Author Topic: Power Cables  (Read 18562 times)

Offline fallsaudio

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Power Cables
« on: September 21, 2014, 02:59:17 PM »
 ;D
                            Well after many many month of stuffing with types of wire , cable , plug and sockets type I think I have found the right balance. I have come up with a CYRO ( two types)  mains plug with a RED copper and  IEC connector. The cable there are many types that look the same but do not sound the same . I have had positive fed back on the cable I have put out in the field for testing. There are three different type I have made , All sound great and all have different flavors . Each cable use in a different position will give a different result.
                             Most of us have discovered that a peace of wire is not just a peace of wire , I will let you all know what the final outcome is from the final testing goes  :D
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 03:02:02 PM by fallsaudio »

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 04:17:57 PM »
Keen to know more when ready Paul :)

Will you be sharing the specifics for us to make our own, or will you be selling these cables?

Offline terry j

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 05:24:51 PM »

                             Most of us have discovered that a peace of wire is not just a peace of wire

And for those that have not, at least stating it as nicely as you have should ensure peace between the camps  :D

Offline Gee Emm

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 11:08:34 AM »
Interesting topic.

My experiences about peaces (sic) of wire is that different outcomes are more about the total application of the wire in situ

a 3-core power cable is the combination of many things eg:
Primarily, the cross-section, individual insulators/shielding, each core's proximity to each other, twisting, the outer insulators/shielding, the proximity of the cable to other things that may affect it eg RFI

IME when & if cables sound different, it is for the above reasons more than anything else. YMMV.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 12:26:48 PM »
If a piece of wire (or an assembled cable) has the same (or similar) influence on the sound of different systems, then the differences are likely to be more than environmental.

This is another reason why I like to crosscheck the cables I make on other systems, especially systems that I am familiar with.
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline onthebeach

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 01:12:40 PM »
Paul Baker recently gave me the opportunity to trial three of his new Power cables in my system.

I had a chance to trial them in a variety of configurations over a few days.
At the time of testing I didnít know the names or prices of the cables. I have since learned that I listened to:

1. The Marlin
2. The Maudin
3. The Bermuda.

Iíve rated them in that order as well.

I compared the three cables to each other as well as a stock $10 cord.

1.   I found The Marlin to be the best here. The music sounded beautiful and open in comparison to the stock cord. The music was more defined, refined and easier to listen to.

2.   I thought the Maudin was about 80% as good as the Marlin. Much better than the stock cable and with the same attributes as the Marlin but just not quite as good. It was sweet though and certainly wasnít doing anything wrong.

3.   The Bermuda didnít work for me on my system at all. I really didnít like it. It was dry and etched and lacked any beauty or openness. In fact I probably preferred the stock cord which in itself sounded boring flat and lifeless in comparison to the Marlin and the Maudin.

I managed to listen to the cables in a variety of configurations.

a. On a Wadia transport to a Thor power conditioner.
Wadia was connected to a Kdac via i2s. Amplification was an Audio Research ref 5 pre and ref 110 amp.

b. On the Thor to wall mains. Same components as above. All components connected to the Thor.

c. On a Bryston cd player which was connected to an Integra processor. Amplification was an Arcam 888 - 7 channel power amp

d.From Marios EL34 amp to Thor. Source was the Wadia and Kdac.

e. From Marios EL34 amp to wall mains with Wadia and Kdac connected to Thor.

I pretty much got similar results on all configurations but the clearest and bestest result was in the last configuration. The Audio research amps sounded better connected to the Thor but Marios EL34 amp was clearly better when connected directly to the mains.

Now for the disclaimer. Ė Some limiting factors need to be taken into account here.
1.The cables were not given any time to bed in or settle for each changing. This was due to time restrains and the want of a quicker A-B comparison.
2.I was the only person listening.
3.Cables were run in for around 400 hours before testing but additional run in time could seriously change my findings, esp on the Bermuda.
4.There was no group or blind testing done so illusion and audio psychosis needs to be well and truly factored in.
5.Speakers on all testing were my pair of VAF i93MK2's. My system has its limitations obviously and these need to be taken into account.
6. What I like in audio playback is often very different to other peoples ideas of quality playback so it would not suprise me in the slightest if the masses find they have contrasting results.

