The KillerDAC Audio forum
Tech Corner => Capacitors => Topic started by: kajak12 on September 04, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
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duelund coherent audio vsf series.yes they do cost some $$$$ but a cap which is just pure life and soul of music which is just amazing.
available for order at www.lenehanaudio.com.au (waiting times do apply) its worth the wait
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I concur with Mario's recommendation. Best caps I have!
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http://duelundaudio.blogspot.com/2010/09/launch-of-vsf-black-series.html
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cool
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Mario, please get a pair of those duelund blacks so we can see how they go against the the VSF coppers. :)
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tuyen.. now your talking...
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looks good, is there pricing anywhere?
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anybody with cash ring mike and make an order now i am on low funds atm
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looks good, is there pricing anywhere?
1.5 x the vsf price
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usual time wait from mr duelund?
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8 to 10 weeks on the phone to mike order now or wait 4 months
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sw5fqFK_yA
mega bucks caps all ready for lenehanaudio xovers
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Wow... what are these blacks!?!
Are these going into Lenehan speakers Mario?
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Wow... what are these blacks!?!
Are these going into Lenehan speakers Mario?
not blacks just vsf all going into ml3 refrence
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duelund coherent audio vsf series.yes they do cost some $$$$ but a cap which is just pure life and soul of music which is just amazing.
available for order at www.lenehanaudio.com.au (waiting times do apply) its worth the wait
I have Sonicap capacitors in my crossovers. Would you recommend replacing them? And if yes, what would you use instead?
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what speakers do you use?
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Set of DIY CornScalas.
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you can try any cap duelund is expensive ampohm are cheaper its a combination that will work in your system
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you can try any cap duelund is expensive ampohm are cheaper its a combination that will work in your system
I looked at ampohm caps and there are several different types. Which ones would you recommend? (Sorry, I am hopeless when it comes to electronics...)
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paper in wax or paper in oil
paper in oil should be richer and more full sounding it depends what you would like to add or take away from your current caps
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paper in wax or paper in oil
paper in oil should be richer and more full sounding it depends what you would like to add or take away from your current caps
Thanks. Will try.
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you can try any cap duelund is expensive ampohm are cheaper its a combination that will work in your system
When you say duelund are expensive, what are we talking about per cap?
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lotsandlots
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you can try any cap duelund is expensive ampohm are cheaper its a combination that will work in your system
When you say duelund are expensive, what are we talking about per cap?
2.2uf $200 just one cap
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2.2uf $200 just one cap
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:o
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2.2uf $200 just one cap
:o
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2.2 uf - 630 VAC, 85 x 58, CAST-PIO, Copper Foil
$645.41 $516.33 pcX USD Price
this version is the pio cast :D
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_pio_electonic.html
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Yesterday I did put in Audio Note Silver Caps (do not be fooled by the copper encasing !) in my DAC...the difference against my Audio Note Copper Caps is downright huge.... ;D
I will listen 'till coming thursday to form an opinion about them and .....drums please.........the Duelunds Copper Pio Cast 0.47/630V (just slightly cheaper) will have to go in.. 8)........this will lead to a winner in my DAC (or rather my system) ;)
Keep you informed ;)
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Yesterday I did put in Audio Note Silver Caps (do not be fooled by the copper encasing !) in my DAC...the difference against my Audio Note Copper Caps is downright huge.... ;D
I will listen 'till coming thursday to form an opinion about them and .....drums please.........the Duelunds Copper Pio Cast 0.47/630V (just slightly cheaper) will have to go in.. 8)........this will lead to a winner in my DAC (or rather my system) ;)
Keep you informed ;)
I find silver to be unmusical. Copper duelunds are the best cap in the world at the moment. If anyone hears a better cap let me know.
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I find silver to be unmusical. Copper duelunds are the best cap in the world at the moment. If anyone hears a better cap let me know.
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Have you heard these silver caps against copper...you might want to change your mind. ;D
Anyway I let you know if the Duelund Coppers better it....
Mind you I cannot find anybody (in the world!!) who had experience with them as end caps in a DAC ???
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What do you mean end caps?
The majority of us are running Duelunds....
I am running cast pios at the moment.
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I mean the 0.47 uF/630V after the tube(s) onto the output RCA's... ;)
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Well, I am not running 0.47 but I am running the duelunds as output caps....
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Okay clear ;)
Did you do by any chance a comparison between the Duelunds and eg Audionote Silver or/and the likes....?
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are crap, my browser stuffed up and i lost my response.
A very brief summary of what I said.
I have compared the cast pio to the vsf and the auricap.
Both the duelunds are more open and have to myself a more natural tonal presentation.
The cast pio itself has a cleaner sound, with a bit more sparkle in the top end, it also has a more robust bottom end however that may be because I moved from 2.2uf to 2.7uf.
The vsf is much better bang for your buck than the cast pio (at rrp) and I know that some prefer the extra "warmth"
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I know stevevalve has had a much bigger play with output caps in the kdac and may be able to give you comparisons with a wider range of caps.
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Okay clear ;)
Did you do by any chance a comparison between the Duelunds and eg Audionote Silver or/and the likes....?
hello erik
i had mundorf silver oil caps in my last pair of ml1's in the xrosovers,i have the same speakers whith duelund caps (vsf)
mundorfs are sh!t when you go to duelunds nothing about mundorfs any better in any way then duelunds they are far more natural sounding cap.
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Both your experiences in your mentioned applications are the same as the results I read everywhere... ;)
However in my situation I did not come across a shoot-out yet...but we will see.
With the Duelunds......Pio Cast is the only material for high voltages (630 V)!
