Author Topic: Power Cables  (Read 18546 times)

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2014, 09:11:25 PM »
Should see my amp when the cage is off, when I switch on my thumb is about two inches from the 240vac  :D

Offline kajak12

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2014, 09:42:06 PM »
Should see my amp when the cage is off, when I switch on my thumb is about two inches from the 240vac  :D
What a way to go 240ac from a valve amp if i got zapped by transistor amp i died i would be coming back to haunt it.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2014, 09:46:38 PM »
If I go I hope It's the HT, that way I might go with some pleasant harmonics, a more peaceful rest ;)

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2014, 11:15:37 PM »
Terry, this certainly covers the direct risk to people and property.

It doesn't, however, cover the risk associated with Paul selling non-compliant items. The ramifications can be significant if Fair Trading gets involved. They chase, and chase hard.

Edit: sorry... Paul, I forgot to wish you all the best if you do indeed choose to pursue the certification path. :)

Pete,

Agreed - hence my comments WRT prototypes and custom installations.

I am sure a good chat with compliance engineers that are used to dealing with all these scenarios will be worth while.

T



Offline pete_mac

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2014, 06:00:07 AM »
Pete,

Agreed - hence my comments WRT prototypes and custom installations.

I am sure a good chat with compliance engineers that are used to dealing with all these scenarios will be worth while.

T

Ah, of course!

 ;D

Offline guru

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »
I had a good long 2 hour chat to ComTest in Melbourne when we were there for the show and aside from reviewing the products before submission, they explained the constantly changing regulations and requirements. A very worthwhile exercise.
 As for certification for 2 products, figure $6000, 2 of each product to be destroyed and that was using all components in the designs having already statements of compliance regarding use according to the Australian Standards. Certification overseas was even more expensive.

Offline gamve

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2014, 12:18:52 PM »
I had a good long 2 hour chat to ComTest in Melbourne when we were there for the show and aside from reviewing the products before submission, they explained the constantly changing regulations and requirements. A very worthwhile exercise.
 As for certification for 2 products, figure $6000, 2 of each product to be destroyed and that was using all components in the designs having already statements of compliance regarding use according to the Australian Standards. Certification overseas was even more expensive.

And we wonder why small business is not a viable option for trading in Australia any more. This country has lost all grip on reality.
These costs explain why a Australian locally made product with $50.00 worth of materials retails for $650.00 in the market place.
It would not be so bad excepting that successive rubbish governments allow cheap sh!tty imports into this country that make sure
all the local small business's go broke. Try demanding the AS Standards certification on a $3.50 Chinese made power board at
Bunnings and see how you get on.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 12:38:33 PM by gamve »

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2014, 12:25:52 PM »
And we wonder why small business is not a viable option for trading in Australia any more. This country has lost all grip on reality.
Geez! it would take a long time to recoup that selling power cords :(

Offline data

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2014, 02:04:03 PM »
I have to say that certification is BS when they charge that sort of money for it, looks more like a f'ing tax.

Like Gamve points out it favours the big players, and slams the door on the small ones and potential start ups.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 02:17:54 PM by data »

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2014, 03:31:35 PM »
I had a good long 2 hour chat to ComTest in Melbourne when we were there for the show and aside from reviewing the products before submission, they explained the constantly changing regulations and requirements. A very worthwhile exercise.
 As for certification for 2 products, figure $6000, 2 of each product to be destroyed and that was using all components in the designs having already statements of compliance regarding use according to the Australian Standards. Certification overseas was even more expensive.

And we wonder why small business is not a viable option for trading in Australia any more. This country has lost all grip on reality.
These costs explain why a Australian locally made product with $50.00 worth of materials retails for $650.00 in the market place.
It would not be so bad excepting that successive rubbish governments allow cheap sh!tty imports into this country that make sure
all the local small business's go broke. Try demanding the AS Standards certification on a $3.50 Chinese made power board at
Bunnings and see how you get on.

Guys, you are getting off track and not addressing the core (no pun intended) issues - no wonder Paul is frustrated.

Guru - correct me if I'm wrong here but I am assuming most of the $6k you are referring to is for EMC compliance testing etc.

I have looked further into this and I am almost certain that power cables do not require EMC compliance as they do not have any electronics inside them.

They do however require safety compliance and I am sure this is a lot cheaper / easier for obvious reasons.
http://www.australiansafetyapproval.com/application.php

Whether you can get exemptions from specified max conductor core sizes etc etc is another matter that would have to be looked into.
Hence my suggestion to talk to a compliance engineer / expert.

cheers



Offline guru

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2014, 04:16:13 PM »
Guys, you are getting off track and not addressing the core (no pun intended) issues - no wonder Paul is frustrated.

Guru - correct me if I'm wrong here but I am assuming most of the $6k you are referring to is for EMC compliance testing etc.

I have looked further into this and I am almost certain that power cables do not require EMC compliance as they do not have any electronics inside them.

