it's you it has to satisfy.
V
No worries V.I do think it sounds excellent but am still interested to see if it could be improved with the new clock.
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Great news , maybe I could fit one to th A-gd to stop it sounding like sheizer ;D
Seriously though, I would love to try one.
The best way is to contact zenelectro via pm as your transport uses a dvd player frequency from memory 27????mhz,
Thanks Mario , will do.
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Just a quick update i have installed a duelund on the clock on the input of the 12v car battery,nothing like a duelund very very good.
Vitavox will be coming down for a listen on the weekend if anybody else would like to come down send me a pm.This clock will be going to steve's house next monday, express post with a express post bag included for the return to my house I know steve too well so i really hope it doesn't perform well on his system or i wont be getting it back for a while.
ps:To stevenvalve all the postage costs will be covered for the return of the ZEN clock to where it belongs :P
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Just a quick update i have installed a duelund on the clock on the input of the 12v car battery,nothing like a duelund very very good.
Vitavox will be coming down for a listen on the weekend if anybody else would like to come down send me a pm.This clock will be going to steve's house next monday, express post with a express post bag included for the return to my house I know steve too well so i really hope it doesn't perform well on his system or i wont be getting it back for a while.
ps:To stevenvalve all the postage costs will be covered for the return of the ZEN clock to where it belongs :P
Interesting how it can be taken further by top components surrounding the circuit, some times electronices with even bog standard components can sound good. A Marantz 7 comes to mind.
V
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express post with a express post bag included for the return to my house
ps:To stevenvalve all the postage costs will be covered for the return of the ZEN clock to where it belongs :P
Make sure Steven remembers that, last time I did the same thing, sent a package to him including two unused express post bags, you know what he did to the bags? He chucked them away coz he thought it was only for paddings! LMAO!!! :D
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Thanks Mario / guys
The goal was to make a super low jitter clock that had the usual attributes of imaging, detail etc but to retain
(or maybe even enhance) the often lost qualities of great musicality and natural timbres etc.
The design is a pretty all out approach with every function block having it's own separate VLN discrete reg.
The oscillator itself has super low jitter spec (rms < 1pSec) and a phase noise spec of -120dBc at 10Hz from carrier (11.2896MHz)
Whilst the specs are very good, the main focus as stated above is a design that retained musical qualities that can get lost when clock are upgraded.
I'll also be trying one on Stevens system to see how it translates and help get a handle on it's performance.
I'll sort some pcb's and get a small batch of 11.2896MHz clocks underway.
cheers
T
Thanks for the info Terry.
Any chance of getting a 12mhz chip pretty please? If not, is the oscillator chip easily replaceable? If too much hassle, no problems :)
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Just a quick update i have installed a duelund on the clock on the input of the 12v car battery,nothing like a duelund very very good.
Vitavox will be coming down for a listen on the weekend if anybody else would like to come down send me a pm.This clock will be going to steve's house next monday, express post with a express post bag included for the return to my house I know steve too well so i really hope it doesn't perform well on his system or i wont be getting it back for a while.
ps:To stevenvalve all the postage costs will be covered for the return of the ZEN clock to where it belongs :P
Interesting how it can be taken further by top components surrounding the circuit, some times electronices with even bog standard components can sound good. A Marantz 7 comes to mind.
V
The electrolytics that Mario replaced were $3 parts, however they were used intentionally as electros are required for non
battery operation and not everyone has (or wants) a car battery running their clock.
Getting performance from AC supply close to that of a battery is a challenge but that is what I am working on now.
All good fun!
cheers
T
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Thanks for the info Terry.
Any chance of getting a 12mhz chip pretty please? If not, is the oscillator chip easily replaceable? If too much hassle, no problems :)
Tuyen,
Are you referring to 12.288MHz - what player is it for?
Presently I am looking at 11.2896MHz as this is most popular (to suit CD94's etc).
The oscillators are specialised and quite expensive so I need to get them in quantity to
be able to keep costs reasonable.
However I am sure in the future I will be able to accomodate more frequencies.
T
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Hi Terry,
12.000MHz for one of Doede's USB I2S module. But as you say need numbers for an order, so probably won't happen. But all good! :)
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Just a quick update i have installed a duelund on the clock on the input of the 12v car battery,nothing like a duelund very very good.
Vitavox will be coming down for a listen on the weekend if anybody else would like to come down send me a pm.This clock will be going to steve's house next monday, express post with a express post bag included for the return to my house I know steve too well so i really hope it doesn't perform well on his system or i wont be getting it back for a while.
ps:To stevenvalve all the postage costs will be covered for the return of the ZEN clock to where it belongs :P
What clock Ha Ha.
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Hi Terry,
12.000MHz for one of Doede's USB I2S module. But as you say need numbers for an order, so probably won't happen. But all good! :)
You can have it, if you are prepaired to pay extra for a one off crystal.
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Hi Terry,
12.000MHz for one of Doede's USB I2S module. But as you say need numbers for an order, so probably won't happen. But all good! :)
What about 2 clocks for the jkenny hiface tuyen?
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Guess it will boil down to what the price is for one piece and also how much Terry wants for the rest of the module. :)
Don't want to mod the jkeny (yet anyway..) as at the moment it won't even work with the dddac. still waiting for a high speed buffer chip to arrive and see if it will make the two units work together. then I can compare the differences between the jkeny and doede and decide which one suits me more.
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Guess it will boil down to what the price is for one piece and also how much Terry wants for the rest of the module. :)
Don't want to mod the jkeny (yet anyway..) as at the moment it won't even work with the dddac. still waiting for a high speed buffer chip to arrive and see if it will make the two units work together. then I can compare the differences between the jkeny and doede and decide which one suits me more.
Tuyen,
12MHz means it is non integer of 44.1 so the usb converter that ddd use is NVG - probably that TI dac chip (2707?).
Seems like a waste of money to me as there would be other huge sources of jitter in this setup.
I would put the money into better usb - i2s conversion. Just my opinion as always ymmv
T
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No problems Terry :)
Indeed it uses the PCM2707 dac chip to pick the i2s data. Just using the included tentlabs chip and it's doing a decent job for now.
I hope the jkeny unit paired with this unit below will allow it to play with my dac. I know Doede had to fit some optocoupler (buffer?) module for his jkeny module to work with his dddac too.
quoted from an email by Doede "Hi Tuyen, That is an optocoupler board and functions as a buffer. It seems without this buffer, the USB board cannot drive so many DAC Towers…. (as you are experimenting ahead of me ;-) I have not been able to test this extensively …. "
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1724/sam0257q.jpg)
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Tuyen how much is this buffer?
Very interesting i wouldn't mind trying it between my cd94 and dac to hear what the buffer does to sq
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Worked out to be about $17AU posted.
Contact Oliver (dvb-projekt) on diyaudio if ya interested
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/dvb-projekt/ (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/dvb-projekt/)
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Worked out to be about $17AU posted.
Contact Oliver (dvb-projekt) on diyaudio if ya interested
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/dvb-projekt/ (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/dvb-projekt/)
That is cheap worth a try so longer leads can be run for i2s also gives me a yard stick against zenelectro buffer for i2s which will be available soooooooooooon.
ps:you have too much time on your hands finding all the toys do some bloody work tuyen
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Just a quick update
The wheels are turning, parts being sourced, board design started etc.
ATM I am thinking:
- A 12V DC IP (fused) for hard core battery buffs.
- A 10V AC input with all rectification/filtering on board, all that is required is a small 240/10V transformer.
