Author Topic: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba  (Read 22006 times)

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2011, 11:22:13 PM »
dont worry about a different thread (i am a moderator) the wadia you heard is stock nothing like steves wadia or my cd94,bill you have no idea how much difference their is between modded wadia/cd94 and  stock units

Hi Mario

Sorry I didn't reply to this last night - but I missed it for some reason.  Old age and senility I guess.

It is indeed possible some very heavily tweaked transport may surpass the JK as source - no one can really say until a direct comparison is done - which I think will eventually happen as per what Zenelectro said.  But the transports we were using were no slouches and John Kenny has compared it to some pretty expensive stuff as well (from a post John Kenny did in another forum):
'How about a Wadia 850 (highly modified) comparison? http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11408#p11408
Or Lector CD7 comparison http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10564#p10564
Both of these are using the I2S Hiface integrated with a DAC'

To me though that is not the real issue - the real issue is some very experienced ears like Criag Conner don't like it.  If you don't like it then you don't really need to go to more expensive transports.

Thanks
Bill

Bill i have read the comparison between jkdac and lector cd player one uses valve output the other opamps.And they both sound similar?raises a lot of questions about the system they are played on
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Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2011, 11:37:37 PM »
Bill i have read the comparison between jkdac and lector cd player one uses valve output the other opamps.And they both sound similar?raises a lot of questions about the system they are played on
That's one way of interpreting it, I guess but this is the equipment:
Lector CDP7 http://www.lector-audio.com/010.htm
Airtight ATM1s http://www.axissaudio.com/amplifiers/ATM1S.htm
Quad 989 speakers. http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/720/

The system sounds very good using digital or analogue source (can't remember the turntable - it might have bee a Roksan?) so I'm not sure if your analysis is correct! 

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2011, 12:09:35 AM »
Bill i have read the comparison between jkdac and lector cd player one uses valve output the other opamps.And they both sound similar?raises a lot of questions about the system they are played on
That's one way of interpreting it, I guess but this is the equipment:
Lector CDP7 http://www.lector-audio.com/010.htm
Airtight ATM1s http://www.axissaudio.com/amplifiers/ATM1S.htm
Quad 989 speakers. http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/720/

The system sounds very good using digital or analogue source (can't remember the turntable - it might have bee a Roksan?) so I'm not sure if your analysis is correct!  
jkenny nice of you to join in but my system will show the difference between opamp and valve output stage listening in a different room.

photo attached of the airtight amp atm1 (very neat and tidy)
ps:yet to hear a opamp that sounds like music with timbre,tone heart and soul

ps:input selector switch on the amp is not helping it with sq
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 12:15:06 AM by kajak12 »
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Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2011, 12:39:16 AM »
Kajak12, as your sig says, I'm still learning the link between electronics & audio reproduction.
I try not to have preconceptions about anything - tubes, SS, opamps, Vout Dacs, Iout DACs, transformers, capacitors, resistors, etc.

All I can tell you is that the JKDAC & Lector CD7 sounded very similar

As did the JKDAC & modified Wadia 850 played back through another Air Tight tube amplifier (Airtight ATM2) & some high quality French Speakers.

I can't of course, extrapolate this to how it would sound on your system. 

Offline bhobba

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2011, 08:20:41 PM »
Bill i have read the comparison between jkdac and lector cd player one uses valve output the other opamps.And they both sound similar?raises a lot of questions about the system they are played on

As far as I know the JK does not use an op amp output stage - the SABER has a voltage out output and it simply uses that.  One is coming to you guys and you can compare it to your Killer etc etc.  There is zero doubt it won't be up to Killer standard but from what John reports I think there is a good chance it could get rid of the digital glare and other stuff I have heard in Saber DAC's.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:26:03 PM by bhobba »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2011, 08:33:39 PM »
Bill i have read the comparison between jkdac and lector cd player one uses valve output the other opamps.And they both sound similar?raises a lot of questions about the system they are played on

As far as I know the JK does not use an op amp output stage - the SABER has a voltage out output and it simply uses that.  One is coming to you guys and you can compare it to your Killer etc etc.  There is zero doubt it won't be up to Killer standard but from what John reports I think there is a good chance it could get rid of the digital glare and other stuff I have heard in Saber DAC's.

