The KillerDAC Audio forum
KillerDac => Testimonials => Topic started by: bhobba on January 25, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
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Hi Guys
Its been a bit of a wait with more than a few twists and turns but Craig has told me my Killer has been finished. To get it up and running he has done it initially with SPDIF but my final version will use I2S fed by my Off-Ramp.
Its first outing will be the Canberra GTG tomorrow where we will do a comparison to my PDX and NAD M51. Stevenvalve and Rawl99 will both be there. Craig knows how I use my DAC (direct connecting to my amps and using an Off-Ramp) and will try and taylor it to that.
So now its simply what the listening tests will show.
Will keep everyone informed.
Thanks
Bill
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We listened to Bill's new Killerdac all day/night yesterday, and it sounds superb. We did a direct comparison to his NAD M51, and another dac has been murdered by the Killer. It wasn't even close, the new current spec Kdac is on another planet.
We lifted the skirt of Bills PDX, and oh my goodness, the engineering difference between the guts of a killer and the PDX has got to be seen to be believed. A comparison of the current spec PDX to Kdac didn't happen, as Bill forgot to bring his external power supply for the PDX. That should happen today sometime.
Bill, it was good to meet you. You should be very pleased with the Kdac, it's a bloody beauty !
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Let's see some DAC porn photos :) :)
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Guys,
Can this be it?
Stumble across this while browsing diyaudio, LOOK at the huge chunk of caps!
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/Audio/Gear/kdac_i2s_internals.JPG)
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
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Hi Guys
We did the comparison the next day. On that system the Killer was clearly better. Still people thought the PDX was pretty good.
The Killer sounded a bit like DSD through my Playback Designs - not sure if its as good or maybe even better - maybe - will need to check it out.
Thanks
Bill
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Good on ya Bill.
You were the one who put me in touch with Steven originally with the suggestion that a Killer was possibly the best DAC going around and therefore the best avenue for me to pursue. Certainly i have not regretted a minute of that ride.
I've made some dodgy component purchases over the years but the Killer certainly wasn't one of them.
I hope you're having some fun with yours :)
Nathan
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
So how about a pm with the guts and glory of the new build for way of comparison?
V
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
So how about a pm with the guts and glory of the new build for way of comparison?
V
V. Here is a low resolution picture of the latest KillerDac. Simpler, less is more. Different than the earlier models, but the principle is the same.
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Simpler? It's got the most sophisticated switch I've ever seen so I'm not sure if it's really simpler! :P
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
So how about a pm with the guts and glory of the new build for way of comparison?
V
V. Here is a low resolution picture of the latest KillerDac. Simpler, less is more. Different than the earlier models, but the principle is the same.
Noice! Looking forward to some more pics??
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
So how about a pm with the guts and glory of the new build for way of comparison?
V
V. Here is a low resolution picture of the latest KillerDac. Simpler, less is more. Different than the earlier models, but the principle is the same.
You have to buy one Flemo
Noice! Looking forward to some more pics??
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That's my dac, Which is not the same as the new version Killer.
It's changed a fair bit.
So how about a pm with the guts and glory of the new build for way of comparison?
V
V. Here is a low resolution picture of the latest KillerDac. Simpler, less is more. Different than the earlier models, but the principle is the same.
You have to buy one Flemo
Noice! Looking forward to some more pics??
I have one Mario, a Killer SP10!
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Hi Guys
Rawl just completed my Killer and have just returned from hearing it over his place.
When I arrived Rawl had his uber transport running via I2S into it playing Dianna Krall - Girl In The Other Room. Before saying anything else I want to emphasize this transport is wild - really low jitter custom modified Trichord clocks and other stuff that is quite likely even above the uber stuff in an Off-Ramp. This is no ordinary bit of gear.
The amp was an upgraded VAC and speakers ML3 Reference, the same as mine.