- access to main voltage ref film cap for those who like to mod stuff (who doesn't)
cheers
Terry
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Just a quick update
The wheels are turning, parts being sourced, board design started etc.
ATM I am thinking:
- A 12V DC IP (fused) for hard core battery buffs.
- A 10V AC input with all rectification/filtering on board, all that is required is a small 240/10V transformer.
- access to main voltage ref film cap for those who like to mod stuff (who doesn't)
cheers
Terry
Hey T
Mario really rates your clock, nice one. ;)
Don't go pussying around with crap torrodials, :-X get some manly plate and frames roughly 10 times what you actually need in terms of VA, that way you know you've done your best, those piss willy little 5 VA and 20Va's are a joke. :'( Do it right the first time and there is no inclination to faff with it later. Having said that leave the Duelands to those with big hipsters with deep pockets! :P
V
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Just a quick update
The wheels are turning, parts being sourced, board design started etc.
ATM I am thinking:
- A 12V DC IP (fused) for hard core battery buffs.
- A 10V AC input with all rectification/filtering on board, all that is required is a small 240/10V transformer.
- access to main voltage ref film cap for those who like to mod stuff (who doesn't)
cheers
Terry
Hey T
Mario really rates your clock, nice one. ;)
Don't go pussying around with crap torrodials, :-X get some manly plate and frames roughly 10 times what you actually need in terms of VA, that way you know you've done your best, those piss willy little 5 VA and 20Va's are a joke. :'( Do it right the first time and there is no inclination to faff with it later. Having said that leave the Duelands to those with big hipsters with deep pockets! :P
V
WRT transformer, I used to work at the place that mario / steve get their transformers and
have a few design tricks up my sleeve - if needed.
WRT toroid, agreed it's not my first choice at all. One of the advantages of a small EI tranny
is it can be made with very low coupling back to the mains. Then it's a case of
getting rid of noise and filtering.
cheers
T
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Just a quick update
The wheels are turning, parts being sourced, board design started etc.
ATM I am thinking:
- A 12V DC IP (fused) for hard core battery buffs.
cheers
Terry
What is this word fused ?
I dont like this kind of bad language nothing on my clock will be fused,if it has a fuse its called cat 5 in teflon :P
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Hey Mario :D
You are allready listening to your CD95 which is fused. :-X The transformer has a built in thermal fuse which is not get- at- able, at least with an external fuse and holder you can bypass you household insurance and hard wire it! :o All manufacturers have to meet code, hence the fuse. I don't blame Zenelectro in placing a fuse on the mains 240V side, here it does least harm but can always be improved upon by spending a tad more to replace it with a mini circuit breaker which senses current draw, these stay out of the way (unlike fuses) until they really need to kick in, then you have a problem! :P So don't panic Mr.Mannering, resetable circuit breaker to the rescue, available at all good outlets of Farnell RS etc for low bucks ;) That's what I use.
V ;D
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Hey Mario :D
You are allready listening to your CD95 which is fused. :-X The transformer has a built in thermal fuse which is not get- at- able, at least with an external fuse and holder you can bypass you household insurance and hard wire it! :o All manufacturers have to meet code, hence the fuse. I don't blame Zenelectro in placing a fuse on the mains 240V side, here it does least harm but can always be improved upon by spending a tad more to replace it with a mini circuit breaker which senses current draw, these stay out of the way (unlike fuses) until they really need to kick in, then you have a problem! :P So don't panic Mr.Mannering, resetable circuit breaker to the rescue, available at all good outlets of Farnell RS etc for low bucks ;) That's what I use.
V ;D
I will be running a clock with 12v battery no fuse needed,oh and yes a audiophile grade circuit breaker will happen one day made in germany.
As for 240v power supply good idea to have a fuse just in case.I wonder why my cd94 has an external fuse if they use an internal fuse inside the transformer?
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Hey Mario :D
You are allready listening to your CD95 which is fused. :-X The transformer has a built in thermal fuse which is not get- at- able, at least with an external fuse and holder you can bypass you household insurance and hard wire it! :o All manufacturers have to meet code, hence the fuse. I don't blame Zenelectro in placing a fuse on the mains 240V side, here it does least harm but can always be improved upon by spending a tad more to replace it with a mini circuit breaker which senses current draw, these stay out of the way (unlike fuses) until they really need to kick in, then you have a problem! :P So don't panic Mr.Mannering, resetable circuit breaker to the rescue, available at all good outlets of Farnell RS etc for low bucks ;) That's what I use.
V ;D
I will be running a clock with 12v battery no fuse needed,oh and yes a audiophile grade circuit breaker will happen one day made in germany.
As for 240v power supply good idea to have a fuse just in case.I wonder why my cd94 has an external fuse if they use an internal fuse inside the transformer?
I think ones user replacable and untrusting manufactures (na only kidding) use thermal one's so they can't be dicked with and your fire insurance may pay out???? Of course you could always replace your transport transformer with a better C or IE core of higher VA which means a more stable circuit voltage wise. A 500vA plate and frame well designed will have a far lower voltage drop and much better regulation than a squity 50VA jobbie and sound better too. IT's a bit like a 5ltr engine going up a hill and a 500cc with the same load, guess which one has an easy time of it does not get HOT nor saturate its core ( that is if no DC is on the line) or drops voltage below nominal!
V
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Hey Mario :D
You are allready listening to your CD95 which is fused. :-X The transformer has a built in thermal fuse which is not get- at- able, at least with an external fuse and holder you can bypass you household insurance and hard wire it! :o All manufacturers have to meet code, hence the fuse. I don't blame Zenelectro in placing a fuse on the mains 240V side, here it does least harm but can always be improved upon by spending a tad more to replace it with a mini circuit breaker which senses current draw, these stay out of the way (unlike fuses) until they really need to kick in, then you have a problem! :P So don't panic Mr.Mannering, resetable circuit breaker to the rescue, available at all good outlets of Farnell RS etc for low bucks ;) That's what I use.
V ;D
I will be running a clock with 12v battery no fuse needed,oh and yes a audiophile grade circuit breaker will happen one day made in germany.
As for 240v power supply good idea to have a fuse just in case.I wonder why my cd94 has an external fuse if they use an internal fuse inside the transformer?
I think ones user replacable and untrusting manufactures (na only kidding) use thermal one's so they can't be dicked with and your fire insurance may pay out???? Of course you could always replace your transport transformer with a better C or IE core of higher VA which means a more stable circuit voltage wise. A 500vA plate and frame well designed will have a far lower voltage drop and much better regulation than a squity 50VA jobbie and sound better too. IT's a bit like a 5ltr engine going up a hill and a 500cc with the same load, guess which one has an easy time of it does not get HOT nor saturate its core ( that is if no DC is on the line) or drops voltage below nominal!
V
very true i could replace the transformer in my cd94 question is when does it stop? answer when you get a divorce and spend money on a new mate
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Hey Mario :D
You are allready listening to your CD95 which is fused. :-X The transformer has a built in thermal fuse which is not get- at- able, at least with an external fuse and holder you can bypass you household insurance and hard wire it! :o All manufacturers have to meet code, hence the fuse. I don't blame Zenelectro in placing a fuse on the mains 240V side, here it does least harm but can always be improved upon by spending a tad more to replace it with a mini circuit breaker which senses current draw, these stay out of the way (unlike fuses) until they really need to kick in, then you have a problem! :P So don't panic Mr.Mannering, resetable circuit breaker to the rescue, available at all good outlets of Farnell RS etc for low bucks ;) That's what I use.
