Author Topic: Resistor games  (Read 80799 times)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2017, 11:15:35 PM »
Does SNA run the Sydney HiFi show or the Melbourne HiFi show?
SNA did run one of the two Melbourne HiFi shows last year, but not Sydney.

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2017, 08:07:04 PM »
This is an interesting post on resistors, cut and pasted from https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/top-resistors?sort_order=desc

I have tried several resistors, some of them are best sounding for me and most of them sounds different if you change the dirrection on which you'll start the input signal.

Here's the result: (caution: quite long) :) and sorry if my english not really good

AUDIO RESISTOR COMPARISON SOUND AND DIRECTION TEST

TAKMAN REX – CARBON COMPOSITE
>>> Bit edgy and hard sound and less detail, less bold than Riken RN std in the same direction but more organized
<<< Sweeter, more detailed, more musical, more airy and bit more warm, tone more balanced and organized
DALE RN60 METAL FILM – MIL SPEC
>>> Quite neutral, detailed high and crisp, more bold sound than takman (or more like direct cable I guest), not as sweet as Takman but less edgy and breathe music more –strong bass also + bit hard if compare to direct straight wire (less liquid)
<<< Bit sweeter but less bold, airy too, clearer high bit, and more musical a bit, still have strong bass but little lean
RIKEN RMG – CARBON (I like this resistor when it compare to almost all this reviewed resistor except TX2575)
>>> Sweet and spacious sound, detailed and airy, good bass and warm mid – bit laidback compare to shinkoh
<<< As mentioned above but bit more musical, more breathe, but bit less definition and bit less dynamic
AUDIONOTE TANTALUM
>>> Sweet and musical, not as much air as Takman (in reverse direction), good bass – felt bit tubelike sound and midrange domination
<<< As mentioned above but bit less bass leading edge (I need more test on this)
RIKEN RN STANDARD (BROWN COATING AND NO GOLD PLATED)
>>> Bit sharp high, bit edgy / hard, but good definition
<<< Warmer sound and bit woolly bass, more musical and rich, staging more wider and deeper (also compare to Takman) – bit midrange domination
SHINKOH JAPANESSE TANTALUM
>>> Sweet, detailed and airy and have big dimension in sound stage, quite neutral sound and draw me to music deeper (I feel overdominate in midrange compare to Riken or other neutral sounding resistor and then I decided to remove it and substitute with neutral sounding resistor) + slightly thinner sound compare to straight wire but calm presentation and leaner bass.
<<< As mentionded above but bit warmer sound (coloration I think) and bit overdetail high (edgier)
MILLS WIREWOUND 5 WATT
>>> Neutral sound, airy and dynamic sound, but not as sweet as tants, leading edge also in good side
<<< Less definition a bit but seems sweeter a bit / warmer (need more test)
KIWAME CARBON 2 WATT
>>> Bit noisy and high more apparent, other are quite neutral (need more test)
<<< Bit sweet and detailed also more airy (need more test)
KOA METAL FILM
>>> Sound more like Dale RN60, detailed and airy, bit sweet also
<<< As mentioned above but less bass, bit bright side but not sharp (need more test)

VISHAY NAKED Z-FOIL TX2575 or Z201
>>> This is what I say about, almost perfect resistor, the sound is all you wish your audio equipments sounds, imidiate, harmonic detail, open, detail but not sharp high, great bass, musical, neutral and smooth mid but not overly sweet, great dynamic, clean sound and fast – Very Recommended for upgrading – the effect almost like you change standard capacitor with much better one. My only complain is it added bit bass to male and female vocal, makes it bit thick. I never try other direction since it says no direction because of laser etched foil technology is almos equal on both side.
AMTRANS AMRG 2W CARBON RESISTOR
>>> Compare to riken RMG – this resistor bit more open and more neutral but less lusher. Better in music description and more musical compare to dale metal film. For musical taste I like riken than this amtrans.
<<< Less neutral and less lusher (bit forward)

Any killer dac thoughts IRTT???
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline kajak12

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2017, 08:08:41 PM »
Does SNA run the Sydney HiFi show or the Melbourne HiFi show?
SNA will run anything just for $$$$$ just read the reviews  ;D
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2017, 09:19:35 PM »
Well money is the evil driver behind most things.  I am just glad that they sponsor such an event, having a show is better than no show surely?

Reviews, well you have to read between the lines a little at times, but it does fuel our dreams and I'd much rather have SNA than not. Reading reviews for the past 35 odd years you get a feel for what is and is not being said.  Usually the last line tells all as in the reviewer bought the sample!

SNA sow's a lot of seeds, but for dedicated types, they always seek out alternative posts and outlets to satisfy their quest IMV.
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2017, 09:40:36 AM »
the reviewer bought the sample!

The quote I always look for in the first place before I start reading the whole review.
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline yarhevarhe

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2017, 08:18:35 PM »
SNA seems quite bad to me and not good at all and you are probably right regarding the $$$$$

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2017, 08:23:05 PM »
This is an interesting post on resistors, cut and pasted from https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/top-resistors?sort_order=desc

I have tried several resistors, some of them are best sounding for me and most of them sounds different if you change the dirrection on which you'll start the input signal.

