The KillerDAC Audio forum
General HIFI => Reel to Reel => Topic started by: ozmillsy on October 29, 2012, 08:12:32 PM
-
Ok guys, what are the reel tapes we should be looking for, and what should we be avoiding?
Are there different sizes, and only certain types we can play on these studio type R2R players?
Can we play 3 3/4" tapes?
Might be nube questions, but need to know if there are any tape types I should be avoiding.
-
The master tapes are usually 15 inch per second speed and IEC equalization. Most machines are either 3 3/4 - 7.5 IPS or 7.5 - 15 IPS some are switchable via an internal link.
The machines we should look for must do 15 IPS and have IEC equalization. This rules out many older machines as they have NAB equalization.
When I Get a bit of time I will post a series of links for some reading to get those interested up to speed.
-
Ok, I notice most old "studio" releases are 7.5" .
I've seen some music on 3-3/4" on the bay. Are they a waste of time?
-
Yeah Oz I would avoid the low speed tapes as the are usually 4 track, NAB equalisation and pretty poor sound quality.
-
Where can I read more about the various types of equalization?
I assume IEC is what we need to look out for, or is there other desirable types that are ok?
-
Some info on Yarlung Records here
http://www.yarlungrecords.com/analog.html#a1
and here
http://www.tapeproject.com/smf/index.php?topic=2187.0
-
Giorgio Foschi - the italian reel-to-reel maverick
http://twogoodears.blogspot.com.au/ (http://twogoodears.blogspot.com.au/)
Might be worth keeping eye out for title releases and prices from Giorgio who seems to be a tape enthusiast.
-
Giorgio Foschi - the italian reel-to-reel maverick
http://twogoodears.blogspot.com.au/ (http://twogoodears.blogspot.com.au/)
Might be worth keeping eye out for title releases and prices from Giorgio who seems to be a tape enthusiast.
NAB EQ, could be an issue?
-
New music for our pleasure on tape.
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
-
If anyone finds some interesting reel to reel masters, including via Ebay, place a link here.
-
If anyone finds some interesting reel to reel masters, including via Ebay, place a link here.
Here is one i would like, can someone buy this, i will have a copy.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINK-FLOYD-MEDDLE-JAPAN-REEL-TO-REEL-TAPE-TOSHIBA-OXA-5084-4TRACK-7-2-1IPS-RARE-/110998281423?pt=Music_Other_Formats&hash=item19d8035ccf
-
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
The mic preamp those guys use is interesting. Is it 300b ?
-
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
The mic preamp those guys use is interesting. Is it 300b ?
Hi Oz.
Silver wound transformers -> WE 437A (western electric) -> 300B.
It's quite a good way to go for a mic pre as the 437A is a very low noise tube. I know a Sydney based recording
engineer that uses a similar pre (2A3 OP tube) and loves it for simple rich sounding applications (vocals etc).
It's an area of audio that I love and used to design / build gear for a very talented minimalist recording engineer.
The most important thing (besides the musicians) is the room / mics and technique. Then pre, recording medium etc
It's very pecialized and requires deep knowledge of mic types, positioning etc. Every mic 'hears' differently and that's
not just freq response but depth of field and off axis response. Throw in the venue acoustics / ambient qualities (reverberation)
and it's a tricky mix.
One particularly interesting job was at Sydney Recital Hall (refer pic). He was using a stereo coincident ribbon (from memory)
that had to be hung from the ceiling. There was a very long mic cable (existing venue setup) that the mics struggled to drive.
I built a small battery powered head amp that hung just above mic and this drove the cable to a custom mic pre.
Some of those recordings sounded really nice.
With mic pre's it's just like DAC's - you choose the pre to compliment the music / mics etc
Z
-
New music for our pleasure on tape.
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
The challenge for these small independent labels is to actually get the talent.
If you listen to someone like yoyoma or Rostropovich play those Bach 6 cello suites it's like 'wow'.
But we have to suffer the existing recordings of the greats - they are pretty varied.
I honestly think the future of super quality recording (on the recording side not playback) is
multi channel DSD. I have been talking to a few engineers lately and it appears there is a slow
'awakening'.