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Once you try the cast pios, let me know what you think vs the audionote.
I prefer the cast pio because you lose some of the "richness/warmth" for a bit more "air". Really though, there is hardly anything in it. If I didnt get the cast pios at a very reasonable price (thanks Steve) I couldnt justify the almost double cost over the VSF. It would be interesting for someone to try out the duelund black and see how they go.
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Will do ;)
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Hi Erik,
Do you know how the value of the output capacitor in the dac impacts on the sound? Is there a minimum value/max value that can be used? I ask because I notice you are using 0.47uF cap in that position while I am using 2.2uF. I understand our circuits/output stages will differ!
The function of the cap is to remove all the DC voltage from the output signal right?
I tried putting a 0.25uF dearborn glass cap in that position and measured the rca points and no DC voltage noticable DC voltage). Haven't had chance to listen to it yet though.
I have some spare AudioNote Copper Mylar 0.33uF that I could try too if it is safe.
Tuyen
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Do you know how the value of the output capacitor in the dac impacts on the sound? Is there a minimum value/max value that can be used? I ask because I notice you are using 0.47uF cap in that position while I am using 2.2uF. I understand our circuits/output stages will differ!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter
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Cheers heaps omodo!
Oh yes I semi-recall learning that at uni! Pity I dropped out of electrical engineering half way and did computer programming. :( The knowledge would of been kind of useful to me nowdays!! ah well..
Fc = 1 / (2*PI*R*C)
So if I was to use a 0.25uF cap.. (and resistance of kdac is 3000ohm)
Fc = 1 / (2*3.14*3000*(0.25/1000000)) = 212hz .. meaning it is acting as a high pass filter with a cutoff of ~212hz.
And when I was using the 2.2uF caps that came with the dac
Fc = 1 / (2*3.14*3000*(2.2/1000000)) = 24hz .. so with this cap in place, the cutoff freq is ~24hz.
I am running the dac now with 0.25uF dearborn cap ( I thought wat the hell.. Ill try it.. no harm as there is no DC coming through to harm the speakers). Little to no bass response at all! It's rolling off really early.. eeep!
Am I on the right track?
So my next question is, what if we run say 10uF caps where the Fc = ~5hz. What happens to the sound then. I dont have any big around that value to try!
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on the right track, but the resistance of the filter is the load being driven by your dac, so your preamp or poweramp input impedance..
100k and 0.25uF = 6.4Hz
50k and 0.25uF = 12.7Hz
50k and 2.2uF = 1.4Hz
note that the cutoff freq/corner freq (Fc) is the point where the power is halved (or -3dB down), but the rolloff of a 1st order filter starts nearly a decade above the Fc, so based on this a good rule of thumb is to size the cap for a Fc 10 times lower than the lowest freq that you want to pass...
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Cheers again omodo!
I see.. my active xo has an input impedance of 50kohm so with the 0.25uF cap... i'll be looking at rolloff around 130hz.. which seems about right with what I was hearing..
I think I'll stick to the 2-3uF range :)
Still don't understand the problems associatied when using a output coupling cap with a really high value (ie. 10-50uF). Any harm? in trying? Will the treble start rolling off?
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Both your experiences in your mentioned applications are the same as the results I read everywhere... ;)
However in my situation I did not come across a shoot-out yet...but we will see.
With the Duelunds......Pio Cast is the only material for high voltages (630 V)!
First impressions.....
They both are definitely playing in the same league....although the AN Silver has been burned in....and the Duelund straight out of the box.
The AN has the better hand in treble and gives the low slightly more definition...the Duelund power is in voices, more realistic and warm.
All seems a bit more balanced but also less exciting with the Duelund.
First I will have to play with the Duelund in for a few days so I can compare the differences in a burned-in comparison.
Again it is definitely a character-thing we are discussing here...almost a luxuriuos problem... ;D
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The Duelunds were more..uhh.."emotional"...."captive"..... so i did choose them over the AN Silver 0.47 uF
We did build them in yesterdayevening... 8)
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Hi Erik! :)
Are they CAST Ag or CAST Cu ??
Now that they are run in I'm sure.. how do you find them?! :)
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I find them emotionally involving.....!!!!!
At a certain stage I do not pay attention any longer on better highs-mids-bass but I want to get ..uhhh....more drawn into the music by a new/better item that I implement in a component.
I know this sounds pretty vague but that how it is (for me) lately...
I am most certainly not poor but the silver version is out of my league so things out of my league I have no intrest in........meaning..... to try them out in my system...
BTW I find the copper Duellunds already on the edge of "affordable" (for me).... ;D
I also liked the Silver Audionotes....in the end I chose the more involving ones....
I do not share the silver versus copper opinion I find both have there own merites and I use them as such.....lets say as "seasoning"...to speak in cookery terms... ;D
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Understood! I am on same boat as you now re silver vs copper. Seasoning it is ! :)
The emotional connection to the music is something hard to measure, but matters so much for us diy tweaker guys doesn't it!
I notice you are friends with Doede!? What do you think of his dac creation? How does it compare to your 'audionote 6' ? :)
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We only had a small shoot out years ago at my place when he was visiting me, that was before my last serious modifications on the AudioNote Dac-3......
What I still can remember was that Doede was also at that time in the development stage with his dac.
Anyway to give some sort of an answer I can still remember as clear as day that with a voice and single instrument his tiny Dac (at that stage in that year) blew my Audionote away.....only when the complex music was played it started to get a bit too rough....
Would you believe that as a result of that I was seriously thinking of using both Dac's in my own system ...depending on the music played... ;D