Here's the result: (caution: quite long) :) and sorry if my english not really good

AUDIO RESISTOR COMPARISON SOUND AND DIRECTION TEST

TAKMAN REX – CARBON COMPOSITE
>>> Bit edgy and hard sound and less detail, less bold than Riken RN std in the same direction but more organized
<<< Sweeter, more detailed, more musical, more airy and bit more warm, tone more balanced and organized
DALE RN60 METAL FILM – MIL SPEC
>>> Quite neutral, detailed high and crisp, more bold sound than takman (or more like direct cable I guest), not as sweet as Takman but less edgy and breathe music more –strong bass also + bit hard if compare to direct straight wire (less liquid)
<<< Bit sweeter but less bold, airy too, clearer high bit, and more musical a bit, still have strong bass but little lean
RIKEN RMG – CARBON (I like this resistor when it compare to almost all this reviewed resistor except TX2575)
>>> Sweet and spacious sound, detailed and airy, good bass and warm mid – bit laidback compare to shinkoh
<<< As mentioned above but bit more musical, more breathe, but bit less definition and bit less dynamic
AUDIONOTE TANTALUM
>>> Sweet and musical, not as much air as Takman (in reverse direction), good bass – felt bit tubelike sound and midrange domination
<<< As mentioned above but bit less bass leading edge (I need more test on this)
RIKEN RN STANDARD (BROWN COATING AND NO GOLD PLATED)
>>> Bit sharp high, bit edgy / hard, but good definition
<<< Warmer sound and bit woolly bass, more musical and rich, staging more wider and deeper (also compare to Takman) – bit midrange domination
SHINKOH JAPANESSE TANTALUM
>>> Sweet, detailed and airy and have big dimension in sound stage, quite neutral sound and draw me to music deeper (I feel overdominate in midrange compare to Riken or other neutral sounding resistor and then I decided to remove it and substitute with neutral sounding resistor) + slightly thinner sound compare to straight wire but calm presentation and leaner bass.
<<< As mentionded above but bit warmer sound (coloration I think) and bit overdetail high (edgier)
MILLS WIREWOUND 5 WATT
>>> Neutral sound, airy and dynamic sound, but not as sweet as tants, leading edge also in good side
<<< Less definition a bit but seems sweeter a bit / warmer (need more test)
KIWAME CARBON 2 WATT
>>> Bit noisy and high more apparent, other are quite neutral (need more test)
<<< Bit sweet and detailed also more airy (need more test)
KOA METAL FILM
>>> Sound more like Dale RN60, detailed and airy, bit sweet also
<<< As mentioned above but less bass, bit bright side but not sharp (need more test)

VISHAY NAKED Z-FOIL TX2575 or Z201
>>> This is what I say about, almost perfect resistor, the sound is all you wish your audio equipments sounds, imidiate, harmonic detail, open, detail but not sharp high, great bass, musical, neutral and smooth mid but not overly sweet, great dynamic, clean sound and fast – Very Recommended for upgrading – the effect almost like you change standard capacitor with much better one. My only complain is it added bit bass to male and female vocal, makes it bit thick. I never try other direction since it says no direction because of laser etched foil technology is almos equal on both side.
AMTRANS AMRG 2W CARBON RESISTOR
>>> Compare to riken RMG – this resistor bit more open and more neutral but less lusher. Better in music description and more musical compare to dale metal film. For musical taste I like riken than this amtrans.
<<< Less neutral and less lusher (bit forward)

Any killer dac thoughts IRTT???
Just shows there is no absolute in this game we play, All system dependant. Can't say i agree with most his findings, As an example i find the Riken 2 watt to be dark and undetailed, but grainless and sweet. All up lacking life, not really vibrant and alive, great on a bright dry system. Timbre is just to Dark with a sameness with instrument textures.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:35:07 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2017, 11:02:51 AM »
Here is another link to an extensive resistor test in a variety of positions, DAC, Pre amp, Phono and power amp.  Certainly one of the more exhaustive examples and a good read.  You will need to use a translator (google).

http://diytriode.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/1092015-weglowe-rezystory-w-audio.html

 :D :D :D :D :D :D
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2017, 10:51:59 AM »
You also have to consider the value of the resistor - it's really important.

For example, if you have a fairly high impedance circuit, say after the OP of a pre amp tube, then a 100 ohm resistor will
make much lass difference than say a 10kohm resistor.

Other rules can apply also, for example in Cathode circuit, if the resistor is shunted with a cap, as is commonly done you will hear the cap mostly
and then some of the resistor, but not much compared to cap.

Then there are tricks to 'hide' resistors. Often 6922 tubes have grid stopper resistors for stability. Some people don't like the sound of them
in front of the tube. A trick I often use is to wind a thin coil of wire over a carbon comp (A.B.) resistor. At audio freq the wire shorts the resistor out
to nothing.  At freq where it wants to oscillate, the wire becomes an air coiled inductor damped by the resistor.

 I bet you haven't seen that before!

:)  :)   :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »
Received an message from one of our members in Italy and i thought it will be of interest here.

