Author Topic: great amps on the web  (Read 29922 times)

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2012, 11:05:10 AM »
Very advanced...i had quite an expensive one..on loan..only for my hometheater sub. :o
BAD....Before and after was shocking...I will never ever say there is no music on 80 hz and down....that is unless you leave the equalizer in  :P
Yes Erick agreed. ;D
I have too used eqs to stop feedback on vocal monitors etc and here they work by cutting the frequencies where feedabck is present but for audio..... :(. well they appear to change the timing and pitch too much with music becoming synthetic and compressed.  Must be all that additional 'standard' (read cheap and cheerfull) componetry inside.  I have recapped all my graphics which helps a bit and where sh#t opamps are in duty replaced them with some OPA's etc.  Cost ahem, if you factor in labour = poor deal all round.  I should add I have graphics from Rane, Technics and Yamaha some of which are fairly expensive, all are third octave types.

If you run the bass only through the eq then a lot less damage will be done as opposed to running the whole signal through it but I am assuming as it was for sub duty only, this was not the case. Room modes become dominante beneath around 70Hz in a reasonably sized room and a bit of eq here can prevent boom.  Incidentley, sub is beneath audibility which means < 17Hz, its just plain bass down to that point IMV.

The deqx from Oz being in the digital domain may do less harm but I have yet to hear this system and if its anything like CD players with quartz crystals to  control timing (and produce jitter) then they have a long way to go before they reach maturity unless fitted with something approaching a Zen clock speaking of which....you have never heard your CD player at it's best unless the clock is of a much higher calibre, gains are extrodinary and quite outwith my experiance of any other single component change and that includes Duelands.............. :o
V ;D
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Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2012, 11:11:02 AM »
Correct V! It was state of the art equalisers....20 YEARS AGO!  ;D

I wonder how advance the equalisers are nowadays  :P
Has anyone got the DEQX so can speak from experiance? ::) ::)
Graphics are still the same from what I can see. :-X
The newer digital gear for consumers are all built down to a price so can sound very "plastic".
Intelligent placing of speakers along with selected interconnects and speaker wire can ameliorate a lot of woes without recourse to brute force measures which is what I consider eqs are for in most instances. :(
V ;D
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2012, 03:42:37 PM »
I have too used eqs to stop feedback on vocal monitors etc and here they work by cutting the frequencies where feedabck is present but for audio..... :(. well they appear to change the timing and pitch too much with music becoming synthetic and compressed.  Must be all that additional 'standard' (read cheap and cheerfull) componetry inside.  I have recapped all my graphics which helps a bit and where sh#t opamps are in duty replaced them with some OPA's etc.  Cost ahem, if you factor in labour = poor deal all round.  I should add I have graphics from Rane, Technics and Yamaha some of which are fairly expensive, all are third octave types.


Any live performance on e decent PA will be going through stereo 31 band graphic.

For PA, try a Klark Teknik (old one) with inductors inside or a White.

Further to the above, 99% of recording will have been through some sort of equalisation whether it be in the recording stage
are the mastering stage.

Recently repaired one of these:  http://www.mil-media.com/nseq-2.html  and it sounded pretty darn good.

WRT normal opamp based graphics, they can be made very transparent but need best opamps, class A bias, good
power supplies, components etc. I don't know any pro graphics that have all this. They always use 5532 / TL072.

cheers

T

Offline Erik van Voorst

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2012, 08:36:32 PM »

Has anyone got the DEQX so can speak from experience
V ;D
[/quote]

Yes I had the DEQX somewhere around 2004 as a try out on my U-571 sub (homebuilt see topic) with a 1000 Watt Carlsbro amplifier with Magnum van den Hul speaker cable  and a Denon HT Receiver and Panasonic Bluray player, the saddest part was that I lost a lot of dynamics once that machine was connected.

EDIT SORRY GUYS checked it out MADE A HUGE MISTAKE AND MIXED IT  WITH THE DCX2496....bear with me it was 7 years ago  :D
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 11:44:59 PM by Erik van Voorst »

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2012, 01:19:42 AM »
Denon HT and pana blue ray????? :-\
Hmmmm. Did you have really good dynamics in the first place? No dissrespect meant. ;D
Carlsboro power amps are used by disco's mainly, do they have good grip and dynamics? ::)
You have compared the before and after so how where you feeding the woofer before the arrival of the DEQX?
From memory (never good) there has been several upgrades to the early DEQX so maybe it's better at doing dynamics now.
Were you using the active crossover feature of the device to bring the 'sub' woofer up beneath the main speakers?

