Author Topic: Power Cables  (Read 19294 times)

Offline Gee Emm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Liked: 1
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2014, 10:57:49 AM »
The Australian Standards are a worldwide joke, written by minority lobby groups with vested financial interests.
God forbid using non compliant plugs made in China. Do you really think Clipsal make their plugs in Australia...Get real.

Interesting rant gamve

Have you actually been involved in applying for any products to be 3rd party approved to Appendix B of ASNZS-4417.2, ASNZS-3100 etc...

Based on your rant, I presume not.

I have, and electrical safety standards exist for a reason.

They may get in your way, but they have also probably also stopped your house burning down, and stopped you from dying from electrocution.


Offline hedalfa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Liked: 327
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2014, 12:14:17 PM »
Interesting rant gamve

Have you actually been involved in applying for any products to be 3rd party approved to Appendix B of ASNZS-4417.2, ASNZS-3100 etc...

Based on your rant, I presume not.

I have, and electrical safety standards exist for a reason.

They may get in your way, but they have also probably also stopped your house burning down, and stopped you from dying from electrocution.


Quote
probably also stopped your house burning down, and stopped you from dying from electrocution.

Gee Emm

As you seem to know, please explain how??

Offline gamve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • Liked: 210
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2014, 12:31:15 PM »
Interesting rant gamve

Have you actually been involved in applying for any products to be 3rd party approved to Appendix B of ASNZS-4417.2, ASNZS-3100 etc...

Based on your rant, I presume not.

I have, and electrical safety standards exist for a reason.

They may get in your way, but they have also probably also stopped your house burning down, and stopped you from dying from electrocution.

No I have have not been involved with manufacturing electrical goods that need inspecting by a standards authority. I do however have a hefty bill
I have to pay each and every year for inspection of all our electrical workshop and office equipment. In the five or so years that we have been doing
this safety audit our tech has found a couple of serious issues.  Only one being a potential lethal issue a faulty earth leakage protection device. I agree
that safety is the most important home/workplace issue but I also believe we need to be protected from the parasites that have jumped on the safety
bandwagon and plague business and government with their incessant and unnecessary propaganda.  As a side note, we have never had an issue with
power cords and ours get dragged across work-sites, workshop concrete floors and generally abused to hell.

My question is that we are looking at home built power cables that will be handled gently/lovingly, and used very carefully (no bending or coiling please)
in your household application. The cables should be carefully constructed (no we don't want to electrocute ourselves and some of us are not morons) and I
suspect built to a very high standard that makes the Australian Standard that allows cheap sh!t Approved Chinese cables to be sold at every hardware shop a bloody joke.
Have you not seen the recall rates on all this so called AS Approved Garbage. The standards mean next to nothing and obviously do not guarantee user safety
These standards are the result of safety industry lobby groups gone mad. I wonder when certification of the office coffee cup will start.
Iwanna turn that -2 into a -102
 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 12:35:01 PM by gamve »

Offline Gee Emm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Liked: 1
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2014, 02:12:58 PM »
No I have have not been involved with manufacturing electrical goods that need inspecting by a standards authority. I do however have a hefty bill
I have to pay each and every year for inspection of all our electrical workshop and office equipment. In the five or so years that we have been doing
this safety audit our tech has found a couple of serious issues.  Only one being a potential lethal issue a faulty earth leakage protection device. I agree
that safety is the most important home/workplace issue but I also believe we need to be protected from the parasites that have jumped on the safety
bandwagon and plague business and government with their incessant and unnecessary propaganda.  As a side note, we have never had an issue with
power cords and ours get dragged across work-sites, workshop concrete floors and generally abused to hell.

My question is that we are looking at home built power cables that will be handled gently/lovingly, and used very carefully (no bending or coiling please)
in your household application. The cables should be carefully constructed (no we don't want to electrocute ourselves and some of us are not morons) and I
suspect built to a very high standard that makes the Australian Standard that allows cheap sh!t Approved Chinese cables to be sold at every hardware shop a bloody joke.
Have you not seen the recall rates on all this so called AS Approved Garbage. The standards mean next to nothing and obviously do not guarantee user safety
These standards are the result of safety industry lobby groups gone mad. I wonder when certification of the office coffee cup will start.
Iwanna turn that -2 into a -102

hi gamve

I feel your pain, as the company I work for has to deal with similar problems.
We perform all our electrical plant & equipment testing in-house, which greatly reduces our cost to comply with electrical safety requirements.