Thanks
Bill
The dac chip has opamps built in bill  so that is nfg for highend but good enough for computer audiophiles :P
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2011, 08:36:08 PM »
Kajak12, as your sig says, I'm still learning the link between electronics & audio reproduction.
I try not to have preconceptions about anything - tubes, SS, opamps, Vout Dacs, Iout DACs, transformers, capacitors, resistors, etc.

All I can tell you is that the JKDAC & Lector CD7 sounded very similar

As did the JKDAC & modified Wadia 850 played back through another Air Tight tube amplifier (Airtight ATM2) & some high quality French Speakers.

I can't of course, extrapolate this to how it would sound on your system.  
Yes i am still learning the link between electronics and audio reproduction but i know one thing opamps are nfg for highend
however you should sell heaps it it priced at a market which is booming on sna
PS:behind every great system i have heard is a great spource its the begining of the chain (besides transport) 
none had opamps in the chain
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Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2011, 08:57:41 PM »
Bill, Vout DACs use their own on-chip output stage but the details & implementation of this on the ES9022 Sabre DAC are not generally known. Who knows how they have implemented it - I have my guesses - but who cares? I have no issues with people experimenting with IV stages, resistors, power supply, caps, etc. - it's all part of the hobby. I'm also interested in listening to music at a level of reproduction that I'm happy with & enjoy. I can say that this implementation doesn't disappoint me.

I can tell Kajak has very set views about some things - CD players good, computer audio bad; current output DACs good, voltage out DACs bad (nfgf for high-end) but I would urge him to search DIY Audio for ES9022 where I introduced it & see what's being said about it. Like him I stated there that I was not expecting much from a test of this Vout DAC but once I ironed out a few noise issues (& implemented a couple of tricks), I was pleasantly surprised (as were some others who have followed in my footsteps). General consensus is that it sounds excellent. Obviously it's not going to be the best DAC ever but I  don't have best amp ever or best speakers ever so .........  
 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 09:00:22 PM by jkeny »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2011, 09:19:24 PM »
Bill, Vout DACs use their own on-chip output stage but the details & implementation of this on the ES9022 Sabre DAC are not generally known. Who knows how they have implemented it - I have my guesses - but who cares? I have no issues with people experimenting with IV stages, resistors, power supply, caps, etc. - it's all part of the hobby. I'm also interested in listening to music at a level of reproduction that I'm happy with & enjoy. I can say that this implementation doesn't disappoint me.

I can tell Kajak has very set views about some things - CD players good, computer audio bad; current output DACs good, voltage out DACs bad (nfgf for high-end) but I would urge him to search DIY Audio for ES9022 where I introduced it & see what's being said about it. Like him I stated there that I was not expecting much from a test of this Vout DAC but once I ironed out a few noise issues (& implemented a couple of tricks), I was pleasantly surprised (as were some others who have followed in my footsteps). General consensus is that it sounds excellent. Obviously it's not going to be the best DAC ever but I  don't have best amp ever or best speakers ever so .........  
 