Couple this with the fact that the (traditional) music industry is basically dead - artists / labels /engineers
are looking for different options, business models.
Z
-
I honestly think the future of super quality recording (on the recording side not playback) is
multi channel DSD. I have been talking to a few engineers lately and it appears there is a slow
'awakening'.
What tools are available to mix and edit the multi channel DSD tracks?
-
I honestly think the future of super quality recording (on the recording side not playback) is
multi channel DSD. I have been talking to a few engineers lately and it appears there is a slow
'awakening'.
What tools are available to mix and edit the multi channel DSD tracks?
As far as I know None yet. Korg had a multi channel DSD recorder / editor prototyped but it looks like they've canned it.
The existing systems convert DSD to 384k / 352.8k PCM, edit that, reconvert back to DSD (or whatever) for distribution.
Yes, the concept sounds dumb initially however I believe Saracon is far better at producing a PCM representation
converted from DSD than the DS modulator of an ADC. The specs also support this, it does something like -158dBTHD+N.
Yep, I know specs mean nothing - however DSD consistently wins listening tests against PCM for mastering archive.
What no won has done is make a decent DSD recorder with tubes, transformers and really good clocks.
Z
-
I honestly think the future of super quality recording (on the recording side not playback) is
multi channel DSD. I have been talking to a few engineers lately and it appears there is a slow
'awakening'.
What tools are available to mix and edit the multi channel DSD tracks?
As far as I know None yet. Korg had a multi channel DSD recorder / editor prototyped but it looks like they've canned it.
The existing systems convert DSD to 384k / 352.8k PCM, edit that, reconvert back to DSD (or whatever) for distribution.
Yes, the concept sounds dumb initially however I believe Saracon is far better at producing a PCM representation
converted from DSD than the DS modulator of an ADC. The specs also support this, it does something like -158dBTHD+N.
Yep, I know specs mean nothing - however DSD consistently wins listening tests against PCM for mastering archive.
What no won has done is make a decent DSD recorder with tubes, transformers and really good clocks.
Z
Hi Z,
WBF's Bruce reckons that Saracon is only any good for PCM files and he proffers to use the Korg Audigate software to down
sample from DSD to PCM. Tried it and bugger me, he is right.
Cheers
Graham
-
The existing systems convert DSD to 384k / 352.8k PCM, edit that, reconvert back to DSD (or whatever) for distribution.
Yes, the concept sounds dumb initially however I believe Saracon is far better at producing a PCM representation
converted from DSD than the DS modulator of an ADC. The specs also support this, it does something like -158dBTHD+N.
Yep, I know specs mean nothing - however DSD consistently wins listening tests against PCM for mastering archive.
Well, if the purpose is to archive without changing anything, then I can understand using DSD.
But I was under the impression there are some pretty serious DXD (32/3xx pcm) recorders coming out. The thd specs of 32bit pcm cant be that far behind. Still makes more sense to me to record and mix in the same format.
But a DSD recorder with tubes could have a real place for live stereo recordings, where mixing isnt required. I reckon this is where it's at, for ultimate SQ. I've been listening to some old Sheffield direct to disc lp's lately, and bugger me do they sound good.
-
Hi Z,
WBF's Bruce reckons that Saracon is only any good for PCM files and he proffers to use the Korg Audigate software to down
sample from DSD to PCM. Tried it and bugger me, he is right.
Cheers
Graham
You're both crazy IMHO. :P
POWr3 dithering is a major differentiator, if going to 16/44, IMHO.
-
I honestly think the future of super quality recording (on the recording side not playback) is
multi channel DSD. I have been talking to a few engineers lately and it appears there is a slow
'awakening'.
What tools are available to mix and edit the multi channel DSD tracks?
As far as I know None yet. Korg had a multi channel DSD recorder / editor prototyped but it looks like they've canned it.
The existing systems convert DSD to 384k / 352.8k PCM, edit that, reconvert back to DSD (or whatever) for distribution.
Yes, the concept sounds dumb initially however I believe Saracon is far better at producing a PCM representation
converted from DSD than the DS modulator of an ADC. The specs also support this, it does something like -158dBTHD+N.