Very full harmonically rich enveloping sound. This type of thing is what Rawl and other Killer DAC guys refer to as detail - for me its a fuller richer sound - not extra detail - I like it - but its different terminology than I use. I thought, yes it had the signature of other Killers I had heard and I liked it right off.
Next up was via my Off-Ramp using I2S. My Off-Ramp also uses a heavily upgraded custom built power supply that makes a big difference over the switching supply Steve supplies with it. It has a switch that engages and disengages the earth - and we found one position significantly better than the other - much cleaner clearer sound so that's what we stuck with.
The difference was the Off-Ramp had greater detail, and better, tighter bass, but it lost a significant amount of the harmonic richness. It was a whiter, more bland sound. I preferred the transport, but I am not sure that would be everyone's preference. Knowing Killer DAC aficionados they would prefer the transport. Certainly Rawl much preferred it.
OK - I also took on over my Playback Designs, which, prior to the Phasure, was the best DAC I had heard via DSD. First up we played Harry Belefonte - Sylvie via PCM - OK - but to my ears the Killer was obviously better. This was expected - the PD is OK via PCM - but a number of other DAC's I pitted it against were better. Its real strength is DSD. So next was Sylvie via DSD. Immediately better - very live real and present. Now we are talking. Ok - what about the Off-Ramp via PCM into the Killer. Sorry PD guys - we have another DAC other than the Phasure that is better. It simply sounded richer and more life like.
We played a number tracks including some classical. But it was all basically the same - the Killer was clearly better than the PD - and the transport had a fuller, richer more enveloping sound - but the Off-Ramp better detail and bass..
The DAC shootout should prove very interesting.
And if anyone want to hear it simply drop me or Rawl99 a line.
He will have it for the next few weeks.
Thanks
Bill
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Congrats Bill. The current generation KD is a remarkable piece of kit, loaded up with special parts. The side by side internal view at Canberra, of kd to pdx, really spoke volumes.
May it bring you many years of enjoyment.
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Congrats Bill. The current generation KD is a remarkable piece of kit, loaded up with special parts. The side by side internal view at Canberra, of kd to pdx, really spoke volumes.
May it bring you many years of enjoyment.
Agreed the PDX looked like a toy. Many owners might be shocked if they looked inside... :o
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I'm in the market for a good DAC so this is a serious question, how much would one expect to pay for the latest version of a KD??
I'm currently trialing a Bakoon DAC which I'm quite impressed with but the KD has always intrigued me as I know that it has captured the hearts of people with ears I trust.
I used to dismiss the KD as it couldn't do high res but to tell the truth I'm no longer convinced by high res anyway due to the fact that most of my favourite, most 'musical' albums that I listen to are all Red Book, and yet some of my highest bit recordings sound sh!te..
The Bakoon is ~ $4500, would that put me somewhere in the ballpark for a latest KD??
Cheers
Dave
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About $5800 willo hand made with love but a waiting period comes with it.
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I'm in the market for a good DAC so this is a serious question, how much would one expect to pay for the latest version of a KD??
I'm currently trialing a Bakoon DAC which I'm quite impressed with but the KD has always intrigued me as I know that it has captured the hearts of people with ears I trust.
I used to dismiss the KD as it couldn't do high res but to tell the truth I'm no longer convinced by high res anyway due to the fact that most of my favourite, most 'musical' albums that I listen to are all Red Book, and yet some of my highest bit recordings sound sh!te..
The Bakoon is ~ $4500, would that put me somewhere in the ballpark for a latest KD??
Cheers
Dave
When you have a killerdac, you wont care about Hi Res, low Res, Any Res. It's the only component you will never change, never think of changing, One thing comes to mind when I listen to my Killer, glorious midrange splendour, I think HiRes has the potential to be good, but I have the feeling it will only happen, if we make one from the ground up. The people making them now are well .......useless. They just do not seem to understand, the Dacs they are making do not remotely sound like real music.
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Davo :D ;)
I'm currently trialing a Bakoon DAC which I'm quite impressed with but the KD has always intrigued me as I know that it has captured the hearts of people with ears I trust.