Subs should be constained to <50 hz IMV and with a decent main pair of speakers< 30hz. :o
I am struggling to think of what in the lower bass range that has real dynamics, kettle drums are above the grumbly stuff and organ whilst being powerful I'd hardly describe as being dynamic in the same way as a rim shot etc but that's just my limited understanding.  Now slam and weight are totally different and I could understand a reduction in speed and weight which some might call dynamics but I judge you better versed than this.  You have obviously moved on from the HT system with your main music replay system which we all here admire as an act of dedication to the art.  And yes most of us understand losing sleep over some new pure silver output transformers, my mouth usually goes very dry in the anticipation! :'(
V :D
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Offline Erik van Voorst

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2012, 03:58:09 AM »
 :D...2004 remember...building my dedicated HT

The Carlsbro easily outperformed my Krell KSA 50 when hooked to my sub.
I guess no substitute for cubic inches... 8) ..50 Watts against 1000 Watts ...ahum
No problem nowadays I use the Krell on the Fronts.

My U-571 Home-brewed sub is very dynamic if I may be so moddest.

Specs:

woofer kevlar Focal 15k8711 15 Inch.

poort Aluminium 15 cm dia bij 50 cm length (20 Hz)
cabinet 80 cm x  70 cm x  60 cm.
weight 275 kg.
content 220 liter netto.

walls MDF 22 mm x Sand 22 mm x MDF 22 mm= plm. 7 cm thick
woofer (launch)platform 8 cm thick Downfire

cross-over:   80 Hz - how low can you go
(one day my wife came upstairs shouting that the glasswork downstairs came out off the cupboard... 8)

Anyway to put your mind at rest  :D
At the moment I do have a Lexicon and an Oppo together with (original) Avalons with 8 main amplifiers quite a sick arrangement but a lot of fun watching films...

BTW I just realised how off topic so feel free to put it elswhere  :-[
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 04:15:14 AM by Erik van Voorst »

Offline treblid

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2012, 11:24:55 AM »
Wow... That is huge!! And yet so beautiful!

Nicely done.

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2012, 05:54:12 PM »
What only one 15" for generating bass.............. :-X
No wonder you needed a lot more drive from the amp. :o
With bass units you are generally better employing multiples as if they need to excurt enough to easily be visible doing so then they will not display the same speed and lack of hangover giving rise to the lack of dynamics.  Also whilst I am at it woofers facing the floor never worked for me as they slow down the wavefront to an unaceptable degree for me! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean, any less and you cannot move sufficient air to create a realistic wavefront unless you employ horn loaded drivers. :'(  The Kevlar bass unit you employ may not be the fastest in the focal range either.  I learnt from my Meridain actives that 4 x 5 " kef units actively driven per side can provide fast bass down to resonance with music and that larger bass units (such as 18" drivers) tend to sound slow in comparison.  I have 16 such units and when brought in beneath JBL kick cabs slows down the sound despite having the best BL of any driver of that size!

Thinking about this further you are deploying this arrangement for HT use so it's all the grumbly stuff in movies as opposed to music so it will be less critical audio wise.  Have you tried simply turning the cabinet on its side to have the driver facing forward? ;) ;)

To leave this on a positve note the cabinet with sand damping all sounds very good. ;D  MDF is heavy, did you brace this internally too?
With bass, energy is wasted flapping walls but you know all this due to your other sterling designs. ;D  What velocity does the port reach at the box tuning and what is the final Q?  ??? Any lossy damping internally will also slow down the sound.  ::) Do you have suspended wooden floors or concrete?  Tuning to such a low frequency may also impact upon the speed of the final outcome, sometimes an IB can be prefferential in speed terms for such LF duty.  All IMV (SNA) but based upon self builds and experiance.  Final point, Class D amps, the new boys on the bock have very high damping factors and grip on the dirver and can enhance the speed / transient delivary of the driver making them quite suitable for low bass drivers even when ported.
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2012, 06:19:43 PM »
Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean

4 x 15" drivers minimum!?!  :o Yeah....I have to agree with this, love those Altecs! I just wish I had bigger room to put them in  ???
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Offline Erik van Voorst

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2012, 07:49:44 PM »
I see your point in using a class D amp and it will definitely be on my list once this breaks down.
I use a completely different view in my HT, such a vision I will never have "downstairs".
Although one of the simularities is that I am not especially a bass lover. I find films a whole different ballgame so I approach it different.