Search diy for what jkenny so i get reviews from diy audio mob?
Too many number crunches on that site been their with my wav player before waste of time imho
general consensus it sounds excellent so do mp3's for millions of people on our mislead planet
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny
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Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2011, 09:24:30 PM »
..........
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny

Thanks Kajak, I can feel the warmth in your sentiment :D

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2011, 09:30:58 PM »
..........
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny

Thanks Kajak, I can feel the warmth in your sentiment :D
When bill sends one to perth i will run it against a tda1543 dac i have here laying around,both the same price so $$$ is very even playing field.
Post your products here http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0
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Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2011, 09:38:55 PM »


I can tell Kajak has very set views about some things - CD players good, computer audio bad; current output DACs good, voltage out DACs bad (nfgf for high-end) but I would urge him to search DIY Audio for ES9022 where I introduced it & see what's being said about it. Like him I stated there that I was not expecting much from a test of this Vout DAC but once I ironed out a few noise issues (& implemented a couple of tricks), I was pleasantly surprised (as were some others who have followed in my footsteps). General consensus is that it sounds excellent. Obviously it's not going to be the best DAC ever but I  don't have best amp ever or best speakers ever so .........  
 

computer audio bad for my ears it has a artificial sound which pisses me off,its mechanical unnatural low in timbre heart and soul.
When i hear a great computer audio transport i will tell you until then cd spinning all the way for me.
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2011, 09:40:24 PM »
..........
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny

Thanks Kajak, I can feel the warmth in your sentiment :D
When bill sends one to perth i will run it against a tda1543 dac i have here laying around,both the same price so $$$ is very even playing field.
Post your products here http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0


k12, is it a hot rodded TeraDak Chameleon? It should make an interesting comparison, next time perhaps you could compare it to tuyen's dddac?

Cheers,
William
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2011, 09:47:07 PM »
..........
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny

Thanks Kajak, I can feel the warmth in your sentiment :D
When bill sends one to perth i will run it against a tda1543 dac i have here laying around,both the same price so $$$ is very even playing field.
Post your products here http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0


k12, is it a hot rodded TeraDak Chameleon? It should make an interesting comparison, next time perhaps you could compare it to tuyen's dddac?

Cheers,
William
Its actually a jlti tda1543 dac modded very lightly its my mates he uses a killer now so he doesn't care about this dac.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2011, 09:58:49 PM »

I can tell Kajak has very set views about some things -  

Blame all the manufactures that made my products for the last 24 years,which i sold at a loss reading great reviews with 5 star ratings and measurements claiming wonders only to be let down and they still do it.I have woken up now and smelt the roses if your after great sound get a soldering iron to it with some quality parts.
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2011, 10:00:47 PM »
..........
I wish you all the luck with it jkenny

Thanks Kajak, I can feel the warmth in your sentiment :D
When bill sends one to perth i will run it against a tda1543 dac i have here laying around,both the same price so $$$ is very even playing field.
Post your products here http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0


k12, is it a hot rodded TeraDak Chameleon? It should make an interesting comparison, next time perhaps you could compare it to tuyen's dddac?

Cheers,
William
Its actually a jlti tda1543 dac modded very lightly its my mates he uses a killer now so he doesn't care about this dac.

I see, no worries then, nonetheless I look forward to the comparison as I trust your ears.
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2011, 10:27:38 PM »
Blame all the manufactures that made my products for the last 24 years,which i sold at a loss reading great reviews with 5 star ratings and measurements claiming wonders only to be let down and they still do it........
As I said - it'a all about implementation & focus on what's important to the final sound. Choosing the appropriate part for the role & implementing it correctly is more important than the tweaker's mantra of "quality parts".   

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2011, 10:50:54 PM »
Blame all the manufactures that made my products for the last 24 years,which i sold at a loss reading great reviews with 5 star ratings and measurements claiming wonders only to be let down and they still do it........
As I said - it'a all about implementation & focus on what's important to the final sound. Choosing the appropriate part for the role & implementing it correctly is more important than the tweaker's mantra of "quality parts".   
That is why i tweak with quality parts and implement them well so i can focus on the sound.I chose resistors and capacitors with a particular flavour to get the synergy in a given system.sum of all parts

ps:The resistor on the output of a clock (buffer) change it on your jkhiface i am really interested on your feed back.
i have used takman,metal oxide,duelund,allen bradely,kiwame,holco and shinkoh.
I do more then tweak jkenny i tune systems to what people like. I know my parts very well resistors,caps, and wires
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline jkeny

