The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Other DACs => Topic started by: tuyen on August 24, 2011, 12:33:14 AM
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Anyone have experience with the CS4398 DAC chip?
It seems to be liked by many in the diy community (could be due to it being readily available and quite cheap in kit form from ebay).
My interest was sparked from my recent experience with another voltage output type delta sigma based chip. The AK4393 dac (from a behringer src2496) with upsampling (CS8421 sample rate converter), with direct from dac chip out modification using a capacitor, quite impressed by the sound of this stuff. Different presentation to the TDA based dacs I've tried so far. Most noticeable point is the highs have more extension and exposed harmonics and low bass has more delicacy in the notes. It gives a very 'open' 'airy' type of presentation.. Mids don't seem have the solidity and focused/condensed energy like the TDAs do. For big orchestral pieces that have been well recorded, the 'lightness' and openness helps project a more believable stage (iMO!). I appreciate what all types of different designs do and I am really just starting to learn and enjoy them all.. no winners or losers! Just different :)
Following my personal observations written above, something like the module below may be coming... :-X
(http://i53.tinypic.com/30iktqh.png)
(CS8416 receiver, a CS8421 sample rate converter, and a CS4398 DAC chip. It uses a pair of Lundahl LL1690 1:1 transformers for the analog stage.)
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Anyone have experience with the CS4398 DAC chip?
The Marantz NA7004 (the black unit) you heard in my room is a CS4398 DAC. The one with the overloaded bass. Doesn't sound like what you described at all so far.. :(
Guessing that could be a bad implementation but still hoping it will improve further as I run it in..
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I have the Gigawork board that uses these chips T.
Sound quality is ok though I felt the Satch was the better performer when both used the universal tube output stage.
The board in the picture you posted is a work of art.
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thanks for the reply guys :)
true TJ, it could be due to the implementation in the marantz player. the board i posted, since the CS4398 is a voltage output type chip, the designer has just fed the balanced signal directly into a pair of lundahl output transformers. I would assume the marantz unit would go through a fair few more components before it hits the rca outputs. Good chance it could sound diff. We'll just have to test it out for ourselves in due course hey TJ :)
interesting stuff Gordon. Have you tried much hi-res material or just doing 16/44 stuff?
Tuyen
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true TJ, it could be due to the implementation in the marantz player. the board i posted, since the CS4398 is a voltage output type chip, the designer has just fed the balanced signal directly into a pair of lundahl output transformers. I would assume the marantz unit would go through a fair few more components before it hits the rca outputs. Good chance it could sound diff. We'll just have to test it out for ourselves in due course hey TJ :)
Are mods like this hard to do (worth doing)? Linky (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hififever.com%2Fdiscuz%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D6653%26extra%3D%26page%3D1)
Edit: Aw damn, you need to login before you can see the pics... :(
It's in Chinese but hopefully the translation will work out fine.
Something I've thinking of doing for a while, but no space to get it rolling... :(
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Have a look at this guys : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/192353-hifimediy-direct-out-cs4398-dac.html
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true TJ, it could be due to the implementation in the marantz player. the board i posted, since the CS4398 is a voltage output type chip, the designer has just fed the balanced signal directly into a pair of lundahl output transformers. I would assume the marantz unit would go through a fair few more components before it hits the rca outputs. Good chance it could sound diff. We'll just have to test it out for ourselves in due course hey TJ :)
Are mods like this hard to do (worth doing)? Linky (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hififever.com%2Fdiscuz%2Fviewthread.php%3Ftid%3D6653%26extra%3D%26page%3D1)
Edit: Aw damn, you need to login before you can see the pics... :(
It's in Chinese but hopefully the translation will work out fine.
Something I've thinking of doing for a while, but no space to get it rolling... :(
Hi Treb , yup the mods are worth doing and relatively easy as you are basically just removing components and taking the signal direct from the dac chip to either one opamp or to a pair line output transformers.
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Hi Treb , yup the mods are worth doing and relatively easy as you are basically just removing components and taking the signal direct from the dac chip to either one opamp or to a pair line output transformers.