V ;D
I will be running a clock with 12v battery no fuse needed,oh and yes a audiophile grade circuit breaker will happen one day made in germany.
As for 240v power supply good idea to have a fuse just in case.I wonder why my cd94 has an external fuse if they use an internal fuse inside the transformer?
I think ones user replacable and untrusting manufactures (na only kidding) use thermal one's so they can't be dicked with and your fire insurance may pay out???? Of course you could always replace your transport transformer with a better C or IE core of higher VA which means a more stable circuit voltage wise. A 500vA plate and frame well designed will have a far lower voltage drop and much better regulation than a squity 50VA jobbie and sound better too. IT's a bit like a 5ltr engine going up a hill and a 500cc with the same load, guess which one has an easy time of it does not get HOT nor saturate its core ( that is if no DC is on the line) or drops voltage below nominal!
V
very true i could replace the transformer in my cd94 question is when does it stop? answer when you get a divorce and spend money on a new mate
Well if you do not smoke or buy booze then that leaves a few pennies for when you are not appeasing the wife by buying new sitee's. On a serious note, it never changes, there are always changes to wring, wether it's substantially better and worth it is down to personal tastes. Dutch Eric looks to have his priorities firmly set but probably can easily afford it. A case of cutting your cloth according to means. I would love to be able to go out and splash 100G's on a front end, the same on amps and the sky is almost the limit for speakers and room to put them in, then there's the mains feed, acoustics WAF oh man it NEVER ENDS. Some times I think it cheaper to attend the conceet hall on a regular basis, but then there is not the choice.............damn Oh to be KING. Anyway this is hijacking this thread about clocks, get onto Terry and ask what frequencies he can accommodate for the new design as I feel sure this has 'pricked the interest' of quite a few viewers of the fourum.
V
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Anyway this is hijacking this thread about clocks, get onto Terry and ask what frequencies he can accommodate for the new design as I feel sure this has 'pricked the interest' of quite a few viewers of the fourum.
V
WRT Frequencies - most audio related frequencies can be accommodated. The first batch however will be 11.2896
as that is the most popular frequency. I also have some interest from pro audio for studio master word clocks.
All good!
cheers
T
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Hello
Well I have just returned from 'having a session' round Marios to audition the new Zenelectro clock for CD players and transports. ;D
Interesting. 8)
With Mario's own clock (no slouch) the intruments were all there but the space between them was narower than with the new 'super clock'. Initially this took a bit of getting used to but a change in output valves on the KDac and we were in business. What the new clock has that the Mario's DIY clock does not is more width, height and depth and if the recording allows, more space around individual performers. Well the tinkering could not be resisted so a second Dueland cap replaced an electrolytic on the board, this totally balanced out the clock as earlier there was a strange lopsidedness to the reproduction. (call this an inbalance between top and bottom reproduction and speed) So two Duelands in and now the sound (again given good recordings) evened out and lost any edginess or uneveness to reveal an altogether smoother and 'easy on the ears' replay. :P
Please bear in mind that supplying the power was a car battery which can sound too smooth for some, this was fed into an onboard regulator which dropped the voltage to the 5v crystal, I did not have a really good squiz at the circuit but there were several transistors and LED's which could be acting as a voltage source(?). Construction quality looked fine as this is a demo unit only and it uses bog standard resistors but there was one Auricap which was the only 'pandering' to audiophile types along with decent ground planes and a central earthing line.
So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness. This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so. Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.
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Hello
Well I have just returned from 'having a session' round Marios to audition the new Zenelectro clock for CD players and transports. ;D
Interesting. 8)
With Mario's own clock (no slouch) the intruments were all there but the space between them was narower than with the new 'super clock'. Initially this took a bit of getting used to but a change in output valves on the KDac and we were in business. What the new clock has that the Mario's DIY clock does not is more width, height and depth and if the recording allows, more space around individual performers. Well the tinkering could not be resisted so a second Dueland cap replaced an electrolytic on the board, this totally balanced out the clock as earlier there was a strange lopsidedness to the reproduction. (call this an inbalance between top and bottom reproduction and speed) So two Duelands in and now the sound (again given good recordings) evened out and lost any edginess or uneveness to reveal an altogether smoother and 'easy on the ears' replay. :P
Please bear in mind that supplying the power was a car battery which can sound too smooth for some, this was fed into an onboard regulator which dropped the voltage to the 5v crystal, I did not have a really good squiz at the circuit but there were several transistors and LED's which could be acting as a voltage source(?). Construction quality looked fine as this is a demo unit only and it uses bog standard resistors but there was one Auricap which was the only 'pandering' to audiophile types along with decent ground planes and a central earthing line.
So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness. This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so. Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.
Just imagine when i get my own personal clock to play around with,i can see a hifi collective order of resistors coming just for the clock i will push it to its limits
ps:computer audio is miles away from the cd94 + zen clock
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Hello
So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness. This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so. Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.
Thanks vtv your feedback is appreciated. I'm not surprised the 2 x duelunds made an improvement.
Note that the 2 electros used were cheap Rubycons out of my cap box also all resistors are plain Jaycar MF and carbon film types.
The proto clock was made with parts I had on hand - see where the basic design sat performance wise, there is scope for improvement in some areas.
I generally resist using parts like Duelunds and try to wring every ounce of performance other ways before resorting to them - they
just don't represent good value for money in the scheme of things. But if users want to upgrade that is fine.
For the next batch the following improvements are planned:
- Better quality resistors
- Better quality caps (where electro are now)
- oscillator itself will be same generic type but higher spec model with a)slightly low phase noise b) 5 to 10 x lower
sensitivity to vibrationally induced jitter.
- Proper custom designed pcb with optimised layout for noise etc.
My aim is to get the performance past the level of the clock now (with duelunds) but without needing them.
cheers
T
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My aim is to get the performance past the level of the clock now (with duelunds) but without needing them.
cheers
T
Now that won't be easy terry not impossible just a lot of R&D to do it,i will also be interested to achieve performance of a duelund fitted clock with other parts in the chain to match it.
-
Hi Terry, nice clock. ;D
Interesting, a mark 2 so soon. :-[
It would be good to get some of the gains that the expensive caps brought by better design. If a better specked crystal is already available was this sent out as a teaser - taster?
I could not bear sending out something which I knew could be improved so easily and that's probably why I am not a manufacturer, of course there is yardage in having a PCB which can accept bigger better components as demonstrated by others. I would suggest a strategy of basic, advanced and ultra types so people can buy in at the basic and move up with possibly trade in allowances along the way. Now if the freq could be set by dip switches you'd probably not be able to keep up with demand! ;D
Get in quick before computer audio dominates the couch potato world of audio, not the way I want to buy my music. ;) but don't mind replaying it via a NAS etc. At least with a Silver disk you cannot suffer disk failures and loose all that expensive download.
V
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Hi Terry, nice clock. ;D
Interesting, a mark 2 so soon. :-[
Mark 2 ? so far its only in development stage (R&D) so its not even a mark1 just a prototype.
-
Where do we order one??
If it's here put me down for 1 please. :P
Do we have a time frame when the first batch will be ready? ???
Has Stevenvalve tried the prototype in his system yet?
And what happened to the pic's??
Cheers, flemo.
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Where do we order one??
If it's here put me down for 1 please. :P
Do we have a time frame when the first batch will be ready? ???
Has Stevenvalve tried the prototype in his system yet?
And what happened to the pic's??
Cheers, flemo.
Are you the expediter around here ;D
Clock pcb is being designed. The actual oscillator in the zenclock proto is a very high spec unit and expensive.
