Author Topic: Copper versus silver what to use  (Read 12188 times)

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 06:52:28 PM »
Hi Steven,

Do youe thoughts still hold true on silver after now hearing the gZero 6 interconnects with silver plugs?   

Also regarding % silver content in different solder, you prefer using the solders that have least amount of silver?
The plugs on the cables I listened too had the Harmony®Plug I believe, not silver, not copper, look here

 http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/harmony-plug/

I use WBT solder, with 4% silver. Is there better, probably but what does better really mean, different . I results are excellent.  I do not have the time to try them all. 

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 07:02:06 PM »
Probably does, but looks like it has sliver plugs?


I have decided to get this cable with straight copper plugs, because copper has the right fundamental's I need, And its easy to tune around. don't get carried away with the attributes of silver, because silvers best characteristics are not what's important.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 02:18:56 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozmillsy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Liked: 245
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2014, 01:47:59 PM »
The plugs on the cables I listened too had the Harmony®Plug I believe, not silver, not copper, look here

 http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/harmony-plug/
The plugs on the cable you listened to (ie: gZero6) are "Pure Harmony" version,   the pure harmony is "pure silver".   I spoke to Craig about this at length.

Quote
Pure®Harmony (short for Pure Silver Harmony Phono/RCA Plug)… GROUND and SIGNAL pins are PURE SILVER…

Apparently there is greater transparency, without losing body or texture (which is what we typically expect from silver components).   These plugs don't sound like Silver normally sounds, apparently.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 01:58:52 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline ochremoon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Liked: 8
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2014, 08:17:39 PM »
I use WBT solder, with 4% silver. Is there better, probably but what does better really mean, different . I results are excellent.  I do not have the time to try them all.

I use that solder too and find it very good, but the flux is messier than most. Do you bother to clean the flux off or leave it?

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 10:29:41 PM »
 If there is residue I clean it of with alcohol.

Offline zenelectro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 786
  • Liked: 149
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2014, 07:13:29 PM »
The plugs on the cable you listened to (ie: gZero6) are "Pure Harmony" version,   the pure harmony is "pure silver".   I spoke to Craig about this at length.

Apparently there is greater transparency, without losing body or texture (which is what we typically expect from silver components).   These plugs don't sound like Silver normally sounds, apparently.

AFACT, silver gets a bad name from all the silver -plated- cabling / products around.

I'm personally not convinced pure silver is a bad thing. I think it is just -very- neutral.

Maybe neutral doesn't float boats in this neck of the river system, but for recording and monitoring I prefer it over various interpretations
of what is supposed to be rich, full bodied etc etc.

I'm currently looking to make some balanced microphone cables for recording and there are a lot less options around for balanced, even less
for shielded. Looks like might going back to cable making.

I'm all ears if anyone can suggest reasonably priced balanced cables that sound great.  They will probably have to be shielded, as some mics (Ribbon) only
OP mV.



Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2014, 07:24:28 PM »
I am using a pair of 0.75m Vovox Sonorus XLR cables between xo and pre. I dont know how well they fair with other stuff out there but you are welcome to borrow them if you are interested Terry.

Just let me know :)

Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2014, 07:29:19 PM »
I had always thought silver was an 'audiophile' world thing?

Im pretty sure all of the 'pa' mic/instrument wire i've played with has been shielded copper?

Then again, I know nothing!  :'(

Offline ozmillsy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Liked: 245
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2014, 07:42:01 PM »
Maybe neutral doesn't float boats in this neck of the river system, but for recording and monitoring I prefer it over various interpretations
of what is supposed to be rich, full bodied etc etc.
Trying to define neutral is a grey area.

Cold, clinical, artificial, micro detailed, anemic, washed out,  are all very un-natural attributes.   These are characteristics often attributed to silver,  and are just another form of colouration in my opinion.