Can you help? :p By pair line output to transformers, does it mean balanced output? or?
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Umm, trying to tap the voltage out pins from a dac chip small like the CS4398 (I did on the AK4393) requires quite a bit of experience with soldering and technique. too much heat and u will destroy the chip.. too much solder and not a fine solder tip u will join 2 pins together (then destroy chip from heat when using solder braid).. normally most guys would trace where the signal flows directly to on the pcb and access it from that (usually a tiny surface mount resistor or cap) which is also quite difficult.. so just be careful guys.. i nearly screwed up a behringer doing the same mod :)
But indeed the direct voltage out mod improves the sound tenfold. no doubt!
I can have a look for ya next time TJ? see what is involved.
Tuyen
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Sorry Treb , just realised you are talking about modding a cd player , Tuyens advice should be noted ,as always
Well I spent this arvo removing all the nasty electrolytics between the dac chip and the first opamp.I stole the signal from pins 1&7 of the opa 627's via 2 75ohm resistors to the RCA's , WOW , what an improvement over stock.
Now to find some decent output trafo's ;D and remove the remaining opamp.
I did take some pics but my card reader is on the fritz.
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Sorry Treb , just realised you are talking about modding a cd player , Tuyens advice should be noted ,as always
Well I spent this arvo removing all the nasty electrolytics between the dac chip and the first opamp.I stole the signal from pins 1&7 of the opa 627's via 2 75ohm resistors to the RCA's , WOW , what an improvement over stock.
Now to find some decent output trafo's ;D and remove the remaining opamp.
I did take some pics but my card reader is on the fritz.
Well done ozcal you never know what will happen ;)
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Cool. Thanks guys... Will bring this unit down for you guys to investigate next time when I drop by any of the usual places....
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Sorry Treb , just realised you are talking about modding a cd player , Tuyens advice should be noted ,as always
Well I spent this arvo removing all the nasty electrolytics between the dac chip and the first opamp.I stole the signal from pins 1&7 of the opa 627's via 2 75ohm resistors to the RCA's , WOW , what an improvement over stock.
Now to find some decent output trafo's ;D and remove the remaining opamp.
I did take some pics but my card reader is on the fritz.
Well done ozcal you never know what will happen ;)
Thanks Mario , fortunately for me the mods are all well docummented on Diyaudio , so it was just a case of reading through several hundred posts and trying to understand them :D
Next step is to remove the upsampling board and see how that sounds.
Will be interesting to hear how it sounds in the big system against the Satch.
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Removed the upsampling board : loss of hf detail and 'openness' but more musical.
Tried it in the big system and it sounded very ordinary compared to the Sach.
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That pic is of Sheldon's board, he addressed all the shortcomings of the Gigaworks board.
Been tempted to get one, only I don't like having to use a specific transformer even if they very good.
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That pic is of Sheldon's board, he addressed all the shortcomings of the Gigaworks board.
Been tempted to get one, only I don't like having to use a specific transformer even if they very good.
This board looks good the ground plane is awesome ;)
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That pic is of Sheldon's board, he addressed all the shortcomings of the Gigaworks board.
Been tempted to get one, only I don't like having to use a specific transformer even if they very good.
Hi D , do you have a link to the boards manufacturer?
Found it :)
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So you found this one http://getinthewoodchipper.com/?p=302
I think he sells the boards via diyaudio too.
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Yep! Iain thats the one I found.
Looks great but don't have the smd soldering skills yet.
Cheers,
G
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The boards have the main chips on them already, It's just the SMD resistors and such stopping me as well.
I think you need soldering tips to suit the job at hand.
Tempting though, isn't it ozcal?
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Yep , lovely looking board Iain though I would prefer non oversampling as that seems to sound best on my Gwork board.
Good to see you here btw :)
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Thanks Gordon, Yeah, i don't have the up-sampling board and prefer it that way, I'm half thinking of getting some of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260479385900?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 (not sure on there quality though) and powering things separately on the board, but I' having a little trouble getting my head around it :-[