Author Topic: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba  (Read 22541 times)

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2011, 09:48:54 PM »
Has Craig C heard this JKenny PDX?   Does he support the wide margin view?
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline gamve

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2011, 10:02:35 PM »
"But with a JK any PDX bests a Killer"
Jeez Bill thats a big statement. I'm not here to bait you, I was just sharing my thoughts on PC based audio at this current point in time. I have not heard a PDX and I have not ever heard a PC interface that makes music. I tried all the obvious stuff quite a while back...load the play list and the playback software into a RAM virtual drive (so there are no moving parts and no hard drive access needed) and use a sound card that interferes as little as possible getting the sound out to a external DAC (think I was using a full blown BYOB Altmann DAC back then). Put the PC in another room and another power circuit.....it all still sounded very digital to me......pissed me off so much I only played records and tapes for months after that exercise.... :D
 

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2011, 12:27:34 AM »
Has Craig C heard this JKenny PDX?   Does he support the wide margin view?

I am pretty sure I mentioned previously some disagree with this and while I didn't mention names before I don't think Craig minds his name being mentioned as one that didn't agree with it.  But I can assure you they are in the minority and some of that majority include people who many would say have golden ears.  Who is right?  We will find out.  But from my viewpoint, since I can hear a significant difference that's good enough for me.

Thanks
Bill


Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2011, 12:36:03 AM »
Your considering antying up for a KD, an extra $1500 for a decent modded transport shouldn't hurt too much. Buy some blank CD's and start burning. In my opinion for what little it's worth, is this music computer stuff is still a long way away from being worth the effort. Do you think that with the rubbish standard of computer gear these days that any of the computer manufacturers can be bothered to develop some decent chip sets that can rival the best of the past? It's looking like that is a wishful thinking to me.

Hi Gamve

  But with a JK any PDX bests a Killer.  Caveat here - this is of course from memory.  The real test will of course be in a direct comparison.  
Thanks
Bill
Hey bill take your pdx hiface jump on a plane and go to wentworthfalls or come to perth rockingham then you will understand what the killer dac does on a real system which people spent years tuning not of the shelf bought hifi crap.
while your in wentworthfalls visit ozmillsy and run against his killer tuned by ear and months of it on some sgr goodness.Caveat here is people that are valve lovers adimired what andrew done with his sgr's (well done oz ;) )
if your pdx wins then we will all buy one we are after music afterall
ps:i wont buy one i will just make one
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 12:49:37 AM by kajak12 »
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Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2011, 12:49:25 AM »
Jeez Bill thats a big statement. I'm not here to bait you, I was just sharing my thoughts on PC based audio at this current point in time. I have not heard a PDX and I have not ever heard a PC interface that makes music. I tried all the obvious stuff quite a while back...load the play list and the playback software into a RAM virtual drive (so there are no moving parts and no hard drive access needed) and use a sound card that interferes as little as possible getting the sound out to a external DAC (think I was using a full blown BYOB Altmann DAC back then). Put the PC in another room and another power circuit.....it all still sounded very digital to me......pissed me off so much I only played records and tapes for months after that exercise.... :D

Yes it is a big statement and not one I make lightly.  Until the JK and Audiophello, to be blunt about it, your appraisal was correct - the better transports simply blew away computer audio.  As I said Mike Lenehan was just as skeptical as you - maybe even more so.  He openly scoffed at me for going the computer route - and on a sound quality basis he was right.  But with the JK and Adiophello to many ears things are now different.  I know that things are in train to try and get one of these battery modified Hiface infused PDX out there so people can check it out for themselves.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 01:27:15 AM by bhobba »

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2011, 12:57:33 AM »
Hey bill take your pdx hiface jump on a plane and go to wentworthfalls or come to perth rockingham then you will understand what the killer dac does on a real system which people spent years tuning not of the shelf bought hifi crap.while your in wentworthfalls visit ozmillsy and run against his killer tuned by ear and months of it on some sgr goodness.Caveat here is people that are valve lovers adimired what andrew done with his sgr's (well done oz ;) )if your pdx wins then we will all buy one we are after music afterall ps:i wont buy one i will just make one

I think I have also mentioned once the Killer gets infused with a JK or something similar then my gut tells me it will best the PDX.  Things are in train to do something similar to what you suggest and things will be a lot clearer in time. BTW are you suggesting the PDX is off the shelf bought Hi Fi crap - its not tuned to an individuals system - and I have already stated my gut feeling that when fed with the same JK source the Killer will pip the PDX - but off the shelf crap it most certainly is not eg it contains Ribbontek cables internally - off the shelf stuff contains nothing like that.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 01:17:59 AM by bhobba »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2011, 08:44:30 AM »
pdx is built to a price the kd is not.your leben is built to a price my amp or steves is not.the laben is of the shelf hifi crap built to a price have a look inside it.
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Offline audiophool