I have since purchased the Marlin and the Maudin as I was very impressed with what they bought to the table for me but I am sending the Bermuda back. I have also bought another two Marlins.

There are no doubt loads of other limiting factors at work here and when I think of them I'll add them to this list. I treated this exercise as a bit of fun and a learning experience. The end result for me will be a lighter wallet but a better sounding system. Value for money for me here is a 10/10. These are very affordable upgrades IMHO.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 01:17:28 PM by onthebeach »

Offline fallsaudio

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 12:52:20 PM »
To All .
           After reading the debate on SNA about Falls Audio power cables , I want it known that I have been working for quite a while on finding suitable plugs which comply with Australia standards. I have found a couple of plugs but I am unable to fit the large cable and sheath through the back of the plug as the two add up to being about 13.5 mm with the heat shrink . The next point to bring out is the test one I have made with out the sheath sounds quite good but has lost some of its magic.   I will inform all when I have found the plugs ;).

Offline gamve

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 01:34:21 PM »
Just had a quick look at the Snotty Nosed Arsholes fourum and yep, nothing has changed there.
It is the same old 'holes defending the sponsors interest as usual. These guys are prolly the same arshoels that told
us we need toxic and dangerous mercury vapour fluorescent light globes at $10 each as a 79 cent globe wastes power.
The Australian Standards are a worldwide joke, written by minority lobby groups with vested financial interests.
God forbid using non compliant plugs made in China. Do you really think Clipsal make their plugs in Australia...Get real.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 01:36:10 PM by gamve »

Offline terry j

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 02:06:16 PM »
just justifies selling illegal power cords then.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 02:36:00 PM »
just justifies selling illegal power cords then.
Just about all DIY stuff is illegal. 

Offline terry j

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 03:19:23 PM »
maybe.

is this a commercial power cord?

if so, what is the relevance?

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 05:42:08 PM »
maybe.

is this a commercial power cord?

if so, what is the relevance?
This is true, because it is commercial not DIY, Paul needs to make it legal.... If his cable causes a fire he may be sued. I think solid core wire (outside of the inner wall) is illegal in Australia.  Almost all commercial power cords made via the big players then brought to Australia are illegal. This is one reason audio connection stopped selling power cords. Anyone know, my knowledge on this matter is near nil.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 05:54:23 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 05:44:31 PM »
Hey Paul, finding Aussie plugs that take thick cables is a challenge.   I do like Furutech plugs, but they are bloody expensive.

http://www.fallsaudio.com.au/shop
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2014, 07:50:01 PM »
This is true, because it is commercial not DIY, Paul needs to make it legal.... If his cable causes a fire he may be sued. I think solid core wire (outside of the inner wall) is illegal in Australia.  Almost all commercial power cords made via the big players then brought to Australia are illegal. This is one reason audio connection stopped selling power cords. Anyone know, my knowledge on this matter is near nil.

Very unlikely  a fire would happen they are well terminated. Cant say that about some other cables where the plug worked loose.

One of the issues is the Australian standard on insulation on the earth prong, many other countries don't have this standard. Paul Baker is investigating though he tried another legal plug recently and it wasn't as good as the current combination.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2014, 07:51:25 PM »
Hey Paul, finding Aussie plugs that take thick cables is a challenge.   I do like Furutech plugs, but they are bloody expensive.

http://www.fallsaudio.com.au/shop

That's the whole point Paul Baker was trying to give people access to cables at affordable prices that give good results.

Offline brenden

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2014, 09:23:37 PM »
Very unlikely  a fire would happen they are well terminated. Cant say that about some other cables where the plug worked loose.

One of the issues is the Australian standard on insulation on the earth prong, many other countries don't have this standard. Paul Baker is investigating though he tried another legal plug recently and it wasn't as good as the current combination.