I have read with interest your post on resistor sound.
As you can read here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/182611-tantalum-resistors-whats-3.html
I have found results very similar to yours, i.e. Shinkoh are the best,
followed by Allen Bradley 2W and AN tantalum non-magnetic.
I have tried also the relatively new Takman (metal and Carbon) but
none was in same league with the previous 3, and with Shinkoh in
particular. My simple question to you is if you have any update (what
comes close to Shinkoh in your opinion?) or if you had the opportunity
to test also others like Vishay bulk/Z foil or Tepro RA or others.
Best regards!
Tino
http://digilander.libero.it/agostino.manzato/audio/audio.html

Tino, The Shinkoh 2 Watt are on a planet of there own, even compared to the Shinkoh 1 watt version, its just a little better, no its a lot better. The Allen Bradley 2W is very good, but only after a good run in, Its natural with excellent timbre. But its not the cleanest of resistors. The AudioNote tantalum magnetic 2 Watt is very musical but i find you need to be careful where you put them and must not be over used and rarely use them, the Takman resistors are OK. The New AN tantalum non-magnetic resistors i found disappointing, but only compared to the  Shinkoh 2 Watt or 1 Watt, they are not for me. Vishay bulk/Z foil are incredibly clean and clear but as with most of the newer made resistors just have this clinical and uninvolving sound that leaves me uninterested in listening. In the right spot most resistors can have a place, but the bottom line is the Shinkoh 2 Watt are so good, if you have them already there is nowhere to go. Nothing satisfies ultimately, like a Shinkoh 2 Watt or second best a 1 watt Shinkoh. In a brilliant system they rule. I often use a combination of resistors usually, rarely just one type. Every time i try a new resistor that has just hit the market i am always disappointed so i have given up unless there is a rave review.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 10:55:48 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline AudyIltis

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2019, 05:10:13 AM »
Hi...Shinkoh 2 watt tantalum resistors. Clean clear super resolution very good timbre, not quite as natural as the Allen Bradleys, but they are the best. Allen Bradleys 2 watt. No super resolution here, but these are super natural and rich, They can be little thick and fat with a chocolate coloration until at least a week of running in,  then superb.  But i must the PCB Assembly
 of both these resistors is really good. They are of standard size and are not generating much heat after embedding into PCB.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 11:24:02 PM by AudyIltis »

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2019, 12:45:53 AM »
Hi...Shinkoh 2 watt tantalum resistors. Clean clear super resolution very good timbre, not quite as natural as the Allen Bradleys, but they are the best.Allen Bradleys 2 watt. No super resolution here, but these are super natural and rich, They can be little thick and fat with a chocolate coloration until at least a week of running in,  then superb.
Right on, you have a good ear. I find a combination of the two can be beneficial.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:52:54 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline data

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #92 on: September 16, 2019, 03:44:42 AM »
Just changed my cathode resistors today from Kiwame 10ohm to 1watt 10ohm AN Non Magnetic Tants, not as good as the Shinkoh, but better than the Kiwames.


Sux that popular values of the Shinkohs are nowhere to be had now :(

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #93 on: September 16, 2019, 06:39:30 PM »
Just changed my cathode resistors today from Kiwame 10ohm to 1watt 10ohm AN Non Magnetic Tants, not as good as the Shinkoh, but better than the Kiwames.


Sux that popular values of the Shinkohs are nowhere to be had now :(
Its an unfortunate situation, because the Shinkoh rules. And the gap in wide. Why cant they be copied. Why cant audionote copy them.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 07:51:26 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline data

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #94 on: September 16, 2019, 08:36:02 PM »
Beats me Steve, you would think it not too difficult for someone like AN.

I was wondering who now holds the production design rights for Shinkoh resistors, or those production papers.

Looking for some 36K 2w AB's now, having difficulty finding that value in 2w, damn the scarcity of the better resistors.

Offline data

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2019, 08:10:59 PM »
Cool, found a couple of places I can use available Shinkohs, only 1w ones available though, I guess better than nothing and still will be an improvement, and found AB 36k in Indo'.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2019, 04:27:22 PM »
The Shinkoh 1 Watt is very good, better than any other resistor of any wattage except for the two watt version. I have a 1 watt Shinkoh per channel in one of my amps and i have tried to replace it with a 2 watt alternate make, but they where not even close to the one watt Shinkoh 1 Watt. Its all system dependent as you know.

Offline data

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2019, 06:41:10 PM »
Need some help Steve, do you know the voltage rating for the 2watt Shinkohs?

I can't find that spec anywhere on the net.

Offline data

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2019, 07:47:49 PM »
All good, they should be ok.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Resistor games
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2019, 05:07:54 PM »
Need some help Steve, do you know the voltage rating for the 2watt Shinkohs?

I can't find that spec anywhere on the net.
I do not think they take as much current as the earlier audionote variant because they are non magnetic. When i run a resistor because it sounds great and is to small for the job voltage wise, i use a heat sink or just the case and heat sink paste so the heat dissipates away. That way i can run a 2 Watt in place of a 5 Watt resistor. And of cause that means i can even run the smaller Shinkohs.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 01:41:21 PM by stevenvalve »