Author Topic: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac  (Read 51726 times)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2014, 01:08:53 PM »
You mean optimised it properly to your liking in your opinion. No offence Steve,
Opinion has nothing to do with the truth, There is 100,000 + audiophiles opinions, only one really matters, the Cello's. It's telling you what music sounds like, so is that guitar etc. They are the only opinion that matters.

Offline skc

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2014, 02:02:35 PM »
Ah yes, how silly of me. I forgot that only "live unamplified cello and guitar music" matters. Best I ditch the other 98% of my music collection pronto! :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2014, 02:18:10 PM »
Ah yes, how silly of me. I forgot that only "live unamplified cello and guitar music" matters. Best I ditch the other 98% of my music collection pronto! :)
You are missing the point, You use these and other unamplified instruments as a tuning tools, they are telling you the sounds to aim for. If you are into heavy metal go there.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 04:39:27 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline skc

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2014, 03:29:06 PM »
^ if I am missing the point, why do the systems which sound great on guitar/cello always sound compromised on electronic / rock / symphonic music?

Offline hedalfa

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2014, 04:23:10 PM »
^ if I am missing the point, why do the systems which sound great on guitar/cello always sound compromised on electronic / rock / symphonic music?

Tuning for the subtle timbres that instruments like cello convey is significant design and tuning challenges. To get it some power handling ,dynamics and other characteristics may be traded away. Maybe there are a few out seeking it all yet I suspect that part of the answer is that aren’t many who are trying to get it all. Part of the reason I suspect isn’t necessarily technical or pure design rather plain and simple motivation.  Timbrel rightness hearing it an tuning for it is ‘fringe stuff’, it is far away from mainstream.  Having said that its not the case a system has to be compromised for Systems electronic / rock / symphonic music, when doing guitar cello very well, though that’s lifted the bar up really high.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2014, 04:29:09 PM »
^ if I am missing the point, why do the systems which sound great on guitar/cello always sound compromised on electronic / rock / symphonic music?
Do they...... Aren't you the one that said in your previous post, quote (but the arrogance of some of the statements made on this forum from time to time is staggering)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 04:31:03 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2014, 05:02:25 PM »
TJ's system is reported to do electronic/rock amazingly well.  Everyone who has heard it, says this.

Single driver system like mine is definitely compromised in comparison.   My system just cant put out the same SPL's/dynamics.

Different systems and approaches have different strengths. 
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline Mark OTL

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2014, 05:49:35 PM »
Mark, Do have the original valves in your Kdac?
Lets try that again. Hi Steve, I'm currently using AWM Super Radiotron Shouldered Bottle rectifier and National Gold Line outputs. I really like the sound of this combination so have kept it like this for some time now.
Cheers, mark.
Best learn from other peoples mistakes, you'll never have time to make them all yourself!

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2014, 05:54:03 PM »
^ if I am missing the point, why do the systems which sound great on guitar/cello always sound compromised on electronic / rock / symphonic music?

Yes agree that tuning a system to reproduce a single instrument is not what it is all about, I think SV was using by way of example the Cello, not the only unamplified instrument worth using.  Many systems are capable of reproducing a Cello at realistic levels and it does not impose huge power requirements either, only finesse and clarity. Personally I like voice for trying to get midrange sounding realistic, plucked double bass and drums for lows and harps and triangles for the highs.

Getting Rock music to sound anything like live is really hard, not only do you need high reproduction sound level capability, you also need a lot of radiating area too.  To be able to energise the air in the same way a 100 watt Marshall does via 4, 12 inch celestions or a 20+ inch kick drum takes a serious amount of juice and is beyond most audio systems I have heard.  When Rock is turned down low, it fails to communicate in the same way IMV.

As stated before on this forum, it is very difficult to just have one pair of speakers do all genres of music as drum and bass do not have the same requirements as opera. I would imagine SV's system is tuned around his preferences and his type of music he likes, no different to a lot of us out there in the great audio playground.

I think SV would be the first to agree that an 8 watt vintage speaker driven by valves is not the best repro tool for loud rock music  ;D

I also think chipsets comes into it also somewhat with the old TDA chips being exceptional at certain music styles and the newer 24 bit chipsets have their own individual charm too. I own many different dacs with 14 to 24 bit chips and the bigger the numbers does not always equal improved sound at chez V.

IMV the TDA chip has an early roll off in the highs making it more 'romantic' or soft in the treble extremes, it also has higher distortion in the highs than modern chipsets, but that does not stop it in the KDAC implementation form sounding very good indeed.

There is no best in this regards, only different approaches to the reproduction of music in the home and I feel reasonably certain that most KDAC owners wouldn't claim they have the best (certainly not me).  Shame Tuyen is not buying a LM DAC :(, this will restrict being able to easily hear one; if LM's pedigree is anything to go by it should be pretty damn good as the FC speakers and Amps are terrific if expensive IMV.

I have lost a fair bit of bark over the last 43 years of audio addiction from my teens on my journey and am glad that I finally managed to arrive at a place where music can happen in a natural way via an older technology.  R2R is also fabulous with good tapes and even vinyl if you have deep pockets. I really do not think the consensus here is that the Sabre cannot be any good, only that it has probably not reached its zen in application outside of the designers lab.
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline skc

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2014, 06:06:34 PM »

IMV the TDA chip has an early roll off in the highs making it more 'romantic' or soft in the treble extremes, it also has higher distortion in the highs than modern chipsets, but that does not stop it in the KDAC implementation form sounding very good indeed.

