Author Topic: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons  (Read 4993 times)

Offline gamve

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2014, 03:30:08 PM »
Earle is a SNA sponsor and is therefore a god, He is beyond questioning by us mere mortals.
Oh sorry, wrong bloody forum, forgot where I was. Who cares what Earle says? As far as I am concerned
his products speak for themselves. They are so good they are always available second hand at hugely discounted
prices. Need I say more?

Offline hedalfa

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2014, 05:46:49 PM »
Your unusual Steve, a lot of people cant hear as you do and relate this to changes made. Yet as you have shared with others the approach can be fostered.

However you can lead a horse to water yet some will never drink :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

I was there with Andy and heard the results of replacing a couple of crummy looking resistors out of his leak, the result was a positive difference that was easy to hear.  :o :o :o :o :o

 '... you need to hear these subtle minute changes in sound, as you slowly replace parts in an ordered controlled fashion until you arrived at a combination that ultimately makes magic'.

Definitely, not everything will work either, its important have a handle on whats happening.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 05:50:18 PM by hedalfa »

Offline Jehuty

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2014, 07:11:47 PM »
I was there with Andy and heard the results of replacing a couple of crummy looking resistors out of his leak, the result was a positive difference that was easy to hear.  :o :o :o :o :o

Tell him to be a bit patient with the Allen Bradley. They need a bit of time but they're worth the wait  :)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2014, 07:41:08 PM »
Here is the interesting thing about listening to a system and then commenting on the quality of different tested components. As you all know I am comparing Cast duelunds against hovland music caps. On my big system its easy, because you can hear a fly landing on the speaker box or even a half deaf audiophile coming through the front door, the smallest change via even a piece of wire is audible. But on the second system consisting of a great sounding set of Quad 57s topped with Linauem omnidirectional tweeters, leak stereo 20 Rebuilt with quality hand picked parts and also armed with great valves, stepped resistor volume control, plus a very good sounding expensive professional pioneer DVD player. Now here is the problem when I change parts cables caps resistors it's very much harder to pick exactly what is really going on, there is a equalization of the playing field, differences are somewhat nullified. The differences are there but can we use this information in a real tangible way. So the question needs to be asked, is any of the results even valid, Could anyone build say, incredible sounding amplifiers or preamps if they did not have a great sounding setup, do you need a real sounding system to actually hear the truth. Well all I can say (with this Quad setup) is that i could build a great sounding amplifier to suit the quad 57s. But I could not make with certainty a universal, magical sounding world class amplifier. If we where to do some blind testing of parts, via this system can we really predict anything representative of the truth. Well my answer is, not much chance.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 09:15:12 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2014, 08:52:11 PM »
but just to clear I never meant MY system, ie that question about 'listen on my system' was meant to have come from you if you follow.
Oh,  my 'My', not your 'My'. Ok.

My system can demonstrate it, but Stevens is reference class.   Should always use a reference system for this kind of thing. IMO
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 10:02:52 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline omodo

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2014, 08:53:21 PM »
would agree with the comments re. Weston amps, some of the worst I have heard, amateur level DIY at best - spend your hard earned money elsewhere

IMHO

Offline zenelectro

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2014, 09:54:47 PM »
Earle is a SNA sponsor and is therefore a god, He is beyond questioning by us mere mortals.
Oh sorry, wrong bloody forum, forgot where I was. Who cares what Earle says? As far as I am concerned
his products speak for themselves. They are so good they are always available second hand at hugely discounted
prices. Need I say more?

I've never had a look inside one or heard one.

So what's he doing wrong - tube amps are not that hard to get right as long as you keep it simple and
use half decent components. From what you are saying here, they aren't even close?

These old Leak amps are a good example, not rocket science, pretty standard circuits and they seem to
sound reasonably good even in stock form.

Z

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2014, 10:10:08 PM »
I've never had a look inside one or heard one.

So what's he doing wrong - tube amps are not that hard to get right as long as you keep it simple and
use half decent components. From what you are saying here, they aren't even close?

These old Leak amps are a good example, not rocket science, pretty standard circuits and they seem to
sound reasonably good even in stock form.

Z
I have a stock leak stereo 20 here, and when standard, nothing special. With the right bits.  Great

Offline zenelectro

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2014, 10:25:32 PM »
I have a stock leak stereo 20 here, and when standard, nothing special. With the right bits.  Great

I think I answered my own question. Just checked out some internal shots of the amps. 


Offline gamve

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2014, 10:26:38 PM »
I have a stock leak stereo 20 here, and when standard, nothing special. With the right bits.  Great

And you know why they mod up so well? These old leak amps had exceptional quality (Iron) transformers.
I have yet to see anyone throw away the output transformers and replace them with something else.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2014, 10:50:13 AM »
Oh,  my 'My', not your 'My'. Ok.
I just re-read my post, and it's clear as mud.   You said my system, but you meant your system.   Whose on 1st?  :P

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg</a>
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline terry j

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2014, 10:58:19 AM »
did you mean my post (mine) or my post (yours)? :D :D

glad you brought it up again, when you first read it (and thought I was talking about my system) dunno HOW it would have come across! At the very least there would have been raised eyebrows over the idiocy of how I came across.

Timeless classic in any case. I must remember to show my daughters, in case the facebook generation have lost all touch with their history. Hopefully they will know of it, will hang my head in shame as a parent if they do not.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2014, 05:31:39 PM »
Oscar(6yo) and I watched it 3 times in a row this morning, we couldn't stop laughing.
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2014, 10:09:55 PM »
I have always had confidence in my own hearing, and never thought for one second, I am imagining an improvement and therefore need to blind test the result. Blind tests are a waste of time, Why, one's individual memory of what did it sound like 10 minutes ago.
Just to play devils advocate for a second.  Why do we think our auditory memory works sighted, but doesnt work so well blinded?

Why is it, that when the blindfold goes on, that our ability to reliably discern (and remember) the subtle nuances is impacted?

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you, but these questions do get thrown at us.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:28:26 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2014, 10:39:59 PM »
Just to play devils advocate for a second.  Why do we think our auditory memory works sighted, but doesnt work so well blinded?

Why is it, that when the blindfold goes on, that our ability to reliably discern (and remember) the subtle nuances is impacted?

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you, but these questions do get thrown at us.

The blind approach helps some people as it will narrow their attention. Listening isn't as passive act.  For those that have either a particular ability, lots of listening practice or a combination of both it may not be needed.  For many people it could help, yet many doesn't equal everyone.


« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:42:10 PM by hedalfa »

Offline guru

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2014, 10:45:08 PM »
Having participated in Terry's and Aslan's ABX test some years ago, the introduction of blind testing is akin to the physical symptom's of sitting an exam. Doubt, performance anxiety, ability to understand and process information. Initially I was processing the differences as very marginal at best and the sense of surprise on my behalf was seriously concerning as I thought I should be able to hear a greater degree of difference and there was a moment where I contemplated " could this be really the facts".
Then you actually start to listen not to the content but to the shading, the nuance, the decay, the lightness, the interplay and then the differences are there and the signatures of A, B and the switch becomes repeatable and definite and no longer marginal.
Definitely worthwhile and instructive, like going to the edge and looking over.
Cheers and thanks for having me around.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: When A Tree Falls - Cap comparisons
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2014, 10:49:23 PM »
Good post Guru,  I reckon pressure and stress definitely plays a role.
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.