I'm just jumping through hoops with supplier to make sure that spec can be consistently duplicated.
What frequency do you need?
I'll be going up to SV's in a few days - have a had a bad flu and I want to make sure it's fully gone b4 I go up there.
T
-
Hey T,
Just wanted to make sure I was able to get one and wasn't sure how many you were producing in this batch, or when the next batch would be. Plus I wasn't sure how to get my name on the list. :o
I'm after one to suit a CD94.
Cheers, flemo.
-
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/kajak12/Zenoclock2.jpg)
A photo of killer crystal
I cant post more photos at this present time as zenelectro is trying to get a patent :D
-
I couldn't see the Duelund caps!! :)
-
I couldn't see the Duelund caps!! :)
Out of site out of mind :P
-
(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/kajak12/Zenoclock2.jpg)
A photo of killer crystal
I cant post more photos at this present time as zenelectro is trying to get a patent :D
Patent, ha ha. :-X There is no chance of that ever happening, the only way to protect the 'design' is to pot it and insert ball bearings to prevent easy cutting. ::) ::)
Hurry up Terry, Mario has almost hung himeself in dissapointment not having more zen tee hee :P :P and I for one will be looking to be added to the list of me me and me and don't forget me. ;D
V
-
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
-
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
You sure? $2k offer, no? ;D
-
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
You sure? $2k offer, no? ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock ,for that money i can fit it out terry's clock with duellund caps all the way through and gold plated battery terminals. ;D
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Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
You sure? $2k offer, no? ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock
Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it! :)
-
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
You sure? $2k offer, no? ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock
Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it! :)
i dont know anybody with a cd94/wadia in melbourne
-
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
You sure? $2k offer, no? ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock
Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it! :)
i dont know anybody with a cd94/wadia in melbourne
Hi guys :)
I think zenclock is getting travel sickness.
WRT my second batch and the long wait, there is good reason for this which has nothing to do with any lack of
productivity or motivation on my part.
I needed to find an oscillator supplier that could guarantee specified performance but at a reasonable price.
A little bit of insight into clocks follows: Although there is major importance in the design of power supply, component
choice etc, the most important factor, especially for good low frequency phase noise is the quality and cut of the crystal itself.
This is why many people have noted differences in same brand of oscillators.
I have already spoken to suppliers of super spec oscillators and it is no problem to get clocks with phase noise
specs in the same range as MSB Galaxy - however it puts the cost out of the range of most DIY users which is
not much fun.
My aim was and still is to have around this level of performance but at a price that is not stupid.
cheers
Terry
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Thanks Terry, nothing better than a world-class product at reasonable price. :)
-
Quick update.
After many months of endless looking, negotiation, dead ends, etc etc - I have finally secured a supplier of oscillators that will make
custom oscillators with guaranteed, repeatable consistent performance.
In the process we actually upped the spec in a number of areas including the type of crystal used - normally for aerospace applications.
A secondary benefit is this type of crystal has less sensitivity to vibration or 'G' induced jitter.
I have the first one being shipped to me now. I also have actual performance plots of this (11.2896MHz) clock - it is nothing short of exceptional in every regard.
Boards being done ATM.
-
I am in for 1 when they are ready 8)
-
Awesome Terry! What voltage is required to power the board/chip? I was hoping can tap the power from somewhere inside me Marantz CD75 SE MK2?
Trying to keep it all packed into the one stock player case, except for the 2 valves sticking out from the valve output stage 8)
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Awesome Terry! What voltage is required to power the board/chip? I was hoping can tap the power from somewhere inside me Marantz CD75 SE MK2?
Trying to keep it all packed into the one stock player case, except for the 2 valves sticking out from the valve output stage 8)
WRT, powering from internal, sorry that will not be possible, this puppy pulls huge current.
I will have 2 boards, 1 as per Mr Kajak's which needs 12V DC IP presumably from a battery
The other will be a small transformer /rectifier / caps to supply 12V DC.
You should still be able to fit it in to the standard case.
I am also looking at doing an I2S OP board for CD94 so we can preserve all the 'goodness' of the clock so to speak.
It depends how many people are interested.
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Cool!
http://jpegbay.com/gallery/000592941-2.html#2 (http://jpegbay.com/gallery/000592941-2.html#2)
Quite a lot of space in the cd75, so should be right to fit the necessary bits to power it. Although only wanting to mod the cd player on-the-cheap, as it is not my primary digital source. Final price for the kit will be the main determinate in my case.
Thanks mate
-
Good news Terry,
I will be interested in pricing, when available.
-
Me too Terry for my Sony cdp 502es.
-
Hi Terry
"I am also looking at doing an I2S OP board for CD94 so we can preserve all the 'goodness' of the clock so to speak.
It depends how many people are interested."
Count me in here please, I like the 'front end - back end' approach to de jittering the system.
V
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Hi Terry
"I am also looking at doing an I2S OP board for CD94 so we can preserve all the 'goodness' of the clock so to speak.
It depends how many people are interested."
Count me in here please, I like the 'front end - back end' approach to de jittering the system.
V
count me in if its zen its good
-
Great news about the clocks. Can't wait to get my hands on 1.
I am also looking at doing an I2S OP board for CD94 so we can preserve all the 'goodness' of the clock so to speak.
T, when you say preserve, are you adding an output buffer to ensure a strong signal?
-
Kajak - 2 clocks coming at ya :P :P
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Very nice! Are those copper plate? How thick? I can only find 2mm here in Sydney.
Cheers,
William
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Very nice! Are those copper plate? How thick? I can only find 2mm here in Sydney.
Cheers,
William
Double sided pcb. I often use it for bashing stuff up.
-
Kajak - 2 clocks coming at ya :P :P
Well after kajak12 audition the price doubles
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Very nice! Are those copper plate? How thick? I can only find 2mm here in Sydney.
Cheers,
William
Sorry off topic
William,
Try this website for copper sheet
You will need to ring them to see what off cuts are available
http://www.georgewhite.com.au/products/product_listing.asp?categorycode=CP-HG
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Very nice! Are those copper plate? How thick? I can only find 2mm here in Sydney.
Cheers,
William
What do you want to do with the copper?
2 mm is pretty thick.
cheers
T
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Hi Terry,
Amplifier top plate for chassis
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Hi Terry,
Amplifier top plate for chassis
If you melt down the copper from all the hifi you have accumulated over the years you should get 20mm thick top plate chassis ;)
-
Hi Terry,
Amplifier top plate for chassis
Yeah for amp chassis, I can still use the 2mm but I need to put extra structural supports for the heavy irons on the top, with 4 or 5mm I may not need to do that much.
Thanks for the link Graham.
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Hi Terry,
Amplifier top plate for chassis
Yeah for amp chassis, I can still use the 2mm but I need to put extra structural supports for the heavy irons on the top, with 4 or 5mm I may not need to do that much.
Thanks for the link Graham.
2.0mm copper plate is very strong - surely that is thick enough.
Do you have any returns (folds) in it?
Can we see a photo.
-
Hi T,
No folds, just a flat copper sheet to mount all the parts like a traditional tube amp.
I have no pictures at the moment and it's not here with me (at Steven's). It is currently built on a 16mm marine ply, very strong ply, but as Graham has seen it's starting to curve a little bit because it's sustaining a heavy pressure from the irons on top. With 2mm copper plate, I'm afraid it may bend even more...
