Rubidium Clocks

[Erik van Voorst]

Thanks great info, much appreciated.
Alex reacted as well however feastrex chose not to answer...

I am in the process of still reading and gathering info...normal for me is that it takes a while...

[kajak12]

I wonder if we could could borrow it from war audio tuyen or i will ring pat find out what frequency he is using make my own clock and take it to his shop to run against the fancy one

[Erik van Voorst]

I for one would be interested in the outcome, since I want a "kind of feeling" (based on practical experiences by real people...so no maths)
that the rubidium clock "does" things that can not somehow be reproduced by other sophisticated clocks in order to plunge into the pretty much unknown deep end among us DIY-ers......

[treblid]

Kind of mystified by this... Shouldn't the clock match the clock used originally? So if the original wave form is not clocked by a rubidium (and not accurate), what will playback with a rubidium do?

If the same clock is used for both encoding, and decoding, then maybe it's a winner? Or am I totally wrong?

[zenelectro]

Kind of mystified by this... Shouldn't the clock match the clock used originally? So if the original wave form is not clocked by a rubidium (and not accurate), what will playback with a rubidium do?

If the same clock is used for both encoding, and decoding, then maybe it's a winner? Or am I totally wrong?

It looks like from the pictures the Illusion Rubi has all the usual clock freq for most requirements (11.2896 etc).

It would be good to know exactly how it was used in this case.

WRT the Illusion Rubi, the oscillator module used in that clock is pretty widely available and has pretty good phase noise specs
especially at low frequencies (important) but certainly not near the best Rub clocks in performance - however they would cost a bomb, so to speak.

IMO, Ovenised oscillator is a better option and my zen killerclock has better XO specs than the Illusion - especially at low frequencies.

Just playing with power supplies / reclocking / squaring etc ATM. There's a lot to clocking when you get into it - and even experts have contradicting opinions
WRT proper design of various elements - all adds to the design fun

Not too far off.

cheers

T

[tuyen]

No idea how much it costs, TJ.  I wasn't interested in buying anything there so didn't bother asking!  Just popped into War Audio to see what has been happening there lately since I was already around that area (went to NetPlus to replace a faulty Noctua fan for my desktop computer)

My post was more just to show Erik and others interested that there are commercial produced kits/units out there that use the rubidium unit and it doesn't sound terrible. Realising that the clock will only contribute so much to the overall sound of any setup particular setup.

Zen killerclock should be interesting, Terry. Knowing it won't be a simple fixed solution for all setups, as parts on each one must be tuned to each individual setup to sound best?   Just like the killerDAC ? (although funnily enough, nearly all kdac owners seem to end up running the same selection of parts!)  

[ozmillsy]

Just like the killerDAC ? (although funnily enough, nearly all kdac owners seem to end up running the same selection of parts!)  

do they?   bet you no one else has the same chokes that I do,   I dont know what they are,   ADC something.....

not everyone runs the same chip model.     I actually think the taiwan double crown would be better for a horn system,  it has more speed and attack than the earlier german crowns.

[Erik van Voorst]

I have sent them an email asking a few things if/when they reply I will let you know the answers 

[Erik van Voorst]

WRT the Illusion Rubi, the oscillator module used in that clock is pretty widely available and has pretty good phase noise specs
especially at low frequencies (important) but certainly not near the best Rub clocks in performance - however they would cost a bomb, so to speak.

Hi Zen which "expensive" ones are you referring to and do you have a link for me...

[tuyen]

Hi oz!   Good point, not sure who else out of us use ADC chokes   I've only tried Chicago, UTC and the stock 5H units.   To me, of the parts that I've tried playing around with in the past in the kdac, in order of most to least difference would have to be: output tubes, output caps, dac chip, power tube, power caps, chokes then internal wiring.    Obviously, the ordering would vary between us all, as it would depends on what parts we are trying out, sound we are after, rest of the system(amps,speakers) etc..

True the tda chip makes a diff.   I've tried the S2 taiwan chip and a S1 holland chip too in my current system too.  The S1 gives the focus on the midrange with more body in the mids  but doesn't have the lightness and openness in the highs like the S2 taiwan chip has.    I actually preferred the S1 chip in the kdac with the horns!    The interesting thing is (believe me or not), is that I can actually make my system give a slightly similar effect (not exactly though) as changing the chips by just adjusting the various volumes of the mid-low and high channels on my crossover!  Turn the volume of the tweeter up a notch and the  mid-low horn down a notch  with the S1 chip in and it sounds like the S2 taiwan chip and visa versa

Does this in-turn mean my active crossover is masking too much of the original signal? I hope not!!