Here you will not be comparing apples to apples. Solid state Vs Valve. As usual it will be all about system synergy as that's the be all and end all IMV.
If you speak really nicely to Mario he may bring his round, probably easier to take your front end down to his. The KD is all about conveying the emotion in music IMV as it does not get hung up on FR or artificial detail, it can also sound pretty convincing unlike a lot of artificial sounding whiter than white units.
When you want to be able to loose yourself in the music you can do a whole lot worse for considerably more money.
If you are already pretty happy with the Bakoon but not in love then there is clearly a quest for a fairer maiden. If you can live with the uglier than Sin looks :-X and can feed it with a top flight transport / source then you may not just be able to live with anything else. :)
V
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Davo :D ;)
I'm currently trialing a Bakoon DAC which I'm quite impressed with but the KD has always intrigued me as I know that it has captured the hearts of people with ears I trust.
Here you will not be comparing apples to apples. Solid state Vs Valve. As usual it will be all about system synergy as that's the be all and end all IMV.
If you speak really nicely to Mario he may bring his round, probably easier to take your front end down to his. The KD is all about conveying the emotion in music IMV as it does not get hung up on FR or artificial detail, it can also sound pretty convincing unlike a lot of artificial sounding whiter than white units.
When you want to be able to loose yourself in the music you can do a whole lot worse for considerably more money.
If you are already pretty happy with the Bakoon but not in love then there is clearly a quest for a fairer maiden. If you can live with the uglier than Sin looks :-X and can feed it with a top flight transport / source then you may not just be able to live with anything else. :)
V
I can live with ugly, you've seen my Bakoons man, they are about as ugly as sound equipment gets, I'm after a great sound, looks do not interest me in the least ;)
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I'm in the market for a good DAC so this is a serious question, how much would one expect to pay for the latest version of a KD??
About $5800 willo hand made with love but a waiting period comes with it.
Mario hit it in one.
But generally speaking this DAC is way above commercial gear you can buy - even stuff that costs a lot more.
When you have a killerdac, you wont care about Hi Res, low Res, Any Res. It's the only component you will never change, never think of changing, One thing comes to mind when I listen to my Killer, glorious midrange splendour, I think HiRes has the potential to be good, but I have the feeling it will only happen, if we make one from the ground up. The people making them now are well .......useless. They just do not seem to understand, the Dacs they are making do not remotely sound like real music.
When I was down at Rawl's checking out my Killer we compared it to what many consider, technically, the state of the art you can get today. It was DSD through a DAC built from the ground up for DSD, an MPD-3, designed by the guru of DSD, Andreas Koch. Now Steve has heard this with Harry Belefonte - Sylvie. And it sounds good - make no mistake - very live real and present. But when we compared it to bog standard PCM via computer audio into the Killer (this was not the upgraded Wadia uber transport Steve and others have - but my upgraded Off-Ramp - that Wadia is, to my ears, clearly better) it was better than this supposed state of the art uber fantastic DSD everyone raves about. Its good - but the Killer was clearly and obviously better.
Now, add to this, what I have just been told by Rawl. The other DAC that has recently impressed me is the Phasure. Guys go ga ga over it saying its statement level etc etc:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/xxhighend/1.html
'In combination with the Phasure NOS1 DAC the sound quality sits lonely at the very top. As our new reference, it will make future reviews both easier and rather more critical.'
It too was able to show DSD via the PD a clean pair of heels - the first DAC in my very long mucking around with DAC's that was able to do this.
So knowing this, two guys out my way - Rob - who has very good ears - better than mine - and Anthony - the owner of the Phasure - took it over to Rawl's to check out. I wasn't there, but I trust Rawls ears and he thought the Killer was easily better. I spoke to Anthony, and while he liked the Killer thought it was so different to the Phasure didn't really want to say one way or the other at this stage. Also Rawl has Mikes ML3 Reference and, like me, feels the ML2 Limited are way ahead. He went back to Rob's place to verify it - and the Phasure was way ahead on Rob's limited. So he doesn't really want to pass judgement until he gets both the Killer and Phasure on the Limited.