Cheers,
William
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The zen clock is finished and ready for production i have the final version now with just stock caps ;) ;) ;) ;)
i am all clocked out
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Great news kajak12.
zenelectro, please put my name in for an order. I'll send the money when I get your bank/paypal details ;)
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Great news kajak12.
zenelectro, please put my name in for an order. I'll send the money when I get your bank/paypal details ;)
No worries.
Many thanks to Mr Kajak for help with this, his enthusiasm is incredible.
These clocks have been a real challenge, showing that just super low jitter / high engineering specs don't necessarily get great sound.
In the end I got both, but the crystal suppliers design engineers would have a fit seeing me with dremel in hand, cutting the lid off
and doing open heart surgery on those precious high spec clock protos.
-
Hand up. My clock is in need of upgrading. ;D
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Hand up. My clock is in need of upgrading. ;D
So is my clock this new clock is above mk1 version
zenelectro no more upgrades i cant keep up :'( :'(
-
:o Well I finally managed to get to hear the revised Zen Electro CD clock upgrade board and all I can say is wow. :o
Having heard the previous incarnation I had my appetite wetted and lusted after a replacement for my fairly basic setup. Patience has it's rewards. The new version kicks in the teeth any ideas that digital sounds artificial, gone is all edge and hardness and in its place is beautiful flowing music which can now finally go head to head with expensive turntable setups with high price step-ups and MC cartridges. Think this is an overstatement, well I challenge you to try for yourself; I can see a new elite bunch of folk who are not prepared to cough up the 5 to 10k for a flash external box re-clocker but who will part with the cash for a Zen electro clock. Of course some sacrifices are required to reach this level including a hefty 12 v battery and some Dueland pwr supply bypass caps but it's small change for the improvements wrought. 16 bit digital has never sounded so natural, so large and so real to my ears and I have heard some very expensive setups which pail into insignificance against the KDAC and Zen clock combo.
System clock was used in: Marantz CD94, KDAC, passive alps blue, custom EL34 amp, Lm1 refs.
The overall impression is the increase in natural flow to the music, the rhythm, pace, heft (read dynamic weight) and finesse. It goes beyond bravura and digs deeper into the musical cupboard to reveal new shades of deep rich sound.
Are there any downsides to the Zen implementation, well compared to the Triclock 3 you do not get the same razor spotlight instrument placement within the sound stage but this pales in comparison to the organic flow and natural timing which makes the T3 sound somewhat artificial in comparison.
So what will this all cost, well if you can use a soldering iron reasonably well then factor in less than around 500 dollars for the Zen Clock board, 2 Dueland caps and a 12 volt battery of at least 20AH and the charger if you don’t already own a car battery charging unit. In audio terms this is a relatively speaking, a bargain as you can blow this on a single cap and get less of an important change / improvement.
I suggest people on this forum who have not succumbed to the audio death by squeeze box and still have the enthusiasm to get off their backsides to change silver discs make a bee line for Zen Electros door and shout and rant to get him to start the production line.
V ;D
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Many thanks Vita,
Wow - Only just noticed this.
Yes, when I first got MK2 clock sample it sounded very detailed and sharp. Had to do some mods to get the music back.
cheers
Z
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Many thanks Vita,
Wow - Only just noticed this.
Yes, when I first got MK2 clock sample it sounded very detailed and sharp. Had to do some mods to get the music back.
cheers
Z
:) Credit where credits due. To be able to bring such a significant upgrade to CD replay after almost 30 years of silver disks is most welcome and for all those who have had the sense to not ditch their silver disk spinners for some new 'kings clothes' they too will be able to enjoy replay at another level altogether from their hotrodded Zenclock machines. This is not one of those subtle changes where yes there might be slightly better xyz, this is as obvious as the nose on your face, never have I heard such liquidity and natural flow from CD replay and beleive me I have 20 CD players here at home with some fairly expensive esoteric pieces and they pail into insignificance in comparison. A new King is born, all hail the King.
V :D
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My cd94 is crying out for a zenclock !!
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Whats the latest on the zenclock?
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Sounds great, T - excellent work!
Having just bought crazikid's Wadia ;D (with Burson clock), it sounds like i *need* to put a Zen clock in it! (once i put out the fire in my wallet, that is...!) :o
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Sounds great, T - excellent work!
Having just bought crazikid's Wadia ;D (with Burson clock), it sounds like i *need* to put a Zen clock in it! (once i put out the fire in my wallet, that is...!) :o
don't worry credit cards are replaceable an understanding wife now thats another matter ;)
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Sounds great, T - excellent work!
Having just bought crazikid's Wadia ;D (with Burson clock), it sounds like i *need* to put a Zen clock in it! (once i put out the fire in my wallet, that is...!) :o
don't worry credit cards are replaceable an understanding wife now thats another matter ;)
Can't wait to see rab's wife's reaction when she sees his horn setup ;D
Edit: still waiting for the zen clock...been a long wait but I'm not giving up! 8)
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Look what came today
:) :) :)
-
:-* 8)
-
V cool 8)
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V cool 8)
I will have a spare soon ;)
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Hi guys
Any updates.....is it for sale as a product etc...
Does anybody knows about the Dexa Neutron Clock...or where to post questions....I wonder where to place it...together with the Zen and Trichord :D
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Hi guys
Any updates.....is it for sale as a product etc...
Does anybody knows about the Dexa Neutron Clock...or where to post questions....I wonder where to place it...together with the Zen and Trichord :D
They should be out very soon i know zenelectro was very busy with medical work lately so i expect them in this month
Dexa Neutron Clock never heard of it
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Okay I will buy one...try it out and let you know how the Dexa performs....oh how I love to be the pioneer ;D
-
Hi guys
Any updates.....is it for sale as a product etc...
Does anybody knows about the Dexa Neutron Clock...or where to post questions....I wonder where to place it...together with the Zen and Trichord :D
They should be out very soon i know zenelectro was very busy with medical work lately so i expect them in this month
Dexa Neutron Clock never heard of it
Yay!!! 8)
-
Ordered today the Dexa with its psu
I will test it against the Tent with its psu and the Trichord 4 with the NC psu.... ;)
It is rather disapointing when you google for clock shootouts....not many around... :(
What you Do get is furiuos discussions about how people assume how clocks will sound....behhhhhhh :P
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Hi Erik
What frequency does your transport require?
Are you using I2S OP and how is it implemented?
WRT zenclocks, yes apologies to all I have had a spate of repair work and other stuff (medical).
I'm currently re evaluating my business, the plan is to basically phase repairs out over the next year.
Too much time / not enough money. Although I have a very good rep WRT quality - It's not something I enjoy and
it can be really stressful.
WRT Dexa - OK maybe I need to put my prices up.
The biggest factor in clock is the crystal itself, then power supply, circuit etc etc.
My clocks use a large ovenised oscillator with a different cut, custom made crystal (SC) that are very expensive.
All of these aftermarket clocks are using standard AT cut crystals which are much cheaper.
They only exception I know is the MSB Galaxy ($10k).
WRT reviews of clocks, I did a lot of research before building the zenclock and found opinions and results
are all over the place.
You can basically divide it as such: clean / clinical versus warm musical and everything in between.
The Tent seems to be on the clean side, stuff like Kwak clock is the other extreme.
To make matters more complicated power supply has a big effect on all this.
There is also vibrational induced jitter.
When I did first zenclock I thought I was going to have to design a 'jitter adding' circuit to add some
random level of low level jitter to make the clock sound musical. As it turns out just tweaking the power supply
was enough.
