Author Topic: How to Build a killer Amp  (Read 44250 times)

Offline audiophool

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2012, 04:05:57 AM »
Ooooer Willem, the Wallabys could use a couple of bookends like those :D

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »
Ooooer Willem, the Wallabys could use a couple of bookends like those :D

Or door stops  :P

For bigger door you need a bigger trannie....
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Offline audiophool

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2012, 03:53:37 PM »
So how did the comparison go ?
Enquiring minds want to know  ???
and it's after midday so we can believe you now  :-\
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 03:55:17 PM by audiophool »

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2012, 04:06:29 PM »
Sorry guys, didn't get the time to hook up the OPTs. We were too busy ripping apart my dac, a few upgrades were done and by the time we finished it's already very late and I had to get back to Sydney. To be continued...(hopefully next week during Easter holiday).
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Offline stevenvalve

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2012, 04:33:33 PM »
Sorry guys, didn't get the time to hook up the OPTs. We were too busy ripping apart my dac, a few upgrades were done and by the time we finished it's already very late and I had to get back to Sydney. To be continued...(hopefully next week during Easter holiday).
Well i have had a listen to the Tribute C core out put transformers ($600 landed) and i must say they are very good. My output C core transformers are In a league of there own so i did not expect these to compare. The Tributes have the same kind of balance as mine,  Full with weight and body, they are also very transparent smooth and relaxed, but i detected some whiteness or (as vitavoxdude would say greyness)  that reminds me of the sound of silver, but the company (Tribute) has said to William via email, that there is no silver in them, but if you look at the picture, those lead out wires look silver, and in the flesh, in front of me they look to be silver. Remember that picture is before they are potted with black resin.  All up these are very very good transformers and if you have some made make sure they use copper solid core for the lead out wire not silver or tin plated copper.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:41:36 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline data

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2012, 05:24:51 PM »
They sound like a very nice buy, 600 is a bargain for a big set of nice OT's, and landed  8)

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2012, 05:59:41 PM »
Sorry guys, didn't get the time to hook up the OPTs. We were too busy ripping apart my dac, a few upgrades were done and by the time we finished it's already very late and I had to get back to Sydney. To be continued...(hopefully next week during Easter holiday).
Well i have had a listen to the Tribute C core out put transformers ($600 landed) and i must say they are very good. My output C core out put transformers are In a league of there own so i did not expect these to compare. The Tributes have the same kind of balance as mine,  Full with weight and body, they are also very transparent smooth and relaxed, but i detected some whiteness or (as vitavoxdude would say greyness)  that reminds me of the sound of silver, but the company (Tribute) has said to William via email, that there is no silver in them, but if you look at the picture, those lead out wires look silver, and in the flesh, in front of me they look to be silver. Remember that picture is before they are potted with black resin.  All up these are very very good transformers and if you have some made make sure they use copper solid core for the lead out wire not silver or tin plated copper.

Wow Steve, thank you so much for the write up, very generous review there.

I have indeed asked Pieter T about the silver and his replied was "No, there is no silver in the transformers.
Cores are HiB silicon steel double c-cores; coils are wound with normal copper magnet wire." I tried a follow up email asking about the wires he used to connect the coils to the terminals, I haven't heard back from him yet. He's a very busy person because Tribute is basically a one man operation manufacturer so I guess if he doesn't reply that just means the wires are copper. See attached pic, one of the factor I made my decision to go for Tribute was because of that picture, I can't see any silver in that power transformer...At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding and as Steve said there's a whiteness in them, it could be because of silver or simply because of Tribute's fundamental design that makes them to sound like that.

Well for me it seems that all the attributes of great output transformers are already there, except for that whiteness...of which I haven't been able to really understand what it is, so I guess I should be happy with this purchase, at least I will be able to use them for my bass amp. My search for output transformers continues...
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Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2012, 10:10:32 PM »
Hmmm, the previous image showing the transformer clearly showed the output terminals connected to the windings with either a plated wire or even possibly Ag wire.  The second image does not have the same connecting technique so which one is which????:-\

OK here is my attempt at flushing out the whiteness or greyness as I prefer to call it.  By having multiple materials employed you are going to introduce different shades / thinness/ colour added to the mix as well as different characteristic velocity properties.  When a less good component or wire is introduced something is taken away in the overall result, e.g. all the notes are there but they appear washed out and not colourful and entertaining as a different combination; detail whilst itís what we are all striving for is not the whole picture without vividness and a sense of being real.

I have had many systems which throw detail at you but sound thin, not really alive and washed out and grey in nature.  Contrast this with more colourful systems usually valve based and the picture nearly always changes, that is to say detail does not get thrust into you face but is provided in a less obvious way. So to equate and support the greyness issue I draw on photography as a comparison.  Fuji Film favoured the primary colours differently to Kodak film; clearly a lot of pro's could differentiate between the two and express their preferences.  Vibrant reds and oranges as opposed to more blue make a substantial difference to the results and we are talking film here.  Photos taken at first light or sundown produces more glow (orange) and gives photos more punch and pleasure to the eye.   Which one is more accurate?  Well does it really matter, one conveys more humanness and draws you to enjoying the image and the other is just another picture.  One could therefore conclude that the greater colour saturation the more pleasing to the eye, simmerly the fuller harmonically rich sounds are more pleasing than the grey 'sterile' depiction of the original recording via less natural amplification etc. :-X

V ;D
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Offline zenelectro

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2012, 01:50:39 AM »

OK here is my attempt at flushing out the whiteness or greyness as I prefer to call it.  By having multiple materials employed you are going to introduce different shades / thinness/ colour added to the mix as well as different characteristic velocity properties.  When a less good component or wire is introduced something is taken away in the overall result, e.g. all the notes are there but they appear washed out and not colourful and entertaining as a different combination; detail whilst itís what we are all striving for is not the whole picture without vividness and a sense of being real.