 This sub is a nice extension of my Avalons and only to be noticeable with an explosion or other LFE
effect. I simply do not recall all the specifics anymore. Every now and than I do change something in my HT but my real passion stays " downstairs"  with audio.

Btw
I do have a second subwoofer in the back dedicated for my sides so I can use them full range, e.g. for audio I myself would never use a separate subwoofer.
I also build a center (my very first homemade speaker....since what I wanted did not exist...hahahaha) which is nearly full range (1.85 cm long) and driven by a dedicated OTL, all meaning to say that for my personal taste it all does move a lot (enough)  of air when needed  :D
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 08:24:05 PM by Erik van Voorst »

Offline kajak12

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #90 on: January 04, 2012, 08:44:40 PM »
Just to complete this view you really need a minimum of 4 x 15" drivers to convey an effortless realism in the bass and keep transients clean

4 x 15" drivers minimum!?!  :o Yeah....I have to agree with this, love those Altecs! I just wish I had bigger room to put them in  ???
ahhh yes i remember that sound of beauty straight from vinyl  ;) ;)
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Jehuty

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2012, 01:10:32 AM »
http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DA08_300b_Main_frame.htm

Tube monoblocks for less than $1k a pair! Extremely tempted....
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Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2012, 02:33:38 AM »
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2012, 02:57:20 AM »
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation. This is a dream come true for anyone who wants to get tube monoblocks at reasonable price. Btw, you might want to get a pair for your (another) birthday presents  ;)
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Offline ozmillsy

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2012, 09:56:44 PM »
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation.
This is a good point W.   Although it would be nice if the foundations had a fraction more space,  it's quite a compact looking unit.

The first mod to make, would be to bypass the volume pot, I reckon.

These could be suitable for a future project I'm contemplating.

BTW;  I was up at SV's and he pointed out the amp you're building.   :o  :o :o  It's a freaking monster dude !!   ;D
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2012, 10:04:33 PM »
I was up at SV's and he pointed out the amp you're building.   :o  :o :o  It's a freaking monster dude !!   ;D

Thanks for the compliment  ;D

It's just a mock up model Oz, it'll be pretty when I get it into a properly design chassis  :)
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Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2012, 11:14:47 PM »
That's the point V, the monoblocks will provide a good foundation for not much money and we already know Monarchy Audio's good reputation. This is a dream come true for anyone who wants to get tube monoblocks at reasonable price. Btw, you might want to get a pair for your (another) birthday presents  ;)
Ha ha, yes I already have an AudioNote 300b amp although it's a stero chassis.................Now if I really wanted to spend some serious dosh I would be battering down Yoshino's door for some of those magnificent MANLY black racks of power cinema amps, druel gibber sob :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
V
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Offline kajak12

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2012, 12:35:10 AM »
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
Monarchy audio !!!!!!!

I had the ss amps in perth a few years ago from mike lenehan for demo crap crap crap so is the monarchy audio dac its crap crap i hope they know what to do with valves with ss they are not recommended
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2012, 03:04:59 AM »
Wow Mario that is a super low price for a SE300b tube amp.  :o  You'd have to change your speakers though as 8 watts max may not do it for you for all but lowish level listening. :-\ :-X Monachy audio have always offered good VFM and at that price unbeatable value. I have a feeling that you'd pretty soon rip them apart to place premium parts inside like Duelands etc.  ;D
V
Monarchy audio !!!!!!!

I had the ss amps in perth a few years ago from mike lenehan for demo crap crap crap so is the monarchy audio dac its crap crap i hope they know what to do with valves with ss they are not recommended
Interesting, exactly what was the rest of the equipment used in conjuction with the MA stuff? It would help to arrive at a more balanced view.  Surely not the KDAC with the MA stuff?!?!  Synergy rules.
V
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: great amps on the web
« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2012, 02:11:00 AM »
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.