Damn finicky stuff.
cheers
Z
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Hi Zen,
Thanks for the quick summary....I fully agree
16.9 for my Mini PiTbull
The JVC chip has no I2S
I will listen to the Dexa Trichord Tent...my presumption will be soundwise in that order but that is because I already experienced myself that Trichord sounds better than Tent (to my ears in my set up etc)....could also be its psu but hey I always by them with their dedicated psu...so the experiment is always a two printboard job and as fair as possible.
-
Hi Zen,
Thanks for the quick summary....I fully agree
16.9 for my Mini PiTbull
The JVC chip has no I2S
I will listen to the Dexa Trichord Tent...my presumption will be soundwise in that order but that is because I already experienced myself that Trichord sounds better than Tent (to my ears in my set up etc)....could also be its psu but hey I always by them with their dedicated psu...so the experiment is always a two printboard job and as fair as possible.
Erik,
zenclock only available in 11.2896 ATM.
Your choice of Sanyo / JVC parts for transport using spdif is interesting.
I think the best option is run I2S / 11.2896, use proper I2S implementation then start juggling the power
supply for clock / I2S driver to tune the sound.
All these different transports / chipsets are adding certain flavour of jitter that sounds good.
With proper I2S you can get rid of, to a large degree, these variables but then I am pretty sure
sound will head in clinical / sterile direction. So you then need to tune the power supplies
to get it back.
I'll be doing a few I2S conversions in a little while and we'll see where the cards fall.
cheers
Zen
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Choice is made based on sheer listening.....figures will probably be appaling....but then again one does not want to measure tubes.... :D
It is all based on the shigaclone on the DIY usa forum...only I give it my own arrogant twist.....as usual :D
-
Choice is made based on sheer listening.....figures will probably be appaling....but then again one does not want to measure tubes.... :D
It is all based on the shigaclone on the DIY usa forum...only I give it my own arrogant twist.....as usual :D
Hi Erik,
I have a lot of admiration for your work - it's really high quality. You are capable of some incredible stuff.
However I think with shigaclocne - you are aiming way below your potential - without even realizing it.
I am sure it sounds very good, but the fundamental approach is not there for me.
cheers
Zen
-
Hi Zen,
I have made my PiTbull with it .....and a Mini PiTbull Mark I, so it is pretty much a safe journey.
You are misguided by the inferior parts which is quite a normal reaction (I was full disbelieve as well) but even een unmodded straight out of the boombox shows potential like you would not believe....you hear an analog quality you never heard before....the other qualities like PraT imaging the usual are not there (yet).
The chip-laser synergy (see Lab47) is here the miracleworker...so useless to start with a Philips Pro as drive....
Once I have finished with it, it even gets a whole new extra level and is turntable reference.
I know you are now about to call me a doctor....but the old saying " hearing is believing" is so true in this case.
All the estabished names (Wadia Mark Levinson CEC etc) are..........gone...when thisfinished product fires up.
I admit you have to modify like crazy to achieve the latter but the point is....it can be done.
-
When I did first zenclock I thought I was going to have to design a 'jitter adding' circuit to add some
random level of low level jitter to make the clock sound musical. As it turns out just tweaking the power supply
was enough.
Do i understand that your aim was to develop a low jitter clock (to ignore for a moment the complex spectral properties of jitter in general), but that the jitter of your clock as you initially developed it was too low, so you had to modify the power supply to add some jitter back...?
-
When I did first zenclock I thought I was going to have to design a 'jitter adding' circuit to add some
random level of low level jitter to make the clock sound musical. As it turns out just tweaking the power supply
was enough.
Do i understand that your aim was to develop a low jitter clock (to ignore for a moment the complex spectral properties of jitter in general), but that the jitter of your clock as you initially developed it was too low, so you had to modify the power supply to add some jitter back...?
Not quite.
I developed a second generation zenclock which had substantially lower jitter by measurement.
Subjectively it wasn't quite right. It was better in every 'technical' sense but less musical.
After liaising with the oscillator manufacturers, I found they had used a low noise, low dropout IC regulator inside the can.
Lots of people use these for clock supplies. I replaced this with a discrete, low noise reg of my own design and the sound was right.
Theoretically, my discrete reg actually has lower noise than the IC one they used. But I don't have measuring equipment
good enough to measure the jitter after reg change. Also the layout was different - it could have gone slightly either
way (more or less jitter).
Regardless, it retained all the previous positive attributes and also sounded musically right.
So in fact, I am not driven totally by measurements, the final arbiter is listening.
I just used measurements to get the foundations right and did final tweaking based on how it sounded.
Z
-
Are you putting Auricaps in them Zen?
I understand Mario got good results with Duelands. I dont have Duelands lying around, but I do have some Jensons. What cap values can I use with your clock?
-
Are you putting Auricaps in them Zen?
I understand Mario got good results with Duelands. I dont have Duelands lying around, but I do have some Jensons. What cap values can I use with your clock?
I'm using solen for the main ref voltage filter cap. They actually only need a pretty small value of cap.
You will also get very good results with pretty standard caps.
Z
-
Cool. Well I have a couple of 1uf paper in oil type jensens lying around, that i picked up off Crazikid.
Might be interesting to see how it compares to the solen?
-
Are you putting Auricaps in them Zen?
I understand Mario got good results with Duelands. I dont have Duelands lying around, but I do have some Jensons. What cap values can I use with your clock?
I use 2uf duelunds
-
Cool. Well I have a couple of 1uf paper in oil type jensens lying around, that i picked up off Crazikid.
Might be interesting to see how it compares to the solen?
very different will depend on your system i had used both ages ago........
-
Hi Zen,
I have made my PiTbull with it .....and a Mini PiTbull Mark I, so it is pretty much a safe journey.
You are misguided by the inferior parts which is quite a normal reaction (I was full disbelieve as well) but even een unmodded straight out of the boombox shows potential like you would not believe....you hear an analog quality you never heard before....the other qualities like PraT imaging the usual are not there (yet).
The chip-laser synergy (see Lab47) is here the miracleworker...so useless to start with a Philips Pro as drive....
Once I have finished with it, it even gets a whole new extra level and is turntable reference.
I know you are now about to call me a doctor....but the old saying " hearing is believing" is so true in this case.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Erik. ;D I'm just not convinced that the Shigaclone is the way to go.
I was reading today - one Shigaclone owner installed a FIFO (memory buffer to remove jitter) together with low jitter Crystek clock
and experienced a massive improvement in sound.
All the estabished names (Wadia Mark Levinson CEC etc) are..........gone...when thisfinished product fires up.
I admit you have to modify like crazy to achieve the latter but the point is....it can be done.
I think you are right, it takes a lot of modifying work. But you need to start with the best foundation, which means
I2S and a decent clocking scheme. The shiga has niether.
But I can see you have put a lot of work into this, achieved a nice result so in this case, we all find our own path.
Z
-
I agree to disagree... ;)
But believe me if I would think there is a better combo available to give it a headstart I would most certainly buy it...incl a complete transport to modify... :D
i have a Translight AT&T as a digital out (superregulated and dedicated psu) and a heavy modified Genesis Digital Lens on the Pitbull.
-
I imagine the jensens are darker, richer and smoother, but hang on, it's just 1's and 0's we're talking about isnt it?
:P 8)
-
I imagine the jensens are darker, richer and smoother, but hang on, it's just 1's and 0's we're talking about isnt it?
:P 8)
What colour do you want your 1's and 0's :) :)
-
Red, because it's faster :P
-
Next batch looking good.
Just about done.
-
Next batch looking good.
Just about done.