That undoubtedly will take place a bit later, and I can report then. We also have the big DAC shootout coming up that will have those and other DAC's.
But I know and trust Rawl's hearing well enough that if he thinks the Killer is better than the Phasure, then it may well be. I will post more later as some more comparisons happen, but I can assure you, and anyone, that the Killers lack of high res capability is a total non issue. Its up there with, and likely better, than any DAC out there, Hi res, or not.
Thanks
Bill
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"I used to dismiss the KD as it couldn't do high res but to tell the truth I'm no longer convinced by high res anyway due to the fact that most of my favourite, most 'musical' albums that I listen to are all Red Book, and yet some of my highest bit recordings sound sh!te.."
Posted by: Davey Willo
I was dabbling with 24 bit for a while and thought that it must be better than bog standard 16 bit. But then I bought a Kdac and with some handy help from around here got it set up with a decent transport. Now I realise that 16 bit done very very well (both with the original master recording/transfer as well as on my end) is much better than any 24 bit I've listened to. More weight, more realness, more beauty and more emotionally engaging. For me anyway.
I'll catch up with you at mikes in a few weeks Bill :)
Nathan
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I'll catch up with you at mikes in a few weeks Bill :)
Hi Nathan
Looking forward to it mate.
You can hear the new Prima Luna Mike got in.
He was waiting for some Duelunds to upgrade it, but couldn't wait and installed some Jupiter capacitors that are still pretty good. He was really excited when I rang him yesterday about another matter - could be the best amp he has ever heard next to the upgraded Leak Craig bought over and wants to get them side by side to see what the go is. I have my Leak getting upgraded now but the Duelunds wont be here for another few weeks so we wont know for a while.
Anyway he wants me to come on down and here it Monday or Tuesday and can report more then.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Guys
I was over at a friends place today with him and Rawl, hearing the Killer DAC compared to an EMM Labs DAC on his Thiel 3 ways which were fed by an AR Ref 5 pre and some SS monoblocks I cant recall the name of, but they are evidently similar to the Arion 500's which was thought to be just a bit bass shy in comparison.
Anyway here is his view which will be followed by mine.
Have to say there's a lot to like about the Killer, except maybe the name which seems to rub people off the wrong way.
I was able to use Bill's Offramp to feed I2S to the Killer and AES to the EMM Labs XDS1 simultaneously and was able to A:B easily between the two using the ARC preamp.
The EMM does a lot of things right for me. But the Killer sounds more natural in the end. The XDS1 seems to exaggerate differences - higher highs and lower lows but the end result (which on its own doesn't sound bad to me) is less listenable to me than the Killer in the AB. I loved how the Killer reproduced guitars in Fourplay's 101 Eastbound (HD Tracks) which made it "easy" to follow. Where the XDS1 reproduced the music, the Killer sounded like it was an organised quartet led by the lead guitar, with the rest of band accompanying him. I really enjoyed that quality.
When we listened to the Phasure a while back, there was a similar disconnect - the Phasure reproduced voices like Pat Barber with a raspy or gravelly quality - was it more detail? I thought I heard that with Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now (DVDA rip) on the XDS1 today. The Killer was smoother but more natural. I've only heard Pat Barber once, in a club in Chicago many years ago and from memory, it seems to be somewhere in between. It wasn't quite buttery smooth, but it wasn't quite as gravelly as what I heard on the Phasure either. If I had to choose, I'd err on the side of the Killer.
When I first heard about the Killer, about how well it sounded with vocals, I can't say I was particularly keen to listen to it. I had written it off along with many warm syrupy slow Chinese tube amps I had heard int he past. But it wasn't the case. I even threw in a bit of Depeche Mode for good measure, along with FourPlay. Over the week, I am sure I can put it through the paces a bit more with some of my more familiar material.