The issue of safety recalls for most goods has IMO always been that the marketplace has to identify the failure to comply, rather than the manufacturer/importer/distributor ensure all shipments of goods are 'up to spec' before distribution.

Also, in many instances, once the first batch is approved, subsequent batches don't comply, and possibly were never intended to.
Even when companies get caught, there is insufficient penalty to them IMO.

In my view, this is not the fault of any standard, rather the lack of enforcement to the required standard. Particularly where safety is concerned.

Babies die in nonconforming cots, children choke on unsafe toys, houses burn down because of unsafe electrical products, people die unecessarily.

But not as many as years gone by. This is in some way due to better safety standards.

IMV, we need 'em. Coz unscrupulous people would do even more untold damage to faceless people, ie the public.

Also, unfortunately, sometimes Joe Public also needs to be protected from himself.

Never underestimate how much damage an idiot can do, nor an unscrupulous person.

Offline zenelectro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
  • Liked: 151
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2014, 07:18:16 PM »
This is true, because it is commercial not DIY, Paul needs to make it legal.... If his cable causes a fire he may be sued. I think solid core wire (outside of the inner wall) is illegal in Australia.  Almost all commercial power cords made via the big players then brought to Australia are illegal. This is one reason audio connection stopped selling power cords. Anyone know, my knowledge on this matter is near nil.

It's an interesting topic as invariably  a lot of us designers / builders can fall prey to some sort of standards compliance.

AS/NZS 3191:2008 covers electric flexible cords and states that no individual wire shall exceed a diameter of 0.31mm

However it will depend on what the cable is actually sold as / what it's intended use is.

One -possible- way to get around this is to specify for permanent installation use only. You can't control if your customers
are using your products contrary to design intent.  :)

Otherwise start looking for small conductor cable that sounds good.

Do you run as a Pty Ltd or Sole Trader. As a Sole trader liability is unlimited - ouch!  :o

I knew I was paying all those extra damn Pty Ltd accounting / insurance /yada yada fees for a reason!   

Z

Offline fallsaudio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Liked: 43
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2014, 07:35:47 PM »
Hello to All ,
                    Please lets stop mud slinging . I have said her now twice here  and on SNA that the plug will be replaced with plugs that comply.  There is only a hand full of these cables out there and  I have lost enough sleep over this now , I may have found a plug for AU but its is brass pines I will try and get some tomorrow to try out . I am still working on copper ones but I don't think there is solid copper as it is soft and will bend with not much pressure . I think its going to end up being copper , gold or rhodium plated over brass or steel. Lets just wait and see.
                                           Now lets all chill out sit back and enjoy owe systems ;D

Offline omodo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
  • Liked: 104
  • Green tinted glow
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2014, 10:08:03 PM »
that's a good point, you should at the very least be operating under a company structure that limits your personal liability, you don't want to end up in the position of losing everything you have worked for/towards over a silly power cable. ..

Offline pete_mac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Liked: 3
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2014, 10:52:42 PM »
Pete mac and skippy  father and son in real life nothing better to do dik heads

No, we've got plenty to do thanks Mario. Thank you for your concern. ;)

My first post in over two years of membership... Shame it had to be in response to your post.

If questioning the legality of the cables and the actual conductor material of the fake Oyaide plugs (which are a brass substrate with a gold, copper, rhodium or nickel plating) makes us dickheads, then so be it. I've been called worse by much more influential people than your good self.

I'm glad to see that some members here have got their heads screwed on correctly - some excellent posts in this thread. When you sell non-compliant items, the penalties can be enormous. It's no laughing matter!! When the line between DIY and retail sale is crossed, one needs to re-evaluate the ramifications of selling certain things without the correct approvals.

Paul, I hope you manage to find a suitable AUS plug that floats your boat and yields the sound that you desire. Good luck with it all!

Offline fallsaudio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Liked: 43
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2014, 11:29:04 PM »
Thank you my friends ,
                                  The problem will be resolved and we will  all reap the best out come. Thank you for your support !!!!
That is the beauty of a forum matters can be talk about and a solution is borne .

Offline zenelectro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 793
  • Liked: 151
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2014, 12:30:45 AM »
Thank you my friends ,
                                  The problem will be resolved and we will  all reap the best out come. Thank you for your support !!!!
That is the beauty of a forum matters can be talk about and a solution is borne .