   I haven't posted on this issue yet ,and while I really like the quality of the MS audio plugs on Ebay from Sunnytoto  ,they are unfortunately missing the insulation on the live prongs  to make them legal .I had considered sending him an email to alert him to this oversight ,because they are doing a great job selling parts for very good prices that can benefit us all .I am sure this oversight could be rectified fairly easily and to gain Austraian approval for their plugs  .

   This issue of the insulation is very dear to me ,as my then  baby son was very close to being electrocuted  about 5 years ago by  uninsulated   pins on a 240v plug to the television .

   On this occasion his life was saved by an Earth-leakage Circuit Breakers (ELCB). He screamed and all the power went out after he had dislodged the plug and touched the live  prongs with his tiny fingers .If the place I was living in didn't have an ELCB ,I have no doubt he would not be with us today .Electrical safety is of paramount importance to DIY guys ,both for your own safety ,your familys safety ,and also the safety of people who may end up with equipment that has been built or modified by any of us .Sometimes its worth doing a safety audit on gear you are working on ,or getting another mate with experience to do this too .
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 10:30:24 PM by brenden »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2014, 10:51:01 PM »
Well said Brenden.

Spending more on Furutechs (while expensive compared to other plugs) is relatively fark all, compared to the idiot money we spend on other audio stuff.   Reality check people.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 11:09:52 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2014, 10:56:57 PM »

   I haven't posted on this issue yet ,and while I really like the quality of the MS audio plugs on Ebay from Sunnytoto  ,they are unfortunately missing the insulation on the live prongs  to make them legal .I had considered sending him an email to alert him to this oversight ,because they are doing a great job selling parts for very good prices that can benefit us all .I am sure this oversight could be rectified fairly easily and to gain Austraian approval for their plugs  .

   This issue of the insulation is very dear to me ,as my then  baby son was very close to being electrocuted  about 5 years ago by  uninsulated   pins on a 240v plug to the television .

   On this occasion his life was saved by an Earth-leakage Circuit Breakers (ELCB). He screamed and all the power went out after he had dislodged the plug and touched the live  prongs with his tiny fingers .If the place I was living in didn't have an ELCB ,I have no doubt he would not be with us today .Electrical safety is of paramount importance to DIY guys ,both for your own safety ,your familys safety ,and also the safety of people who may end up with equipment that has been built or modified by any of us .Sometimes its worth doing a safety audit on gear you are working on ,or getting another mate with experience to do this too .

There are people on this site that have no fuses in their equipment because of the effect on the sound. Some people like Pat Turner want to add protection circuits to all the amps they make. Yep he has had plenty of amps catch fire in for service, I have seen some.  Id be looking at amps if I was concerned about safety not just cables. Theres a lot of dimensions to this issue.  On safety grounds we would be better off with 100 or 120v instead of 240volts, those pushing Australian standards could consider this as well.

Yep safety audit on everything not just the cables. If your just focusing on just them you may be over looking stuff.


« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 11:03:50 PM by hedalfa »

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2014, 12:16:14 AM »
;D
                            Well after many many month of stuffing with types of wire , cable , plug and sockets type I think I have found the right balance. I have come up with a CYRO ( two types)  mains plug with a RED copper and  IEC connector. The cable there are many types that look the same but do not sound the same . I have had positive fed back on the cable I have put out in the field for testing. There are three different type I have made , All sound great and all have different flavors . Each cable use in a different position will give a different result.
                             Most of us have discovered that a peace of wire is not just a peace of wire , I will let you all know what the final outcome is from the final testing goes  :D
Copper, excellent....this is what I needed to know.

Very well priced also.

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2014, 12:17:47 AM »
;D
                            Well after many many month of stuffing with types of wire , cable , plug and sockets type I think I have found the right balance. I have come up with a CYRO ( two types)  mains plug with a RED copper and  IEC connector. The cable there are many types that look the same but do not sound the same . I have had positive fed back on the cable I have put out in the field for testing. There are three different type I have made , All sound great and all have different flavors . Each cable use in a different position will give a different result.
                             Most of us have discovered that a peace of wire is not just a peace of wire , I will let you all know what the final outcome is from the final testing goes  :D
Copper, excellent....this is what I needed to know.

Very well priced also.