[ozmillsy]

Hi oz!   Good point, not sure who else out of us use ADC chokes   I've only tried Chicago, UTC and the stock 5H units.   To me, of the parts that I've tried playing around with in the past in the kdac, in order of most to least difference would have to be: output tubes, output caps, dac chip, power tube, power caps, chokes then internal wiring.    Obviously, the ordering would vary between us all, as it would depends on what parts we are trying out, sound we are after, rest of the system(amps,speakers) etc..

 On my Dac I've tried UTC's, Freeds and ADC chokes -  and they were all so obviously different.  I would describe it being a major difference.  The chokes used can have a dramatic effect.    I'd like to try Chicago's sometime.   I think it's abit hard to order all the parts in importance,  as they all work together.  As SV describes- "it's a series of colourations, until it sounds right".   

True the tda chip makes a diff.   I've tried the S2 taiwan chip and a S1 holland chip too in my current system too.  The S1 gives the focus on the midrange with more body in the mids  but doesn't have the lightness and openness in the highs like the S2 taiwan chip has.    I actually preferred the S1 chip in the kdac with the horns!    The interesting thing is (believe me or not), is that I can actually make my system give a slightly similar effect (not exactly though) as changing the chips by just adjusting the various volumes of the mid-low and high channels on my crossover!  Turn the volume of the tweeter up a notch and the  mid-low horn down a notch  with the S1 chip in and it sounds like the S2 taiwan chip and visa versa

Absolutely I believe you.   The beauty of a custom active system, is you can do this.   What you describe, is also why so many people love digital EQ systems,  as they can tailor the sound the same way.   But every digital EQ system I've heard, has hurt the system in other ways.

Does this in-turn mean my active crossover is masking too much of the original signal? I hope not!!

Who knows what it may or may not be masking. As you know, all volume pots can effect the sound.  Your active crossover has several of them per channel.    But if you can still hear changes upstream through the cross over,  then this is a good sign. 

[zenelectro]

WRT the Illusion Rubi, the oscillator module used in that clock is pretty widely available and has pretty good phase noise specs
especially at low frequencies (important) but certainly not near the best Rub clocks in performance - however they would cost a bomb, so to speak.

Hi Zen which "expensive" ones are you referring to and do you have a link for me...

Hi Erik,

These guys  -  http://www.ptsyst.com/   do a 10MHz Rubidium frequency standard that has lowest phase noise I have seen.
The low frequency phase noise is exceptional, ie; -110dBc at 1Hz offset from carrier for 10MHz.

You would have to get a custom one made for 11.2896MHz and I wouldn't like to guess how much it would cost.

T
 

[Erik van Voorst]

Too afraid to ask.... But can't resist :p.. How much is that?

As far as I get this right it is approx 1000 Euro for a kit......hmmmm does not scare me immediately...I somehow recon the Degawa Power supply (inevitable part of the kit/clock) would be hard to design/beat in other words when I decide to go take the plunge I am also willing to pay for their technology.

[Erik van Voorst]

Hi Erik,

You would have to get a custom one made for 11.2896MHz and I wouldn't like to guess how much it would cost.

I will ask them, however on their site they leave an impression that they can supply it with different frequency "fairly easy"....as in "decent additional costs"....maybe my wishfull thinking  

[tuyen]

Another implementation of a rubidium clock in a diy built cd transport:

[kajak12]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Supper-Low-JITTER-Clock-11-2896Mhz-Rubidium-Frequency-/180497234806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a06793b76

[treblid]

My CD player can accept an external clock for input (BNC 75Ohm). And it can lock to 44.1hz and it's multiples...  Do you know if this unit will work for me?

[zenelectro]

My CD player can accept an external clock for input (BNC 75Ohm). And it can lock to 44.1hz and it's multiples...  Do you know if this unit will work for me?

If your CD player has to lock to external clock then it has internal PLL which will track the external clock.

Much better off using internal high quality fixed clock of 11.2896MHz (if that is what it uses).

cheers

T 

[zenelectro]

Another implementation of a rubidium clock in a diy built cd transport:

Tuyen,

 I have seen these but cant remember where - which player is this?

Thnx

T

[tuyen]

Hi T,

Kit could of been from http://www.ahfartaudio.com/

http://diyblogs.blogspot.com/2008/10/philips-cd-pro2-lf-transport-in-making.html

Doesn't look like he sells them anymore though..