It might also be worth looking through the Medical / Hospital grade stuff. I used to do service on some of this gear and have
seen some pretty fancy looking mains plugs / sockets.

Offline stevenvalve

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1512
  • Liked: 269
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2014, 02:04:04 AM »
No, we've got plenty to do thanks Mario. Thank you for your concern. ;)

My first post in over two years of membership... Shame it had to be in response to your post.

If questioning the legality of the cables and the actual conductor material of the fake Oyaide plugs (which are a brass substrate with a gold, copper, rhodium or nickel plating) makes us dickheads, then so be it. I've been called worse by much more influential people than your good self.

I'm glad to see that some members here have got their heads screwed on correctly - some excellent posts in this thread. When you sell non-compliant items, the penalties can be enormous. It's no laughing matter!! When the line between DIY and retail sale is crossed, one needs to re-evaluate the ramifications of selling certain things without the correct approvals.

Paul, I hope you manage to find a suitable AUS plug that floats your boat and yields the sound that you desire. Good luck with it all!
Pete, As you can read, Mario is not very diplomatic, for Mario that was kind, you should see what he calls me..... :P

Offline ozmillsy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Liked: 245
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2014, 07:45:19 AM »
Lol !!!  Very funny.   ;D
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline ozmillsy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
  • Liked: 245
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2014, 04:03:56 PM »
Geez, SG was cracking a joke, at his own expense,  to lighten the mood.   Take it easy V !!
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 63
  • Caring and sharing
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2014, 06:47:38 PM »
 :) Yeah no worries Oz but I always stick up for my mates even if it was a tongue in cheek comment which I failed to pick up on. My bad?
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline rab

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 219
  • Liked: 30
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2014, 09:58:59 PM »
Pete, As you can read, Mario is not very diplomatic, for Mario that was kind, you should see what he calls me..... :P

Ha ha, calling someone a dickhead is just Mario's way of saying hello  ;D


Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2451
  • Liked: 67
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2014, 11:10:17 PM »
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/74071-power-cables/

i posted about them if they are certified to australian standards!
my post got deleted  :o :o :o
welcome to sna  :-*
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Greg Erskine

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Liked: 2
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2014, 06:52:05 AM »
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/74071-power-cables/

i posted about them if they are certified to australian standards!
my post got deleted  :o :o :o
welcome to sna  :-*

Hi Mario,

If you are really interested contact the manufacture.

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/Contact.htm

regards
Greg

Offline data

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
  • Liked: 19
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2014, 11:22:44 AM »
Ha ha, calling someone a dickhead is just Mario's way of saying hello  ;D
So funny because It's true  :D

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1151
  • Liked: 63
  • Caring and sharing
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2014, 11:54:07 AM »
:) So...what arrived in your mail in box this morning, anything from across the Pond by chance? in my inbox this morning was a link to the site listed below.  The 20 something American Lady could certainly stir a few electrons with her voice alone but the marketing for the product is supposed to be compelling.......................Magnets makes music, errrr, right.  Well we nearly all know about the tiny pulses travelling along interconnect can be invaded by all sorts of nasties which add in a negative way so how's about that ladies and gentlemen (in a paedophile voice of a certain deceased presenter - TV personality)

http://www.magnetsmakemoremusic.com/

Slip on a load of magnets along all your cables so the conductors run through the magnets centre and sit back and be amazed..............well something like that.  I think this will be quite difficult in practice but the first to hear the benefits please write on the back of a 50 dollar note your listening improvements to: Chez V, Glen forrest, Perth WA (tee hee). It's a "game changer" according to some reviewers in the States.

Prices: CT-1 speaker cable $ 4'000/3m/pr, CT-1E speaker cable $ 7'000/3m/pr, CT-1E RCA interconnects $ 2'800/1m/pr

Final thoughts, well 6 paychecks liked them; the mains cables look thinner than the normal 'adult sized' cables we normally see and the mains conditioners are errr f- ing expensive boxes for a 'passive device'.  Over to your blokeies for your thoughts and considerations. I am particularly looking forward to a reply from Mr. Zen on this one.
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline PingPing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
  • Liked: 6
Re: Power Cables
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2014, 12:54:48 PM »
vitavoxdude, what exactly did you buy?

... and is that AUD$4.00/3m/pr or AUD$4,000/3m/pr :)