Looking real good Terry can't wait!
Just have to decide what transport to modify :o
-
A real pity I cannot test it... :( (16.93)
Anyway respect and love the persistence to pull it off 8)
-
Next batch looking good.
Just about done.
Thats good news then as holding my breath was effecting my audio health ;D
Differences in lay out too by the looks of it.
V
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valab-Gold-Plated-0-3PPM-11-2896-MHz-Low-Jitter-Low-Phase-Noise-TCXO-/281035053490?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416efe99b2
gold plated hmmm zenelectro needs to update
-
Naaaa, more link all bling and no sing...................... :P
V
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Valab-Gold-Plated-0-3PPM-11-2896-MHz-Low-Jitter-Low-Phase-Noise-TCXO-/281035053490?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416efe99b2
gold plated hmmm zenelectro needs to update
You can have them platinum plated if you l like - at a cost! :)
-
gold plated hmmm
Might as well waste money on supratek bling :P
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Finished and working perfectly. Will send a few to Kajak to compare.
I think these might be even better, nicer layout.
No more hand built clocks after this. Next batch will be on pcb's
ZZZZZZZ
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Looking very good Terry, nothing beats top quality hand-built stuff! Mr. Kajak12 - QC Inspector, please update us when you get the comparison done. 8)
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Wow!
Save one for me Terry I'll touch base soon ;D
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Serious piece of work. Makes my Burson clock look cheap and nasty.
Excitement is building now. Cant wait to put it in. :D
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Serious piece of work. Makes my Burson clock look cheap and nasty.
Excitement is building now. Cant wait to put it in. :D
It will be interesting to see (hear) what the differences are between the Burson and Zenclock.
It should be pretty damn good, I put a lot of work into these and the layout was
a little better which seemed to cut down the HF noise a little.
Z
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I switched quite easy with three clocks on the board and the result...Tent clock the least....Tricord second best and as very clear winner the Dexa... :o
Each had the designers own psu.
I have implemented the winner in my two Mini-Pitbulls (both belonging to audiobuddies) and will implement it in my PiTbull as well soon.
Pity yours does not come in 16.9 otherwise I would have been more than happy to install a fourth clock in my private mini shooutout :D
(http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76211.0;attach=123932;image)
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Better pic showing the clocks with miniconnectors ...see yellow tubing on the right hand side... ;)
(http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76211.0;attach=123839)
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I switched quite easy with three clocks on the board and the result...Tent clock the least....Tricord second best and as very clear winner the Dexa... :o
Each had the designers own psu.
I have implemented the winner in my two Mini-Pitbulls (both belonging to audiobuddies) and will implement it in my PiTbull as well soon.
Pity yours does not come in 16.9 otherwise I would have been more than happy to install a fourth clock in my private mini shooutout :D
(http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76211.0;attach=123932;image)
The Dexa Neutron star certainly looks very good. Looks like they went to a lot of trouble to optimise it. You do pay for it though.
Having said that, they still use an AT-cut crystal, non-ovenised oscillator. No matter how good the surrounding circuitry is
it can potentially never equal a good ovenised clock with a higher quality crystal.
It's a bummer you have 16 meg frequency, I'd love you to try the zen clock.
cheers
Z
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Better pic showing the clocks with miniconnectors ...see yellow tubing on the right hand side... ;)
(http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76211.0;attach=123839)
Eric,
Another thing that is -very- important.
You must place the clocks right next to the input where they feed and directly join the grounds or
make this connection as short as possible.
It is very probable that the Dexa actually won because it has a transformer at the OP which
makes a longer connection, especially with the HF shielded cable work -much- better and isolates
the grounds.
This was a very smart move on their behalf because all too often a huge part of the differences in
clocks that people hear is from their poor implementation WRT grounds, transmission length.
In the past I have done a test where 2 after market clocks were compared, one obviously better.
The loser had around 80mm longer length of cable connecting it to board. Once the cable was
shortened to 20mm and the clock moved closer, both were virtually identical.
I would advise for the tricord and tent, for the playing field to be equal, they must be mounted
-right- next to the destination board with very short connections, especially the ground. Further to this it's worth experimenting
with the clock OP resistor size. Too small (or none) will give the fastest rise time and potentially lowest jitter but
will induce ringing and bounce. As you make the resistor larger the wave will get cleaner but the sound will change.
There will be a happy medium somewhere. The type of resistor is important too - non magnetic.
Now, having said all of the above, I'm not discounting that the Dexa is the best, but merely that to get best results from
any clock requires careful attention to details.
cheers
Z
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(http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/kajak12/moddedtrichordclock_zps75e45777.jpg)
my trichord clock modded running off a 12v battery (car)
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Mario, you must have been a butcher in another life
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my trichord clock modded running off a 12v battery (car)
Hi Mario,
Have you tested the new batch of zenclock yet? I'm eagerly waiting to know your opinion.
Thanks,
William
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my trichord clock modded running off a 12v battery (car)
Hi Mario,
Have you tested the new batch of zenclock yet? I'm eagerly waiting to know your opinion.
Thanks,
William
haven't arrived yet due early next week
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Hi Zen
Thanks for sharing your experience...much appreciated
Funny enought the Dexa had the longest wire of the three by far...since I did not want to cut the original shielded one. (see photo with the long cable at the edge of the board)
Anyway I will take good note of what you said.
I guess upgrading the non ovenised clock in the Dexa with a better one is a nono...since the circuit is probably tailormade to the one in use...?
Can you point out what resistor you mean
Thanks again ;)
Edit: The transformer was important for the long cable as you explained...missed that bit :D
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Hi Zen
Thanks for sharing your experience...much appreciated
Funny enought the Dexa had the longest wire of the three by far...since I did not want to cut the original shielded one. (see photo with the long cable at the edge of the board)
I think the Dexa would have the best transmission of the clock signal as it has the OP transformer and shielded cable which it would be designed
to work optimally with. Again, a smart move on their part.
Anyway I will take good note of what you said.
It's probably a moot point as you appear to be pretty happy to live with the Dexa, however I'm sure the other two would benefit from
very short gnd and signal line.
I guess upgrading the non ovenised clock in the Dexa with a better one is a nono...since the circuit is probably tailormade to the one in use...?
The Dexa is optimised within it's own design. If you were to upgrade to ovenised just do the whole thing. But 16 meg hard to get.
I would probably keep that transport as a reference and make another one with 11.2896 clock, I2S OP done right and
compare the two.
Can you point out what resistor you mean
The clock OP - see 'series termination in following:
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CF0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ultracad.com%2Fmentor%2Fmentor%2520termination%2520placement.pdf&ei=7cpgUfWPLIfZigevzoHwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGjxVbBLNxXpBWfDtZQd6_0sBz2Bw&sig2=ZvBmbFMuIqoeK9aiW5vR-g
cheers
Z
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Thanks ;)
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Zen clock is running no mods with duelunds yet,sounds good needs running in for people interested contact zen i can send them from here directly
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I'm ready when you guys are ! :D
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clock are going to be shipped soon to zen for little mods
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A couple of questions for you guys. The I2S leads (looks like CAT6) on my Wadia 3200 transport are too short to reach from my transport to my kdac if i put them side-by-side, so i presently have the DAC sitting directly on top of the transport.
Q1: Obviously, shorter leads are always better, but does anyone have any experience or at least advice on whether there would be any performance penalty if I used longer leads so that i could put the DAC and transport side-by-side?