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2011, 11:09:32 PM »
Blame all the manufactures that made my products for the last 24 years,which i sold at a loss reading great reviews with 5 star ratings and measurements claiming wonders only to be let down and they still do it........
As I said - it'a all about implementation & focus on what's important to the final sound. Choosing the appropriate part for the role & implementing it correctly is more important than the tweaker's mantra of "quality parts".  
That is why i tweak with quality parts and implement them well so i can focus on the sound.I chose resistors and capacitors with a particular flavour to get the synergy in a given system.sum of all parts

ps:The resistor on the output of a clock (buffer) change it on your jkhiface i am really interested on your feed back.
i have used takman,metal oxide,duelund,allen bradely,kiwame,holco and shinkoh.
I do more then tweak jkenny i tune systems to what people like. I know my parts very well resistors,caps, and wires

I'm sure you do but I stay away from the "synergy" thing as in all cases that I have encountered it - it means that you are using a component or modification in one part of a system to compensate for a performance problem or shortfall in another part of the system.

I prefer to focus on getting each device itself operating optimally & with as little "flavour" as possible (flavour can be added after, if desired). A neutral system doesn't mean boring, in fact quite the opposite. For instance I have said that digital now sounded like high-end analogue playback when I was documenting my Hiface modifications on DIY Audio-certainly not dull or soulless, in fact organic would be the term that has been used to describe it most often!

Anyway, I find that there fewer surprises when approaching it this way i.e. I can actually judge what a device sounds like in a neutral system rather than try to figure it out in a system modified to suit a particular & specific combination of devices. But if you never want to change your system or you don't mind going through the whole process of tweaking the new system all over again once a new element is introduced, then I guess it's not an issue. I can't be bothered with this - time is too precious!    
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 11:13:25 PM by jkeny »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Killer DAC For Bill Hobba
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2011, 11:27:43 PM »
Blame all the manufactures that made my products for the last 24 years,which i sold at a loss reading great reviews with 5 star ratings and measurements claiming wonders only to be let down and they still do it........
As I said - it'a all about implementation & focus on what's important to the final sound. Choosing the appropriate part for the role & implementing it correctly is more important than the tweaker's mantra of "quality parts".  
That is why i tweak with quality parts and implement them well so i can focus on the sound.I chose resistors and capacitors with a particular flavour to get the synergy in a given system.sum of all parts

ps:The resistor on the output of a clock (buffer) change it on your jkhiface i am really interested on your feed back.
i have used takman,metal oxide,duelund,allen bradely,kiwame,holco and shinkoh.
I do more then tweak jkenny i tune systems to what people like. I know my parts very well resistors,caps, and wires

I'm sure you do but I stay away from the "synergy" thing as in all cases that I have encountered it - it means that you are using a component or modification in one part of a system to compensate for a performance problem or shortfall in another part of the system.

I prefer to focus on getting each device itself operating optimally & with as little "flavour" as possible (flavour can be added after, if desired). A neutral system doesn't mean boring, in fact quite the opposite. For instance I have said that digital now sounded like high-end analogue playback when I was documenting my Hiface modifications on DIY Audio-certainly not dull or soulless, in fact organic would be the term that has been used to describe it most often!

Anyway, I find that there fewer surprises when approaching it this way i.e. I can actually judge what a device sounds like in a neutral system rather than try to figure it out in a system modified to suit a particular & specific combination of devices. But if you never want to change your system or you don't mind going through the whole process of tweaking the new system all over again once a new element is introduced, then I guess it's not an issue. I can't be bothered with this - time is too precious!    
Mr.Kenny my system is made and tuned to sound life like on natural instruments with the limitations of recordings is the major problem we face
Highend analogue playback from jkhiface/jkdac?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 11:56:09 PM by kajak12 »
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time