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2011, 11:16:25 PM »
All right, I have read this whole thread and it somehow doesn't seem to make sense to me.
If I had the finances to have a KDAC made for me, I cannot imagine I would start a thread on the KDAC forum expecting "the man" to come looking for me.
I most certainly would not use it as a vehicle to tout the superiority of a competitive product, which seems to be happening here.
I find it difficult to imagine why, when firmly convinced (seemingly) that a JKmodHiface equipped PDX bests any KDAC, one might want to order/commission a KDAC.
I smell a trojan horse, a subterfuge to promote the PDX on the KDAC forum.
That, I consider very poor form.
My opinion solely, but based on the evidence in this thread.

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2011, 12:00:34 AM »
All right, I have read this whole thread and it somehow doesn't seem to make sense to me.
If I had the finances to have a KDAC made for me, I cannot imagine I would start a thread on the KDAC forum expecting "the man" to come looking for me.
I most certainly would not use it as a vehicle to tout the superiority of a competitive product, which seems to be happening here.
I find it difficult to imagine why, when firmly convinced (seemingly) that a JKmodHiface equipped PDX bests any KDAC, one might want to order/commission a KDAC.
I smell a trojan horse, a subterfuge to promote the PDX on the KDAC forum.
That, I consider very poor form.
My opinion solely, but based on the evidence in this thread.
KILLER POST
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »
well worded reply audiophool! i totally agree.. shame on you bill :-*

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2011, 01:50:29 PM »
Whew.  This whole thing seems to have gone way off track.  I was not using this as a trojan horse. My original post outlined exactly what was going on - no hidden agenda's - simply a desire to get a Killer DAC and asking the best way to go about it.  Zenelectro responded investigations are underway to sort out the USB issue, which I had heard elsewhere, and I decided to delay getting one until it is sorted out.  I am not touting the superiority of the PDX - I have specifically stated the Killer DAC is the best I have ever heard - it is only the JK infusion of the PDX that lifts it above the Killer - and once it gets something similar it will likely be top dog again.  I think everyone involved should take a deep breath and stop trying read more into things than intended.

The only reason I even mentioned my view about the PDX with JK was in response to the comment computer audio is not up to scratch.  I felt I had respond to that.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 02:03:09 PM by bhobba »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2011, 07:23:27 PM »
it is only the JK infusion of the PDX that lifts it above the Killer - and once it gets something similar it will likely be top dog again.  I think everyone involved should take a deep breath and stop trying read more into things than intended.

The only reason I even mentioned my view about the PDX with JK was in response to the comment computer audio is not up to scratch.  I felt I had respond to that.
Thanks
Bill
jk infusion suddenly makes the pdx 2 a super dac? 
hey bill are you ready for a shootout between kd and pdx 2?
kdac and cd94 or wadia modded vs jkhiface and pdx2 in sydney on steven valves system
i will put money on the kdac
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2011, 08:28:23 PM »
jk infusion suddenly makes the pdx 2 a super dac?  hey bill are you ready for a shootout between kd and pdx 2?kdac and cd94 or wadia modded vs jkhiface and pdx2 in sydney on steven valves system i will put money on the kdac

Hi Mario

Obviously a JK infusion doesn't make any change to the DAC - it does not make the PDX a 'super dac'.  What it does is provide a better source.  As I have mentioned previously I was there when a comparison was made to a Wadia and the JK.  Piano's were distorted on the transport and detail like foot pedals were absent.  That is what made the difference.

I think what you suggest or something similar will happen anyway without my involvement.  Of course if anyone wants to come up here with any DAC at all and compare it to my DAC feel free.  I am confident once a careful listen to the Dianna Krall In Paris track is done they will reach the same conclusion. 

I think we are getting way off the purpose of my original post.  I am happy to continue it but I think it should be in a different thread if anyone wants to start one.

Thanks
Bill   

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2011, 09:02:24 PM »
jk infusion suddenly makes the pdx 2 a super dac?  hey bill are you ready for a shootout between kd and pdx 2?kdac and cd94 or wadia modded vs jkhiface and pdx2 in sydney on steven valves system i will put money on the kdac

Hi Mario
 As I have mentioned previously I was there when a comparison was made to a Wadia and the JK.  Piano's were distorted on the transport and detail like foot pedals were absent.  That is what made the difference.

I think what you suggest or something similar will happen anyway without my involvement.  Of course if anyone wants to come up here with any DAC at all and compare it to my DAC feel free.  

