Author Topic: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?  (Read 8012 times)

Offline Tuyen

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Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« on: April 10, 2014, 09:08:30 AM »
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet?page=1&scrollTo=134293

I have made a discovery and am keeping it under my hat for the time being until I have fully evaluated what I believe to be the absolute ultimate E88CC, that is not an E88CC, on the planet! It's a valve / tube that has the same properties as an E88CC BUT provides:

Superior transconductance
lower plate resistance
Higher voltage gain (42 versus 33)
More linear
Reduced voltage requirements

It has totally blown my ears away the past few days (big style) and I am not going to say any more until I have fully evaluated it in three or four more applications.

Read more: http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet?page=1&scrollTo=134293#ixzz2yQvidbLt

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 09:09:41 AM »
After a LOT of listening in different amps I can confirm my initial "gut" findings....... these are the best sounding E88CC / 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88 on planet Earth, bar none.

They are a bitch, for current 9 pin E88CC / 6DJ8 owners looking for a "plug and play" version, not being a pin for pin compatible drop in for the 6DJ8, but very well suited to any future / "new" design that can build from the ground up with these in mind.

You can make your own 7963 TO 6922 pinout conversion with the information already provided here with some funky wiring and, my god, it's worth the effort!!!

They don't "look" pretty but, Jesus H Christ........ they are mind blowing!

I'm not into religion but have never said "JEEEESUS Christ!!" so many times in one day!

Here are a couple of photos of the funky angle 7963 to E88CC / 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88 / 6N23P (etc.) tweak.....






Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 09:11:15 AM »
Anyone here tried them before?

If so, in your application, how do they sound in comparison to the e88cc/6dj8/6922 you use?

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 04:36:51 PM »
The question to be asked is, where are they going to be used,  I remember using some world famous tubes, STC / 3A167M, as a DAC output driver, they are like a Western Electric 205D / 205F. In almost every HIFI way they where better that the 6DJ8, dynamics, drive, you name it, In 80 percent of the performance this tube was just amazing. But in a few ways the E88CC was better, but they where the ways that mattered to me, a relaxed delicate natural beauty, music just appeared in front of you, so unforced, and so involving. My wifes brother is a Guitar teacher, i often listen to him playing classical via this best acoustic guitar, when I replayed it on my system, guess what, the E88CCs where by far the closest to that sound, all the amazing unforced relaxed delicate after tones where there, the warmth, there was a kind of rightness, it sounded so real, so natural. The bottom line, the E88CC just sounded more like real live unamplified music. I must stress when I say the BEST 6DJ8s, i mean the BEST, like the Siemens grey plate 1950 CCA,  Amperex Phillips Heerlen Holland E88CCs 1955+ Amperex USA 1960s. CD players in particular need what the E88CC has to offer, the Cds weakness, are the 6DJ8s strengths. Will these 7963 tubes in the long run be the new reference, I hope so. It just depends on your preference.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 09:31:01 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 06:46:03 PM »
I always love reading your experiences Steven.  I find them very insightful.

I have a pair of these submarine tubes coming. I will try them on a friend's kdac (which I sort of have on permanent loan).  Will report back.

Offline Davey Willo

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 09:08:47 AM »
Tuyen

I'd be very interested in coming and having a listen to see if there any positive differences once in the KD, I was impressed with what that KD did for my sound so any improvements would be very interesting indeed.

May I be so bold as to request an invite once installed please mate :)

Cheers man
Dave W.


Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 01:42:20 PM »
I must stress when I say the BEST 6DJ8s, i mean the BEST, like the Siemens grey plate 1950 CCA,  Amperex Phillips Heerlen Holland E88CCs 1955+ Amperex USA 1960s.
Hang on,  aren't Telefunkens the "best" ?    :P  :P  :P   [jk]
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2014, 01:53:26 PM »
I have a pair of these submarine tubes coming. I will try them on a friend's kdac (which I sort of have on permanent loan).  Will report back.
Very interested to hear about your findings.
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2014, 02:45:56 PM »
Hang on,  aren't Telefunkens the "best" ?    :P  :P  :P   [jk]

You need silver (read: quality silver) everywhere to get the best out of Telefunken (or any other German tubes), really! Well, that's what my friend told me, he's a massive fan of AN, silver and German tubes. I have yet to hear his system but I respect his opinion.

Cheers,
William
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2014, 04:06:31 PM »
You need silver (read: quality silver) everywhere to get the best out of Telefunken (or any other German tubes), really! Well, that's what my friend told me, he's a massive fan of AN, silver and German tubes. I have yet to hear his system but I respect his opinion.