If there is one downside, and actually it was more of a technicality, it was that we couldn't play hires material with it. But when we were playing HD Tracks material, even with the OffRamp downsampling to 44.1, the characteristics I liked about the Killer were still apparent, even when compared to the material in native hires on the XDS1. Maybe there is something to be said about hold outs like georgehifi Wink who insist 16/44.1 is good enough.
I concur with what was said above..
On all material we tried to me the EMM Labs had a 'thick' quality - things were distinct but lacked subtlety and realism. The Killer was simply much more convincing.
I did a comparison a couple of days ago against the current PDX. Previously I preferred the Killer but the PDX didn't have the best valves, which are the Phillips SQ. This time it had the SQ valves and it was a lot closer. However I still preferred the Killer. The vocals were just so real, layered and harmonically convincing. The PDX was slightly bland in comparison, but on some material such as Sade - Smooth Operator it was definitely more alive - but was that some kind of false edge - I don't know - I preferred it personally - but there was the Killers vocals - which was for me more entrancing.
The GTG between the Killer, Phasure, AMR and new PDX should prove very interesting.
Thanks
Bill
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I've said it time and time again, There is more to be gained in our playback hardware, than there is in the resolution of our digital software formats.
On the fly converters are adequate, but my point here is even more apparent when using really good software converters.
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Shootout = ambush ;D
Have fun guys!
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Shootout = ambush ;D
I have been chatting to Rawl about it.
It means nothing - its all just a bit of interesting fun.
To Judge a Killer, or any DAC really, you need to get it in your system and see what it does.
But dont let the price of the Killer fool you - that EMM DAC we compared it to cost $25K - I am pretty sure no one in their right mine would fork out their dosh for that DAC against the Killer - yea and its $5.5k vs $25k ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Thanks
Bill
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But dont let the price of the Killer fool you - that EMM DAC we compared it to cost $25K - I am pretty sure no one in their right mine would fork out their dosh for that DAC against the Killer - yea and its $5.5k vs $25k ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Humm Mmmmm In my Best Monty Python Voice
Tell the young blokes that today, an theyll never believe ya.
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Tell the young blokes that today, an theyll never believe ya.
Mate - the problem with young blokes, and sheilas for that matter (my two nieces I live with are in that category) is they have never heard real Hi Fi. When they do they are flabbergasted and shocked.
Thanks
Bill
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Good job Bill introducing the young generation to high quality gear. Now, you need to go further brainwashing them, tell them that valve sounds like real music and never ever buy solid state craps ;D
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Good job Bill introducing the young generation to high quality gear. Now, you need to go further brainwashing them, tell them that valve sounds like real music and never ever buy solid state craps
Not so sure all SS sounds like crap, and of recent times I way prefer valves, but I think an epiphany like that must happen in the fullness of time Minister.
Thanks
Bill
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Interestingly Bill speaking of DACs, for the last few months I had been listening to my new toy, my Otari MTR10 with valve output stage, and playing master tapes, the sound as you can imagine is amazing, believe me as good as it can get. So last week I decided to play my killerdac again, I started it up cold, transport and all, it had all been switched off for a month because of my new toy. Running through my mind was, will it even be listenable after the brilliant's of the Otari master tape compo. So on it went, cold and all, well as soon as the music started and it hit my ears, I turned to my girl and said, just listen to how natural and real it sounds, Most people will say something digital is not supposed to do, well it was just wonderful even cold, I played the dac for 4 days straight, never feeling short changed is any way. I even played some digital transfers from the Otari, playing the yarlung master tapes in 16 bit. The DAC and my Otari tape machine had a sameness to the sound ,a rightness you can say, Both painted with the same lovely brush, That taught me a lot, and what was that, don't change anything in this KillerDAC/Wadia transport combination
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Thank F@#$
That's a great outcome that you did not feel short changed going back to your old faithful. So how is the outboard Vv stage fed from the tape deck?