Yep, I know specs mean nothing - however DSD consistently wins listening tests against PCM for mastering archive.
What no won has done is make a decent DSD recorder with tubes, transformers and really good clocks.
Z
Hi Z,
WBF's Bruce reckons that Saracon is only any good for PCM files and he proffers to use the Korg Audigate software to down
sample from DSD to PCM. Tried it and bugger me, he is right.
Cheers
Graham
I would've said he's kidding himself but if you are referring to Puget Sound Bruce he certainly has enough quality gear to form an informed opinion.
One thing is for sure the Korg MR itself is nice but certainly not near cutting edge. I wouldn't be using it to capture DSD.
In fact I have one coming in a few weeks for an upgrade to both ADC side and DAC side and have looked carefully at the
schematics - there are a lot of compromises.
Even upgraded it won't come close to what DSD is capable of. That would take a new box.
One option that may well be worth trying is:
a) Use Saracon to go DSD -> 176.4
b) Use Faulkner averaging algorithm to go 176.4 -> 44.1
Z
-
I tried the Faulkner downsampler, I found it "edgy" and unnatural.
-
[/quote]
One option that may well be worth trying is:
a) Use Saracon to go DSD -> 176.4
b) Use Faulkner averaging algorithm to go 176.4 -> 44.1
Z
[/quote]
Or to keep on topic, forget about the digital altogether and make some decent tapes ;D
-
Or to keep on topic, forget about the digital altogether and make some decent tapes ;D
Some are poor cd's will do :-[ :-[
-
Sent Yarlung an email. We what new releases of your master Tapes. This is the reply
Dear Steven,
Thanks so much for your note and for your enthusiasm. I really appreciate it. I am in Europe at the moment, meeting with our various distributors. I have an appointment with our Australian distributor, in fact, at the end of the month. But the tapes will always be available directly, as I have to make them 1 to 1 myself.
We do in fact have plans for future tape releases, and they should be out before the end of the year. I am looking for sponsorship so we can keep the prices low. I know they cost a fortune, but I think they add up to about $3 an hour, after the cost of the stock. And that is US dollars, not Australian which would be a bit better!
Sincerely and best wishes, and thanks again for your note.
Bob.
Bob Attiyeh
-
$3 per hour production costs, for master tape quality. I love Yarlung, and will continue to buy their tapes direct.
-
Can't agree more. We need to send email to Yarlung like Steve to encourage and support them.
-
http://www.mastertapesoundlab.com/MasterTapeSoundLab/Welcome.html
-
http://www.mastertapesoundlab.com/MasterTapeSoundLab/Welcome.html
Am aware these are available. Have already had contact with Tudor and have brought some A80 parts from him.
Will check out some tapes in the near future.
-
Some more brilliant stuff from the guru. I ordered mine immediately upon receiving the email from Yarlung records. Just the best. If there is better, show me.
-
Last night I listened to 1 tape from the latest Yarlung set over at SV's - Suryodaya
http://www.yarlungrecords.com/analog.html#a1 (http://www.yarlungrecords.com/analog.html#a1)
SQ is simply amazing. The music is kinda alternative classical, I really liked it.
The SQ quality of the Yarlung recordings is 2nd to none. IMO
I'll be ordering my set shortly, when funds permit.
-
Yarlungs Set2 ordered, I cant wait to get them ! :D
-
Anyone seen these, looks real good.
http://internationalphonographinc.com/master_tapes.html
-
I'll pickup a couple, and provide feedback.
Clare Fischer, Extension, 1963
Per Henrik Wallin, 4th Balcony Jump, 1983
I've given them 2 chances to win me over. If they're close to Yarlung quality, I'll buy more. Yarlung might be a high bar, but they deserve to be the yardstick by which others are measured (and also, the Yarlungs are more affordable).
-
I've changed my order, I contacted Jonathan Horwich, and asked him for a recommendation on the tapes he considered were sonically the best of his best.
He recommended these, which I have ordered.