Cheers,
William

The Telefunkens I have tried are great sounding valves, very clear and clean but not in an artificial way. There strengths arenít always a benefit highlighting system weaknesses and if the system is a bit towards thin rather than full  bodied they may not be appreciated. Sometimes rich and full isnít what you want, and a combination of these paired with richer more full bodied sounding valves can be a good combination. Re the silver, interesting, maybe something about the clarity here, the telefunkens might exaggerate dullness somewhere the system, now hearing something you werenít hearing before. Silver thatís I have heard is not blameless yet it usually is clear and open not dull or resolving.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 04:08:04 PM by hedalfa »

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 05:31:51 PM »
Yes, the Telefunken E88CC interesting. In all my best systems over 40 years, I almost never used Telefunken valves in the final finished mix, even though I had plenty of them. Once an E88CC worked its way into my C.A.T preamp but only in one certain position, it sounded superb. Sweet, pretty, clean, clear, airy, are things that come to mind. I will only usually use them (amongst other brands) for the final tune, but there was nearly always something better for the various final spots. I tried telefunkens recently in my Leak stereo 20 (EL84) and to my surprized they there superb, Just goes to show there is no absolute. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 05:34:10 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 06:13:09 PM »
The question to be asked is, where are they going to be used,  I remember using some world famous tubes, STC / 3A167M, as a DAC output driver, they are like a Western Electric 205D / 205F. In almost every HIFI way they where better that the 6DJ8, dynamics, drive, you name it, In 80 percent of the performance this tube was just amazing.

You still have a pair of my 3A167M's over there somewhere... they're yours!  ;) ;) There was a time when you had us all convinced if we didn't run these tubes, tomorrow would not come!  :D :D

But tomorrow came and we all realized that they are just a flavor like any other tube - more importantly they are a very specific tube for very specific applications. The WE equivalent
is WE 437A (not 205D which is not really related). The other tube which is very similar is the Russian Reflektor 6C45Pi (as Brian uses in his DAC). They can actually sound pretty good
if choke loaded (instead of Resistor).
 
These 3 tubes share 1 thing -  very high trans conductance (gm), pretty much highest gm of any tubes ever made which means a/ Very low noise b/ High OP drive (for their size).
As we all discovered, with the high trans conductance comes a sound which tends toward SS than tube because in fact, with this super high gm it is starting to behave more like a SS device.

Z

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 06:25:06 PM »
Looking at 7963 data sheet it looks like a bit of a 'super charged' 6DJ8. Higher gm and also higher gain than 6DJ8.

Also pretty cheap - that's a bonus in hi end!

Z



Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 06:58:07 PM »
My bets are that this miniature submarine tube sounds even more like a SS device  ;D

will turn an acoustic violin into an electric one? lol
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 07:04:33 PM by Tuyen »

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 08:25:30 PM »
The WE equivalent
is WE 437A (not 205D which is not really related). Z
They are repeater tubes. People can relate to a 205D, not many know a Western Electric 437A. I believe a 3A/167M is the English version of the WE 437A.

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 09:40:56 PM »
Tuyen

I'd be very interested in coming and having a listen to see if there any positive differences once in the KD, I was impressed with what that KD did for my sound so any improvements would be very interesting indeed.

May I be so bold as to request an invite once installed please mate :)

Cheers man
Dave W.

Not a prob Dave. Will let you know when they are here and running.  Actually give you a chance to hear the system with the CSLS preamp too.  Much better!

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 07:04:24 AM »
You need silver (read: quality silver) everywhere to get the best out of Telefunken (or any other German tubes), really! Well, that's what my friend told me, he's a massive fan of AN, silver and German tubes. I have yet to hear his system but I respect his opinion.
Let me know what you think after you hear it (his system). 

I'm open to any possibility.      AN + quality silver + telefunkens = triple bunger.     

I would have thought it's bordering on too much of a good thing,  clean and clear 3 ways.    But who knows,  nothing surprises me in audio anymore.  :)
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2014, 01:06:32 PM »
A pair have arrived.

Will fit into mate's kdac this weekend and see what they can do.

They are so cute!


Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 01:54:24 PM »
Watt voltage do they need, are they around 60volt  to 100 volt

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Sylvania 7963 The best E88CC / 6922 on the planet?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 06:08:37 PM »
yeah 100v (I think).

Link to datasheet (note the pdf has collection of datasheets for the various sylvania tubes.  The ones I have here are 7963)
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Sylvania/Sylvania-SSFGT.pdf