It's most likely got more to do with the winding geometry and inter layer insulation material.

Check the pic, these traffos have more interleaved P/S windings than I have ever seen on an audio OP traffo.

WRT winding interleaving, the theory of some's good, more's better, too much = just enough doesn't necessarily hold.
There is an optimum number after which the whole thing starts to look more like a big capacitor (= simple explanation).

Do you know what he uses for inter layer insulation. This is very important.

My 2c worth - I used to work at a transformer manufacturer.

PS - I'll do a backflip if those conn wires are not silver :)

PSS - WRT quality of construction, they look bloody nice 

T
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 01:52:42 AM by zenelectro »

Offline audiophool

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2012, 08:30:50 AM »
Very interesting reading, big thanks to all for their contributions.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2012, 08:55:57 AM »
Do you know what he uses for inter layer insulation. This is very important.

Hi T,

I gathered the information from his postings on diyaudio, here it is:

"There has been quite some development in interleaving materials.
I don't vacuum impregnate audio transformers for the reason you mentioned, but nevertheless I use kraft paper. The material I use is actually a sandwich consisting of two layers of kraftpaper with a layer of mylar in between, and can withstand a voltage differential of 6 kV which should be good enough for audio transformers. Total thickness is 5 mils (0,13 mm).
I think paper has a slight advantage over mylar when we speak of dielectric, teflon is even better but pretty expensive and more difficult to apply. "

Source: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/197999-transformer-potting-material-what-material-3.html#post2737815

Cheers,
William
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Offline zenelectro

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2012, 11:24:01 AM »
Do you know what he uses for inter layer insulation. This is very important.

Hi T,

I gathered the information from his postings on diyaudio, here it is:

"There has been quite some development in interleaving materials.
I don't vacuum impregnate audio transformers for the reason you mentioned, but nevertheless I use kraft paper. The material I use is actually a sandwich consisting of two layers of kraftpaper with a layer of mylar in between, and can withstand a voltage differential of 6 kV which should be good enough for audio transformers. Total thickness is 5 mils (0,13 mm).
I think paper has a slight advantage over mylar when we speak of dielectric, teflon is even better but pretty expensive and more difficult to apply. "

Source: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/197999-transformer-potting-material-what-material-3.html#post2737815

Cheers,
William


There may possibly be your answer, it is difficult to know.

Mylar = Polyester. As a generalization is not best sounding dielectric for capacitors.

However, until you try a bunch of insulating materials with all else the same it's all conjecture.


cheers

T

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2012, 12:08:00 PM »
Do you know what he uses for inter layer insulation. This is very important.

Hi T,

I gathered the information from his postings on diyaudio, here it is:

"There has been quite some development in interleaving materials.
I don't vacuum impregnate audio transformers for the reason you mentioned, but nevertheless I use kraft paper. The material I use is actually a sandwich consisting of two layers of kraftpaper with a layer of mylar in between, and can withstand a voltage differential of 6 kV which should be good enough for audio transformers. Total thickness is 5 mils (0,13 mm).
I think paper has a slight advantage over mylar when we speak of dielectric, teflon is even better but pretty expensive and more difficult to apply. "

Source: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/197999-transformer-potting-material-what-material-3.html#post2737815

Cheers,
William


There may possibly be your answer, it is difficult to know.

Mylar = Polyester. As a generalization is not best sounding dielectric for capacitors.

However, until you try a bunch of insulating materials with all else the same it's all conjecture.


cheers

T

Yes indeed Mylar = Polyester when i have tried caps with this stuff as the dielectric, they had the same flavor as these output tranformers. 

Offline springcreek

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2012, 09:22:06 AM »
William I'm looking forward to hearding your amp when it's finished...hope to build one just like it. ;)

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2012, 08:01:45 PM »
Hi Andy,

You're welcome to have a listen whenever you're around my place. I'll be working on my amp again tomorrow at Steve's and hopefully it will be ready to run afterwards :)

Cheers,
William
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline springcreek

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2012, 09:58:41 AM »
William did you guys get it finished? Love to see some pics mate.
Did you have a listen? If you get stuck for somewhere to store it until you get you speaker cabs... I might know a place :0)

Offline Jehuty

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2012, 07:02:23 PM »
Hi Andy, it's ready to run but we didn't get the chance to do it due to my commitments on other matter today. The first trial will be run next week, I'll keep you posted.

PS: I don't think you would like to have that amp in your place, ugly, big and super heavy just like frankenstein :D
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Offline kajak12

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2012, 10:18:08 PM »


PS: I don't think you would like to have that amp in your place, ugly, big and super heavy just like frankenstein :D
That sounds like stevenvalve :D
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline springcreek

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2012, 06:30:12 AM »
Well I am a scientist so it would fit right in around here  :P

Good luck when you start it up...hopefully not full of smoke  ;D

Cheers, Andy

Offline omodo

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Re: How to Build a killer Amp
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2012, 08:43:39 AM »
all electronics are full of smoke, the trick is not letting it escape ;) ;D