1. Ravi Shankar no question as to music and audio.
2. Jazz - Josh Berman Trio. Retro/avant Chicago jazz with sonics to die.
3. Jeremy Kahn Duets - very lovely piano and tenor duets of standards. Two mics only so you get the big open sound.
I also ordered a 4th tape, which is 1 of his Jazz favourites, which is supposed to be great musically, but the sonics not quite as good as the above.
We'll see. I cant wait to try them.
-
Master tapes galore.
http://www.mastertapesoundlab.com/MasterTapeSoundLab/Welcome.html
Groove Note Records http://www.elusivedisc.com/Groove-Note/products/346/
International Phonographic http://internationalphonographinc.com/
Master Tape Sound Lab http://mastertapesoundlab.com/Master...Catalogue.html
Opus 3 Records http://www.opus3records.com/
Premonition Records http://www.premonitionrecords.com
Quinton Records http://www.quintonrecords.com/index.php?id=34&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=3&cHash=ac39e937f31df6cfd0a0f18e2a400251
The Tape Project http://www.tapeproject.com/
Ultra Analogue Recordings http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
Yarlung Records http://www.yarlungrecords.com/analog.html#a1
-
What a fantastic renaissance !! :)
-
Master tapes galore.
http://www.mastertapesoundlab.com/MasterTapeSoundLab/Welcome.html
Groove Note Records http://www.elusivedisc.com/Groove-Note/products/346/
International Phonographic http://internationalphonographinc.com/
Master Tape Sound Lab http://mastertapesoundlab.com/Master...Catalogue.html
Opus 3 Records http://www.opus3records.com/
Premonition Records http://www.premonitionrecords.com
Quinton Records http://www.quintonrecords.com/index.php?id=34&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=3&cHash=ac39e937f31df6cfd0a0f18e2a400251
The Tape Project http://www.tapeproject.com/
Ultra Analogue Recordings http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/home
Yarlung Records http://www.yarlungrecords.com/analog.html#a1
Some links don't work but its an old list, search Google and ye shall find
-
Great, It looks like there are lot of new players in the tape reissue and master tape copy market, I what them but the problem the US Dollars is very high. Still i will buy what i like. Check out the new labels here.
http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/music-reviews/the-reel-deal-dealing-with-tape-overload-2/
-
Some nice tapes here, but i wound like to hear first before buying.
http://www.openreelrecords.com/
-
Hey guys, I am still active in the reel to reel space, not massively so, but I still do splash on some tapes from time to time.
I have personally struggled with the price tag of some tapes, and avoided big ticket items, because I have been unable to justify to myself the outlay vs return equation on alot of tapes that are out there. Especially Tape Project tapes, at U$450ea retail. Ouch !!! >:(
But I recently came across some TP tapes available 2nd hand, and I couldnt resist. I just had to hear for myself, what these original master tapes sounded like, and wanted to have some in my library.
They've just arrived. And let me say, that the production quality in terms of packaging is 2nd to none. Awe inspiring, they've really done it well, and better than any other company I have purchased original tapes from.
Things I like...
* Heavy leather like boxes
* Gold embossing
* Every title has an individual serial number
* Every tape has the serial number printed on it.
* Well produced artwork
* Liner notes, that are custom produced and tailored to the tape project release
I havent listened yet. I am waiting for a special occasion, the right night, where I will relax with a bottle of red, and immerse myself in 1 or 2 of these titles.
Debbie, serial #017. That is 1 of my favourite jazz titles, and it alone makes me feel wonderful about this purchase ! :)
Some pics.
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/20160319_112108.jpg)
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/20160319_112713.jpg)
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1370915/Audio/20160319_112723.jpg)
I reckon owning at least 1 of these titles, is a very nice thing in any R2R collection, if it can be afforded. I notice they are taking orders on most titles, that were previously considered out of production. Which is a good thing. :)
-
I have just received some tapes from this company. I will start with the sampler and see how it sounds before spending big. It look promising but i will only buy if it cuts it. We will see.
http://www.analogyrecords.org/
http://www.analogyrecords.org/products/sampler/sampler-15-ips/
-
Here is an interesting Master tape Studio Look at the Micheal Femmer you tube clip
http://chasingthedragon.co.uk/index.html