Thanks
Bill  
dont worry about a different thread (i am a moderator)

the wadia you heard is stock nothing like steves wadia or my cd94,bill you have no idea how much difference their is between modded wadia/cd94 and  stock units.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 09:52:14 PM by kajak12 »
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2011, 09:14:18 PM »
I'm always ready to catch all the unwanted Wadia WT3200 and Marantz CD94  ;D

Bill, when you have time you might want to listen again to the kdac, it's been a while since you listened to one and I think not many people have an exceptional audio memory. After you listen and compare both dacs directly, then it's fair to say which one you like most  ;)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2011, 09:59:00 PM »
Has Craig C heard this JKenny PDX?   Does he support the wide margin view?
I am pretty sure I mentioned previously some disagree with this and while I didn't mention names before I don't think Craig minds his name being mentioned as one that didn't agree with it.  

   Bill, trust in life is everything.   And this is particularly true in hifi.    There are some opinions I trust, and some I dont.

The opinions I trust,  are from those people who I have listened to music with,  and where they have articulated what they are hearing in a way that I concur with.   ie:  what I am hearing in the system that we are listening to,  they are describing back to me along the same lines to what I am hearing.    If someone can clearly describe the character of an audio system that is similar to what I hear aswell,  then I have established a level of "trust" in their opinion.

Craig is 1 of these people whose opinion I trust, and why I asked the question.    If his opinion is a polar opposite to your own,  then that sets some context for me.  
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 10:03:22 PM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2011, 10:18:37 PM »
I'm always ready to catch all the unwanted Wadia WT3200 and Marantz CD94  ;D Bill, when you have time you might want to listen again to the kdac, it's been a while since you listened to one and I think not many people have an exceptional audio memory. After you listen and compare both dacs directly, then it's fair to say which one you like most  ;)

Now that is a very valid observation. But I think you and others are missing the point.  It is not a DAC issue - it is a source issue.  The reason the JK infused DAC sounded better had to do with the better signal it got as verified in the very careful listening and analysis of the Dianna Krall track we did.  If the Killer DAC gets fed with a lesser source than another DAC is it really surprising the other DAC can sound better?  That does not mean the other DAC is better - it simply shows the difference a source makes.  Whenever people ask me the best DAC's I have heard the Killer always heads that list - all that has changed is I give a caveat that with the JK the PDX now sounds better to me but my gut tells me once the Killer gets a similar input things will likely change.  Is that really too hard a thing to accept - at least to my ears anyway?

Thanks
Bill  

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2011, 10:45:42 PM »
I'm always ready to catch all the unwanted Wadia WT3200 and Marantz CD94  ;D Bill, when you have time you might want to listen again to the kdac, it's been a while since you listened to one and I think not many people have an exceptional audio memory. After you listen and compare both dacs directly, then it's fair to say which one you like most  ;)

  The reason the JK infused DAC sounded better had to do with the better signal it got as verified in the very careful listening and analysis of the Dianna Krall track we did.  

Thanks
Bill  
And this carefull listening was done on what system? just so some of us can get an idea
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Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2011, 10:46:44 PM »
Bill, trust in life is everything.   And this is particularly true in hifi.   There are some opinions I trust, and some I dont.  The opinions I trust,  are from those people who I have listened to music with,  and where they have articulated what they are hearing in a way that I concur with.   ie:  what I am hearing in the system that we are listening to,  they are describing back to me along the same lines to what I am hearing.    If someone can clearly describe the character of an audio system that is similar to what I hear aswell,  then I have established a level of "trust" in their opinion. Craig is 1 of these people whose opinion I trust, and why I asked the question.    If his opinion is a polar opposite to your own,  then that sets some context for me.

Hi Ozmillsy.  

Abso-friggen-lutely.  And because I am pretty sure Craig won't mind I don't mind giving his name.  The same however does not apply some of the others I heard of who expressed reservations - but what I can tell you is they are equally as experienced as Craig which for my money makes this even more interesting.  However I still am confident if Craig or anyone else sits down and listens carefully to the Dianna Krall track they will be converted.  If not then at least we can each understand the others position better.  I know Craig thinks the JK has a digital edge to it.  I can't hear it and when I mentioned it to Craig he said he was rather sensitive to that sort of stuff.  It may simply be I and others are not.  I am pretty sure exactly what is going on will be sorted out in time.  You, and of course anyone else, are more than welcome to come up my way and check it out for yourself.

Thanks
Bill

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2011, 10:56:31 PM »
And this carefull listening was done on what system? just so some of us can get an idea

Mike's system with ML3 References.  It was with a Level 1 PDX - not Level 2.  I know you don't particularly like Mikes Mac's amps but many people think its pretty transparent.  Interestingly that day we also tried my little Redgum Sonofagum and it readily showed the differences - which shocked a friend I had with me.  I also remember that day we tried a Stello DAC and I2S transport.  Suffice to say it was not even remotely in the race.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 11:00:15 PM by bhobba »