V
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Interestingly Bill speaking of DACs, for the last few months I had been listening to my new toy, my Otari MTR10 with valve output stage, and playing master tapes, the sound as you can imagine is amazing, believe me as good as it can get. So last week I decided to play my killerdac again, I started it up cold, transport and all, it had all been switched off for a month because of my new toy. Running through my mind was, will it even be listenable after the brilliant's of the Otari master tape compo. So on it went, cold and all, well as soon as the music started and it hit my ears, I turned to my girl and said, just listen to how natural and real it sounds, Most people will say something digital is not supposed to do, well it was just wonderful even cold, I played the dac for 4 days straight, never feeling short changed is any way. I even played some digital transfers from the Otari, playing the yarlung master tapes in 16 bit. The DAC and my Otari tape machine had a sameness to the sound ,a rightness you can say, Both painted with the same lovely brush, That taught me a lot, and what was that, don't change anything in this KillerDAC/Wadia transport combination
When I read last week that the Killer was going to be fed by a computer source for the Brisvegas shootout I thought there is no way Steven or Craig will let the Killer be fed by a computer source in any serious comparison test. I thought it would end up being fed by Craigs Wadia for sure. Being fed by an Offramp flies in the face of everything I've been told and experienced for myself about getting optimal performance from the Killer.
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It was dumb all right, but bill owns it, and he was going to do it anyway. It was Fed via MacDonald's, when it demanded lobster. I think bill as learned an important lesson.
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A fellow Coffs friend and Sna member was there. He has heard my system many times. He reckons there is no doubt The Killer at the GC blind test was hampered by grounding problems. He said it sounded very unKiller like. He thought the Phasure was head and shoulders above the others.
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A fellow Coffs friend and Sna member was there. He has heard my system many times. He reckons there is no doubt The Killer at the GC blind test was hampered by grounding problems. He said it sounded very unKiller like. He thought the Phasure was head and shoulders above the others.
There are further comparisons going on now to address the earthing issue.
I prefer the upgraded Wadia as source for the Killer, but for a blind test there were practicalities to consider. Rest assured there will be other comparisons down the line where the Killer is not so fed.
That the Phasure was head and shoulders above the rest was not my view - nor the general consensus.
My view of the best sound at the shootout was after when we played Peggy Lee - Fever via the Killer - the Lenard Cohen track in my view was far too contrived a recording to show the Killer off at its best.
Thanks
Bill
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Bill ... How did you find the other DACs with the Cohen track?
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Bill ... How did you find the other DACs with the Cohen track?
I think on that track I gave the edge to the Phasure - but the other two to the PDX - although it's growing a bit dim. The order was, worst to best, Killer, AMR, PDX, Phasure.
When I heard it again down at Mikes with the isolation platform and earth issue fixed I thought it much better - it didn't sound like electronic music to me. But I still didn't like it - it simply sounded funny. On that track the PDX was EASILY better. But on all the other stuff I tried - Peggy Lee, Sade, Dean Martin, I liked the Killer.
A few more people have heard it now compared to the new PDX, and I will let them post what they think.
But things are becoming a bit clearer. It's a bit like the Weston Amps I had. I really liked what they did to the music I listen to, but others not so much, some were in my camp on it, but not everyone by a long shot. Like all things in audio personal preference plays a big role.
Thanks
Bill
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It's a bit like the Weston Amps I had. I really liked what they did to the music I listen to, but others not so much, some were in my camp on it, but not everyone by a long shot.
Hi Bill,
I don't know anyone else on this forum who likes the Weston amp. We even had his supposedly top of the line preamp with super low output impedance compared to Steve's volume pot and the volume pot was simply better in all areas. He builds very nice looking gear but I have to say the sound quality is poor to average at best. I hope someone on here would play around with his gear and hot it up, see how far they can go. In theory, his output transformers are superb (spec and build wise).
I do want to support Australian products but they have to be great sounding too. I just hate those blind supports on SNA. It costs people a lot of money to swap things around and not all of us have the money to throw around buying hifi gear.