Q2: Am i mistaken to think that doing so would be better? In general i like to space my gear apart (vibration, magnetic fields, etc), but maybe it's actually a good idea to have them on top of one another? (Weight on the transport: reduced resonance etc). Incidentally, the transport is sitting on a sheet of slate that is supported by 4 squash balls... and boy are they squashed now, after supporting both units for a few months now...!
Thoughts?
- r.
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Hi Rab
I have mine side by side as I didnt want them on top of each other due to vibration problems and isolation being a hassle if they are on top of each other. I have my Wadia facing front on and my Kdac slightly facing away from the Wadia and the front of the room so the CAT5 wire from the back RHS of the Kdac is very close to the back RHS of the Wadia.
I cant remember the measurement of wire from Wadia to Kdac and I'm not at home now but I'll check and get back to you tmro. Somwherew between 20 to 25cm I think. It seems to work well.
Nathan
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26cm from chassis to chassis with loose wire. If it was tight it would be around 27 to 28cm long.
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I didnt want exposed wire running between transport and dac, as I've got young boys who like to fiddle.
So I got Danny to fit an output buffer to boost the strength of my i2s signals, and I run 3 x 70cm digital interconnects. Many techs who are familiar with i2s scoff at this, as it wasnt design to run over a distance. But Dannys work is impeccable, and it works a treat for me.
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Short as possible, because the A chip is not designed to drive cable.
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Short as possible, because the A chip is not designed to drive cable.
In my case, the A chip is talking to the buffer, the buffer then drives the cables. Works a treat.
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Short as possible, because the A chip is not designed to drive cable.
In my case, the A chip is talking to the buffer, the buffer then drives the cables. Works a treat.
Nice one Oz.
I have just sent down Danny my Wadia today to adjust the laser as it keeps skipping and activate the i2s muting function as well as a new belt kit while he is at it. Then its on to Z for a new Zen clock.
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Hey Guys, I've had the pleasure of running a Zenelectro KillerClock for over 4 weeks now, and I can safely say it is a significant step forward over the Burson clock I was using.
Not sure if T has a finalised design yet, but it would be close. On first listen, the system was a little on the "cool" side, but a slight tweak to the clock fixed that, and the result is greater clarity and musicality. That is a combination that is hard for anyone to achieve, as we usually find 1 or the other being improved.
I'm really happy with what I'm hearing. Thanks T.
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Hey Guys, I've had the pleasure of running a Zenelectro KillerClock for over 4 weeks now, and I can safely say it is a significant step forward over the Burson clock I was using.
Not sure if T has a finalised design yet, but it would be close. On first listen, the system was a little on the "cool" side, but a slight tweak to the clock fixed that, and the result is greater clarity and musicality. That is a combination that is hard for anyone to achieve, as we usually find 1 or the other being improved.
I'm really happy with what I'm hearing. Thanks T.
Looks like i will bring my zen clock down to compare
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Hey Guys, I've had the pleasure of running a Zenelectro KillerClock for over 4 weeks now, and I can safely say it is a significant step forward over the Burson clock I was using.
Not sure if T has a finalised design yet, but it would be close. On first listen, the system was a little on the "cool" side, but a slight tweak to the clock fixed that, and the result is greater clarity and musicality. That is a combination that is hard for anyone to achieve, as we usually find 1 or the other being improved.
I'm really happy with what I'm hearing. Thanks T.
Looks like i will bring my zen clock down to compare
Thanks Oz very much appreciated.
The clocks are pretty sorted, what I am doing now is I2S OP re clocking. This re aligns the I2S signals with original clock.
They (I2S) are generated in 'A' chip (7210) however that chip itself would degrade the clock to some degree.
Kajak - You keep that damn thing in Perth - it's a freak of nature! :)
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Mario's a bit of a FON himself but I hear you have met him so you would know :P :P :P :P
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Good to know Oz. My Wadia transport is on Z's bench atm with new clock installed.
The finishing touches to the 12V battery supply are being finalised including a 3 pin xlr input on the rear of the transport for battery input and a mini toggle for battery on/off which is pretty damn neat. The battery will be fused with a xlr connection lead.
It should be a significant upgrade from the stock clock in the Wadia whatever that is.
I should have it back in the next week or so. It will be very nice indeed to fire the Killer back up and re-emerse myself with quality 2 channel.
My ears have adjusted to a lesser quality so I will be in for a treat.
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Looks like i will bring my zen clock down to compare
;D Bring it at your own risk. House rules are,,,,, any components that improve the system, stay on the system. :P 8)
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Looks like i will bring my zen clock down to compare
;D Bring it at your own risk. House rules are,,,,, any components that improve the system, stay on the system. :P 8)
LOL oz i have duelunds on my clock so it should be better
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Hey Guys, I've had the pleasure of running a Zenelectro KillerClock for over 4 weeks now, and I can safely say it is a significant step forward over the Burson clock I was using.
Not sure if T has a finalised design yet, but it would be close. On first listen, the system was a little on the "cool" side, but a slight tweak to the clock fixed that, and the result is greater clarity and musicality. That is a combination that is hard for anyone to achieve, as we usually find 1 or the other being improved.
I'm really happy with what I'm hearing. Thanks T.
Ive had the Zen clock installed in my Wadia transport for a few weeks now. It replaced the original standard clock it came with. I'm very very happy with the results I'm getting. I agree with Oz that it has increased clarity which is all well and good but to get an increase in musicality as well is a big bang for the buck. Better proportioned sound-stage, more fluid and engaging with a better sense of the richness of timbres. Defiantly a very good value for money upgrade in my opinion and one I would not want to live without.
At first listen the sound was analytical and with no texture or feeling but after leaving powered up for a few days it really came to life. I left it powered up for another couple of weeks while playing music intermittently and it just kept warming up and things kept getting better.
Very happy camper.
Nathan
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Hey Guys, I've had the pleasure of running a Zenelectro KillerClock for over 4 weeks now, and I can safely say it is a significant step forward over the Burson clock I was using.
Not sure if T has a finalised design yet, but it would be close. On first listen, the system was a little on the "cool" side, but a slight tweak to the clock fixed that, and the result is greater clarity and musicality. That is a combination that is hard for anyone to achieve, as we usually find 1 or the other being improved.
I'm really happy with what I'm hearing. Thanks T.
Ive had the Zen clock installed in my Wadia transport for a few weeks now. It replaced the original standard clock it came with. I'm very very happy with the results I'm getting. I agree with Oz that it has increased clarity which is all well and good but to get an increase in musicality as well is a big bang for the buck. Better proportioned sound-stage, more fluid and engaging with a better sense of the richness of timbres. Defiantly a very good value for money upgrade in my opinion and one I would not want to live without.
At first listen the sound was analytical and with no texture or feeling but after leaving powered up for a few days it really came to life. I left it powered up for another couple of weeks while playing music intermittently and it just kept warming up and things kept getting better.
Very happy camper.
Nathan
Thanks Nathan,
Great to see you're enjoying it.
Looks like I'm going to have to really run these clocks in for a long time.
cheers
Terry
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I've also found that the cdm1 transport itself needs some settling, after being moved. If you've just unpacked the upgraded wadia and plugged it in, a few days run time sounds about right.
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I think that is defiantly the case. My ears often need run in time as well when I upgrade something significant :D
My system holds itself together at volume as well now. Previously it shat its pants during complicated and busy passages at volume but now without the glare and sheen it holds itself together much better. Yesterday I listened to the Beatles love soundtrack CD and it was the first time I've been able to listen to it loud and from start to finish...and it was really enjoyable. Much of the fatigue element has been removed.