In other words; it is inherently suited to the particular type of music (favoured by some on this forum), and is less capable on other types of music. That's a vastly different proposition to being inferior because someone hasn't been able to "omtimise it properly".

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2014, 06:36:09 PM »
Well I reckon electronic is starting to sound pretty amazing on my system.   All the recent changes I have been making have played right into that genre nicely.

The metrum octave while no way considered a reference, is certainly in the modern sounding dac category, sounds rather ordinary in comparison (on electronic, rock and all other genres).
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline kajak12

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2014, 07:01:31 PM »
Lets try that again. Hi Steve, I'm currently using AWM Super Radiotron Shouldered Bottle rectifier and National Gold Line outputs. I really like the sound of this combination so have kept it like this for some time now.
Cheers, mark.
Houston we have a problem   (hi mark)
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2014, 07:41:35 PM »
In other words; it is inherently suited to the particular type of music (favoured by some on this forum), and is less capable on other types of music. That's a vastly different proposition to being inferior because someone hasn't been able to "omtimise it properly".
I for one have no doubt the TDA chip will and can be bettered on some forms of music, But who knows the TDA may also be better than the modern chips on most forms of music, Anyway Talk is cheap, If anyone thinks they have a better digital front end, my door is open, It always has been open, many have tried, one day it will happen, Maybe it will be the modified Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac, Lets hope so. I what Hi res. But my gut feeling is it wont happen, but going on the modified Line Magnetic inside parts list it will at least will be closer that the others and probably (as most) be in some ways better.
 What are other DAC types up against. I play my Studio mastering machine Otari MTR 10, with a full valve output stage running Steve Hoffman master tapes, As you can imagine its absolutely amazing. then i fire up the DAC, the second it starts it's just so good, you do not feel short changed in any way, you do not want to turn it off. Interestingly most of the resent visitors never made it to the Reel to Reel machine, They where so blow away with the DAC they really did not care to change, that speaks for itself. Is it that good... well Yes, its better than good. So lets not fcuk around, bring the best DACs on offer, Lets see if a 30 year old Holland TDA15141A S2 can be beaten. Any takers

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2014, 07:50:59 PM »
If the reference is your tape machine, and we are comparing recordings taken off your R2R machine, played on various dacs, compared to, the R2R itself......

Then I think that is a reasonable yardstick to shoot for.  :)
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2014, 07:58:18 PM »
If the reference is your tape machine, and we are comparing recordings taken off your R2R machine, played on various dacs, compared to, the R2R itself......

Then I think that is a reasonable yardstick to shoot for.  :)
It's about Chip vs Chip, DAC Vs DAC.  Not tape.

Offline Tuyen

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2014, 08:15:35 PM »
I thought we had all agreed in the past that there is never such a thing as an absolute 'best' in this hobby. Just 'different'?    Or have we sadly reverted back to the mentality that it's either 'my way' or the 'wrong way'?   The feeling I'm getting reading through the posts on this thread certainly seems like the later.

Unless...  KDAC owners = Illuminati??  :o :P

« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:23:13 PM by Tuyen »

Offline kajak12

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2014, 08:32:53 PM »
I thought we had all agreed in the past that there is never such a thing as an absolute 'best' in this hobby. Just 'different'?    Or have we sadly reverted back to the mentality that it's either 'my way' or the 'wrong way'?   The feeling I'm getting reading through the posts on this thread certainly seems like the later.

Unless...  KDAC owners = Illuminati??  :o :P
WTF is illuminati?
absolute best = real music (how close can you get to it at home? is the difference...................
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2014, 08:57:36 PM »
I thought we had all agreed in the past that there is never such a thing as an absolute 'best' in this hobby. Just 'different'?    Or have we sadly reverted back to the mentality that it's either 'my way' or the 'wrong way'?   The feeling I'm getting reading through the posts on this thread certainly seems like the later.

Unless...  KDAC owners = Illuminati??  :o :P
Most people here don't own a KDac,  yes, as discussed before so true there is no absolute 'best,' I just what to put the sabre chip debate to bed. No one around the world raves about them, They have been around for a enough time to be sorted out  Anyway we are just having fun, nobody takes it all to seriously.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 09:00:38 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2014, 09:05:39 PM »
KDAC owners = Illuminati??  :o :P

................................................................................................ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha..........the enlightenment draws ever nearer ;)No one knows best here IMV.  We are all so different that common likes dislikes are bound to be a non ending flame war.  I really look forward to getting the chance of hearing the LM dac and if it is really good would buy it.

So Mr. T, what digital processor / DAC are you currently using post the DDDAC?  Must be good but we are yet to be informed.

V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: The Line Magnetic LM-502CA Dac
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2014, 10:03:51 PM »
It's about Chip vs Chip, DAC Vs DAC.  Not tape.
In order to fairly compare dac vs dac, you need an independent baseline.

Tape on your system sounds amazing.
Whichever dac gets closest to the actual source (the amazing sounding tape), wins.
Pretty simple.

The problem with not doing it this way, is the comparisons are driven by the music choices (which recording better suits).
 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:08:31 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.