Cheers,
William
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The Weston amps are very nicely built, you must realize he has to make them with a price point in mind. Weston has to compete in the world of cheap. He cannot just throw in Duelunds and GEC U52s etc. I believe it would be extremely hard to imposable to make a elite sounding component at the prices he and others have sell them for. If we had one of this amps then filled it full of toys, it will sound real good, Weston uses his own very good output transformers and his circuitry is excellent. We will spend ultimately and wisely whatever it takes, Weston and others do not have that luxury. I would buy one of the Weston amps anyday over the Chinese amps.
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Yeah maybe if you compare the Weston to Chinese amps. But then again not all Chinese amps are bad. The Ming Da is a good example, and now there's Prima Luna that Bill likes more than any amps he has ever had (Weston, Arion, MacIntosh, Patek and the list goes on).
Forget all the reasoning behind why he let go the other amps. To me, the most important thing is what amps/DACs/speakers (or any other gear really) that people keep for themselves. After spending some money on hifi, I never believe people when they say it sounds good but eventually they sell them, for whatever reason.
If I have to choose between Weston and Ming Da at the same category of price, I would go for the Ming Da because they simply sound better....until you buy one of the Weston amps, tweak it and have me convinced that it does sound better than the Ming Da.
Look, Supratek sells MANY expensive hifi gear because they do sound pretty good. If the Weston products are very good sounding, I have no doubt people will buy regardless of the price. So, why the price should be the problem? Market segmentation perhaps? Make cheap products to sell more and profit more. But, would you sacrifice the quality of the gear you manufacture because you want more money? I am sure you will not.
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Also, let's not forget our very own Paul Baker (fallsaudio) here who builds magnificent sounding gear. For almost the same price you can get a magnificently build amp like Mario's (in stock form). I know exactly where I would spend my money on.
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and now there's that Bill likes more than any amps he has ever had (Weston, Arion, MacIntosh, Patek and the list goes on).
Well I never owned a Macintosh - Mike did.
And I don't think I ever said I like the Prima Luna more than any other because there is the matter of a certain upgraded Leak I heard and am now getting one upgraded myself.
I have not completed the upgrades yet, but as per a post I have recently made I think it may have the edge over the Prima Luna - but only time will tell.
But yes it is true I have owned a number of bits of gear and upgraded when I heard something better. Personally I consider that's all part of the learning inherent in this hobby - but maybe that's just me.
Thanks
Bill
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The Weston amps are very nicely built, you must realize he has to make them with a price point in mind. Weston has to compete in the world of cheap. He cannot just throw in Duelunds and GEC U52s etc. I believe it would be extremely hard to imposable to make a elite sounding component at the prices he and others have sell them for. If we had one of this amps then filled it full of toys, it will sound real good, Weston uses his own very good output transformers and his circuitry is excellent. We will spend ultimately and wisely whatever it takes, Weston and others do not have that luxury. I would buy one of the Weston amps anyday over the Chinese amps.
Other builders have similar problems. I have known Pat Turner many years and visited his workshop many times. He is a perfectionist, and ends up putting in many more hours than he could charge for. Some customers have supplied there own upgraded parts, though Pat hates to see people waste money, and is very sceptical about a lot of high price bits. There is a lot of hype and not all costly bits are worth the money, though if a customer want to spend the money, well buyer be aware.
While I am not a fan of Weston gear, the basics are right, they are well made, look good and don't have glaring faults like lots of hum, and eat tubes. Theres potential there for sure......
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Also, let's not forget our very own Paul Baker (fallsaudio) here who builds magnificent sounding gear. For almost the same price you can get a magnificently build amp like Mario's (in stock form). I know exactly where I would spend my money on.
Paul Baker is a bit under the radar for most people. A bit like a dark horse that seems to come from nowhere and surprises big time. He has done several projects for me and undersells his work, has achieved far more than he would say of him self. A great combination of deep experience, willingness try new things and love of music. For all of those working in jobs we don't particularly enjoy I also like the idea of funding some one to do what they love. Call it spreading karma if you like, but for me its more than just another financial transaction.
