Author Topic: Rip out those cheap caps  (Read 11441 times)

Offline ozcal

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Rip out those cheap caps
« on: October 19, 2010, 10:53:09 PM »
I am afraid I have the affliction.
When my Supratek pre came back from Mick it sounded a lot better but it still didn't sound the way I wanted it to.
Now ,I changed out the 3 main psu caps for a Mundorf M-lytic , Obligatto foil in oil and a huge Nichicon Super through.
I did the M-lytic  Obligatto first. The Nichicon coke can arrived this morning.
Once the initial caps ran in there was a big improvement in tone etc.
I reckon the Coke can will take a while to burn-in , was sounding a bit hi-fi this morning but as the day has worn on it's getting better.
Also got my Jensen cap to swap with the mundorf for a listen later on.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 10:56:41 PM by ozcal »
Listening with my ears :)

Offline mcb

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 11:05:47 PM »
Gordon,

That Mario has a lot to answer for ;D.

He has left the state for a while, so you may start getting better again.

Seriously, good to read about your experiences.

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 11:08:37 PM »
Ta Murray , pre runs cooler too  :D
Listening with my ears :)

Offline Braddles

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 11:14:20 PM »
Had enough room for it all too. Bonus ;)

Offline flemo

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 11:19:23 PM »
Oh Gordon,

You've got it bad mate - welcome to the club, what took you so long?? :D

Good to see mate, and yet disturbing such a well regarded expensive piece of kit requiring mod's!

I guess for the neysayers out there it just goes to show buying hi-end gear still requires attention to get them to perform at their best.   

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2010, 03:56:00 PM »
Oh Gordon,

You've got it bad mate - welcome to the club, what took you so long?? :D

Good to see mate, and yet disturbing such a well regarded expensive piece of kit requiring mod's!

I guess for the neysayers out there it just goes to show buying hi-end gear still requires attention to get them to perform at their best.   
He he , been modding for years Pete but Mario and Tuyen  etc have inspired me to go a bit further and look at the electronics and not just turntables and speakers.
Certainly been well worth the  $100 for the parts.
As to modding things like the Supratek : well ! the Chardonnay is Mick's entry level device and at $2100 au for the standard finish the value is pretty good imho. Now my $100 represents about an additional $500 at retail and that takes you close to Sauvignon price.
I guess what I am saying is that most commercial equipment can be improved/ changed to better match the end users taste. Seems to me that if the basic circuit design is excellent you can ring a few extra % of performance by careful part substitution and thats where I'm at at the moment. ;D
Gordon

Listening with my ears :)

crazikid

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 05:18:41 PM »
nice job ozcal...
You will probably find it will take a couple of hundred hours for those caps to open up and reach there full potential.

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 10:27:40 PM »
Thanks Crazi.
At home all day at the moment so the 200hrs or so should fly by. ;D
Listening with my ears :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 02:11:57 PM »
Thanks Crazi.
At home all day at the moment so the 200hrs or so should fly by. ;D
Guys there are parts that sound good, and some that are great, but most are ordinary, so dont just buy without asking fellow uses if they are first class sounding. I will try some abilgatto caps soon, price is good. 

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 05:26:59 PM »
Any opinion on the Mundorf M-lytic & Nichicon Super through Steven ?
Listening with my ears :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 03:34:05 PM »
Any opinion on the Mundorf M-lytic & Nichicon Super through Steven ?
Unfortunately. There is no certainty as to what parts to use. Nichicon caps are not real good., even the gold grade is only OK. Panasonic FCs are OK, but rough and course. Mundorf caps are cheap, but have real problems, they have a sameness with timber, do not sound real, but fake, artificial, a little like silver, some people may like them, but not me. Black gates caps, keep away from them, unmusical and sterile, no heart or body. Auri caps are OK and cheap, they are not bright and have rich timber, but a little rough and raged.  Red Elna cerafines can and are great in the right place, Elna black compact for HIFI can be very very good, Jenson 2 and 4 pole are excellent, also Sanyo oscon are very good, gold grade SG only. If you can, do not use electros at all, use polypropylene like solen PB ect. Use duelund on the important sections if you can afford it.  Anyway if you want, give me a ring and i will talk about parts, and what to get. At the end of the day it is a combination of colouration's in  parts that make it sound real.  its a juggling act, orchestrated by you .
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:37:48 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 04:21:53 PM »
Thanks for that Steve. I have a Jensen black 100uf 2 pole to swap with the Mundorf M-lytic.
It has screw fastenings , it it ok to remove the screws and solder directly to the screw cups?
Thanks,
Gordon



Listening with my ears :)

Offline kajak12

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 04:25:34 PM »
Thanks for that Steve. I have a Jensen black 100uf 2 pole to swap with the Mundorf M-lytic.
It has screw fastenings , it it ok to remove the screws and solder directly to the screw cups?
Thanks,
Gordon




just strip the wire and screw it down no need to solder
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 04:55:52 PM »
Hi Mario , there are several wires of different thicknesses going to each pole so I thought it would be better to solder.Will that be OK?  as a fair amount of heat will be needed , I think , to get a good joint.
Listening with my ears :)

Offline kajak12

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 05:05:30 PM »
Hi Mario , there are several wires of different thicknesses going to each pole so I thought it would be better to solder.Will that be OK?  as a fair amount of heat will be needed , I think , to get a good joint.
just twist the wire together and tin them with solder then screw them down as too much heat might f--k the cap up.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 05:27:31 PM »
Thanks for that Steve. I have a Jensen black 100uf 2 pole to swap with the Mundorf M-lytic.
It has screw fastenings , it it ok to remove the screws and solder directly to the screw cups?
Thanks,
Gordon




Rap some (striped of the plastic cat 5) around the screw so it sticks out about 1 inch wind it togther so its double and solder, attach all the your wires to that.

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2010, 05:39:47 PM »
Cheers Steven and Mario
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 05:44:10 PM by ozcal »
Listening with my ears :)

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 10:24:51 PM »
Installed the Jensen in place of the M-lytic this morning. Good result , not perfect but guess I have lots more run in to do ;D.
Will get another Jensen to replace the Nichicon ST and see how that compares.
Listening with my ears :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2010, 01:32:33 AM »
Installed the Jensen in place of the M-lytic this morning. Good result , not perfect but guess I have lots more run in to do ;D.
Will get another Jensen to replace the Nichicon ST and see how that compares.

ozcal. Its not just a mater of soldering in good sounding parts, you need to play with all combinations over a long time and you will know when you have hit the jackpot. I have taken 10 years to get my amps right. Its a lot of fun and you learn along the way about the sound of wire, caps, resistors, valves, and  the combos that work, sometimes cheap or ordinary parts in the right order sound great, but great ones can be even better. The great thing is every time you put in a new part, you have a new sound. Tailor it to you and your system. I did not listen to master tapes, to tune, i went out and listened to real music, mainly unamplified classical. That's what i used as a yard stick. Make it sound like that......  The most important thing is to get the timber of instruments right, without that you have nothing. Then go forward from there, without hurting what you have already done.  Make no mistake its hard  (but fun) to make greatness, but we need to do something with our time on earth.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 01:50:38 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozcal

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Re: Rip out those cheap caps
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2010, 12:52:12 PM »
Thanks Steven. I do understand.
Funny you suggest listening to live , unamplified music to get a reference , that's exactly what I used to tell my customers ;D
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Gordon
Listening with my ears :)