If it 'sounds' natural, then it sounds neutral.   Problem is, it's subjective.  [Shrugs]

It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2014, 07:47:43 PM »
I love listening to music through a Kondo Ongaku. Its made of nearly all silver!  :'(

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 08:17:57 PM »
I love listening to music through a Kondo Ongaku. Its made of nearly all silver! 
I have heard this amp and its not bad, but all silver amps sound, well like there is silver in there, what do you think would happen if you compered it to my 250-245 amp and you thought mine sounded better. My point is i have no silver in my amp, are you saying with silver my 250-245 amp will be better. If silver is better why does my amp go backward soundwise as I install it. What people think is great is only relative to what they have heard.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:24:48 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2014, 08:35:40 PM »
That's why I'm scared to listen to your setup Steven!  I can't afford rocking horse shxt tubes.   I do hope I have the opportunity to listen to your masterpiece one day though.

But for now, ignorance is bliss?!   ;D

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1149
  • Liked: 63
  • Caring and sharing
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2014, 09:32:35 PM »
Ag gets the thumbs up from me for what it's worth.  I have used it for > 25 years before it became popular and used to source it from Johnson Matthey.  Soft annealed is easier to use.  Audio synthesis made it popular back in the UK and is still cheap for what it brings to the party.  Whilst they might not be the best out there they are not over hyped, over priced or oversold.

If your system requires a little pepping up then they can bring some life to a dead sounding 'off' system; in a well tuned system your mileage my vary.

V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1149
  • Liked: 63
  • Caring and sharing
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 09:36:10 PM »
Quote
What people think is great is only relative to what they have heard.
;)

Here here Steveo, hence why so many boozo's rave on about something which is really pants :-[[/font]
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline brenden

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Liked: 52
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2014, 10:28:09 PM »
 Extra care needs to be taken with the implementation of silver  to get the best out of it .I use  soft annealed silver in silk and it sounds great, but only after much r&d.
       

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2014, 12:23:59 AM »

If your system requires a little pepping up then they can bring some life to a dead sounding 'off' system; in a well tuned system your mileage my vary.

V
I agree, right on

Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2014, 12:50:53 AM »
One man's dead sounding 'off' system is another man's well tuned system.

One man's well tuned system is another man's dead sounding 'off' system.

Just saying  :P

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2014, 01:13:24 AM »
Extra care needs to be taken with the implementation of silver  to get the best out of it .I use  soft annealed silver in silk and it sounds great, but only after much r&d.
     
In my earlier HIFI days I had no dislike or attitude for silver, copper, gold, what ever. I believed the hype like the next man, I craved for some silver because it just had to be better, everyone said so, come to think of it they where mainly the importers, but as I acquired (borrowed) the silver interconnects and listened, all the HIFI goodies where there, Cleaner, clearer, more detail, smooth, extended, at first listen I thought WoW this is amazing, but it soon became apparent that something was missing, what makes instruments sound real. I then realized
 i had to disown opinion and just listen to what the Cello said. I have taken silver interconnects to at least 15 audiophile's systems and they all within 10 minutes demanded it be removed.
There is only one thing to do, I have to listen to your type of silver cable, but first you need to listen to the new gZero6. I think they are tremendous, that will be a good yardstick for further discussions. Ps I have also heard gold and I found that to be analytical and heartless. They where gold cartridge's like the A.J. van den Hul grasshopper gold but who knows if that was the gold, or the cartridge.

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Liked: 268
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2014, 01:21:43 AM »
One man's dead sounding 'off' system is another man's well tuned system.

One man's well tuned system is another man's dead sounding 'off' system.

Just saying  :P
There should not be flavour's, the thing that matters is does your system sound like that Cello or Violin, guitar, or whatever you just heard live, But it is true, some do not care if it sounds like real music. I do, because real is why we are here.

Offline Tuyen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Liked: 211
Re: Copper versus silver what to use
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2014, 02:48:07 AM »
I know what you mean Steven.

Sorry, was just being a little cheeky.

I look forward to hearing the gZero6 interconnects on Mario's system.   :D