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Mike is thinking of holding some more blind tests of amps and DAC's.
Good luck to him I say if he feels like doing the hard yards bringing it about.
Sure, as long as he is open to discussing the approach, and he is willing to consider changes - then absolutely good luck to him.
There is nothing worse than going to all that trouble, to then have all the holes identified after the fact. Discuss them beforehand, and at least agree with any interested parties if it could be done better. There are always pros/cons.
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Sure, as long as he is open to discussing the approach, and he is willing to consider changes - then absolutely good luck to him. There is nothing worse than going to all that trouble, to then have all the holes identified after the fact. Discuss them beforehand, and at least agree with any interested parties if it could be done better. There are always pros/cons.
My gut tells me he hasn't considered exactly the amount of work in doing it.
We will see what eventuates.
Thanks
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I don't know anyone else on this forum who likes the Weston amp. We even had his supposedly top of the line preamp with super low output impedance compared to Steve's volume pot and the volume pot was simply better in all areas. He builds very nice looking gear but I have to say the sound quality is poor to average at best. I hope someone on here would play around with his gear and hot it up, see how far they can go. In theory, his output transformers are superb (spec and build wise).
I do want to support Australian products but they have to be great sounding too. I just hate those blind supports on SNA. It costs people a lot of money to swap things around and not all of us have the money to throw around buying hifi gear.
Cheers,
William
WRT volume pot versus the Weston top of line pre amp, this is a tough comparison for a pre amp.
If your system sounds very good without a pre amp and uses just a volume pot or stepped attenuator,
IME almost no pre amp is going to make it better. They can only minimize damage they are doing to the sound.
To get the very low OP impedance will require extra circuitry probably feedback and just makes things worse.
If your system is just about right with a passive volume pot / atten and you really need lower OP impedance / more drive
there is a very good unity gain tube buffer stage that I build which is direct coupled (no capacitor) that is probably the best option.
This will give almost the same sound as the volume pot but with more drive, the OP impedance is around 200 ohms which
is a good compromise and will drive just about anything. But to get this purity of audio path with no capacitors requires
some tricky circuitry and it's not a cheap solution.
Z
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Cap comparison discussion has been split out, and moved to the Capacitor sub forum. It's a valuable discussion to have in it's own merit.
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,2635.msg18172.html#new (http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,2635.msg18172.html#new)
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To get the very low OP impedance will require extra circuitry probably feedback and just makes things worse.
Hi Zen, what bugs me is that this super low output impedance preamp has been promoted as one of the main requirements for any good preamps (on SNA), so it's a BIG no for any high impedance preamps. As we all know, this can be VERY misleading.
If your system is just about right with a passive volume pot / atten and you really need lower OP impedance / more drive
there is a very good unity gain tube buffer stage that I build which is direct coupled (no capacitor) that is probably the best option.
This will give almost the same sound as the volume pot but with more drive, the OP impedance is around 200 ohms which
is a good compromise and will drive just about anything. But to get this purity of audio path with no capacitors requires
some tricky circuitry and it's not a cheap solution.
Z
I got one at home made in the US: http://dagogo.com/dodd-audio-battery-powered-tube-buffer-preamplifier-review
I really like it, it's got good drive, clarity and very musical. I gotta bring this to your place someday to compare to your buffer. It's not working now. I broke the power switch and I haven't got time to get it fixed.
Cheers,
William
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Hi Zen, what bugs me is that this super low output impedance preamp has been promoted as one of the main requirements for any good preamps (on SNA), so it's a BIG no for any high impedance preamps. As we all know, this can be VERY misleading.
Cheers,
William
It's all a matter of compromise and common sense.
Around 200 ohms output impedance will drive just about anything out there today easily. However you can certainly make a
pre amp that has 10 ohm OP impedance but you will have to use either some sort of feedback or an extra stage.
2 steps forward, 3 steps backward. ;)