They do however require safety compliance and I am sure this is a lot cheaper / easier for obvious reasons.
http://www.australiansafetyapproval.com/application.php

Whether you can get exemptions from specified max conductor core sizes etc etc is another matter that would have to be looked into.
Hence my suggestion to talk to a compliance engineer / expert.

cheers

T
Testing to AS/NZS 3105:2014 , preparing ESV Electrical Authority APPROVAL APPLICATION, payment of fees and obtaining approval number.
We are doing it so as not to be ever in a situation of being held liable for claims and not affecting our liability insurance coverage. if you are importing a product with existing approvals and wish to get a certificate of compliance then I believe the link you refer to is correct. As we are manufacturing then the requirements are different.
We are okay with the costs as we believe Australian certification actually means something, if I wanted it China certified then that would be seen as quite different by our customers and I don't want to be seen claiming " but it's certified in China." as something I'm proud of.

Offline Gee Emm

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2014, 04:20:35 PM »
Hi Guru

Can I ask which organisation you may consider using for certification to 3105?

G

Offline guru

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2014, 05:16:44 PM »
Hi Guru

Can I ask which organisation you may consider using for certification to 3105?

G
ComTest in south Melbourne.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2014, 09:54:13 PM »
Testing to AS/NZS 3105:2014 , preparing ESV Electrical Authority APPROVAL APPLICATION, payment of fees and obtaining approval number.
We are doing it so as not to be ever in a situation of being held liable for claims and not affecting our liability insurance coverage.
That's the usual reason
Quote
if you are importing a product with existing approvals and wish to get a certificate of compliance then I believe the link you refer to is correct. As we are manufacturing then the requirements are different.
I don't see that mentioned anywhere and am not convinced this is the case - but as always am happy to be proved wrong. :)
Quote
We are okay with the costs as we believe Australian certification actually means something, if I wanted it China certified then that would be seen as quite different by our customers and I don't want to be seen claiming " but it's certified in China." as something I'm proud of.
I think customer perception is a separate issue - that really falls broadly under marketing. We are talking legal requirements.

FWIW, another example popped into my mind - transformers. If every transformer made by small manufacturers required compliance
testing, they'd go broke. AFAIK if you are lucky they will do a primary to secondary leakage test. I'm going to have a chat with a few
people in the industry this week and gather some more info / see where they all stand on these issues.   

T
 

Offline Gee Emm

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #94 on: November 19, 2014, 09:28:48 AM »

Offline Tuyen

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2014, 11:09:54 PM »
Before one of you fellas get angry and chuck another hissy fit, no I have not deleted half of the off topic posts.  I have moved them  to the following thread:

http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,2747.msg22665.html#new

Peace :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2015, 10:22:55 PM »
Hi audio heads, over the years I have tried many different tweaks particularly interconnects and power cords. I have many friends in the industry and they have brought around countless brands of expensive audio cables and invariably they leave disappointed because these cables (despite certain advantages) just did not cut it . About a week ago I acquired a cheap power cord made by Paul from Falls audio. I have to say that for the first time in years i have tried a product that really is an improvement in my system. This cable (Merlin) had the ability to leave the magic intact, the Beauty, Natural Realism, Timbre, Body, Warmth, and most importantly Involvement, it was not bright nor dark, pitch and rhythm was first class. Interestingly this is first time a cable did not make some kind of hurtful change to the essence of the music. If there was brilliance to be had it was left intact, without damaging side effects. This is the only power cord I have tried that did not hurt what matters. What it did do was take away a layer of muck, noise, and confusion, music was ordered, with real clarity. There is one caveat, i used this cable in the most critical of HiFi spots, the Dac, this is where the noise is the biggest problem and where the cable will probably have the greatest effect.  I don't know if this cable is legal in Australia or not, Personally i do not care, others may. This cable is very good and the best I have heard and best of all it's cheap.

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2015, 06:52:03 AM »
Great to get the review steve, thanks for your efforts in writing it.

No surprises here. Paul went through many types of wire and plug combinations to get the results you are hearing, I know because I did the initial testing, before they were sent elsewhere. Cables were only sent out for evaluation unless we thought they were good enough, lots of wire and plugs were found to hurt the music and hence ended up in the bin.:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Paul was doing this as service to music lovers and frankly it was barely worth his while at what he was charging. Less hassle mowing lawns or cleaning.  While I don't have a problem with people talking about safety the threads had a sanctimonious tone to them.
No wonder Paul isn't particularly interested in discussing this further. If you want a musical sounding cable and your willing to accept falls audio cables on a DIY basis go for it...........
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 06:54:53 AM by hedalfa »

Offline onthebeach

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2015, 02:34:47 PM »
Is the Merlin the same as the Marlin I reviewed in reply 5 of this thread or is it a different cable?

Offline hedalfa

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Re: Power Cables
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2015, 03:13:47 PM »
Is the Merlin the same as the Marlin I reviewed in reply 5 of this thread or is it a different cable?

I believe Paul also experimented with cryo plugs but didn't get around to sending me one. I think the Merlin has a cryo plug.  Until I hear it I cant say how different it is to the other cables. Ill get Paul to send me one, and let you know. Sounds like it works well in lower power sources like the DAC.