Author Topic: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)  (Read 11393 times)

tuyen

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Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« on: June 01, 2011, 04:35:03 PM »
This 32-bit dac seems to be getting quite bit of rave reviews around the globe.  Bill, I'm counting on you to get one and possibly lend it around for us to have a listen?  ;D     I'm curious to hear what some of my hi-res music files sound like with a hi-res dac :)

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/249-anedio-d1-dac-ess-sabre-9018

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue53/anedio_dac.htm

Any thoughts on this design?    Or even on the ESS Sabre 9018 chip?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 04:36:41 PM by tuyen »

Offline kajak12

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 10:51:01 PM »
buy it tuyen
looks like a wave player with a dac chip
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline bhobba

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 07:48:59 PM »
This 32-bit dac seems to be getting quite bit of rave reviews around the globe.  Bill, I'm counting on you to get one and possibly lend it around for us to have a listen?  ;D     I'm curious to hear what some of my hi-res music files sound like with a hi-res dac :)
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/249-anedio-d1-dac-ess-sabre-9018
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue53/anedio_dac.htm
Any thoughts on this design?    Or even on the ESS Sabre 9018 chip?

No mate - won't be getting one.  I was thinking about trying another Saber based DAC and the Anedio was on the list.  But I know people who have heard quite a few Saber DAC's and really they are all a variant on same theme - great detail but definitely on the analytical side of things with a cold top end ie similar to my Saber based WFS - which is not my preference these days.  My next DAC will be a Killer once the USB issues are sorted out.  Will be on-selling my WFS soon to partially finance it.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 09:53:05 AM by bhobba »

tuyen

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 09:47:05 PM »
No problems Bill.  I understand your point of view!  :)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 09:52:21 PM by tuyen »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 09:29:51 AM »
But I know people who have heard quite a few Saber DAC's and really they are all a variant on same theme - great detail but definitely on the analitical side of things with a cold top end ie similar to my Saber based WFS - which is not my preference these days.  
I've often wondered what a good hi-res dac chip would sound like, when surrounded by very simple electronics like the Killer is.

The biggest problem with hi-res right now, is the transport side.    IMHO.    

Hi-res discs are played back on DVD type lasers/tray mechanisms, and I'm sceptical about how well these work. I get the feeling that the quality of lasers and readers is just falling by the way side. This is why the legacy CD94 is really hard to top.  That aside....

The better way for hi-res has got to be a HDD based solution.  But again, we're not there yet.   We cant really move on, until we know there is a HDD based solution that sounds at least as good as a CD94 for 16bit files.    If it cant do 16bit at least aswell, then I have no confidence in it's ability and quality for higher bitrates, where significantly more data movement is required.

Once we are confident that a HDD based transport solution is on par with the best CDM-1 spinners, then we can move on to finding the best possible hi-res chip (that can be surrounded with elegantly simple electronics).

Is the JKenny Hiface such a solution?    I dont know.   Mr JKenny has gone quiet on me.  I'm hoping he's just busy, and will get to me later.  

But I get the feeling we are focussing energy on a bandaid solution. All these I2S boards are doing, is cleaning up the digital signal.  It's abit like inbuilt buffering and reclocking in DACs promised to solve our jitter problems.  We've since learned it doesnt. There is nothing better than a clean source for digital data.  

Terry,  if there is an opportunity to be had,  it's nailing this problem.   PC's are designed for a different purpose, and will always be a compromise.  While-ever there is a PC in the picture with it's cheap electronics and lame o/s's, I get the feeling that computer based solutions will always be behind the best quality transports.

SGR are working on a purpose built computer transport for music, which they claim has top quality power supplies, etc.   But I think they're pricing themselves out of the "global" market.   Their pricing will only ever appeal to niche hifi users.  See here; Click

I think affordable streaming solutions like the Squeezebox, is the pricepoint that reaches mass market penetration.  Everyone wants to stream, and to do it as simply as possible,  no clunky pc's to worry about.  This is where it's at.    

So,  what would the market lap up;

* Music files stored on a vanilla storage back end (nas share)
* Simple device that will read the files over a gigabit hardwired network (wifi is ok too, but gigabyte is required for top performance for high bitrates)
* Ability to connect storage by USB for those who dont care for home networks.
* Top class power supply in the simple device, and intelligent power design (eg: ability to run off battery power for critical points).
* Support reading all music type formats, and convert to PCM.  Top class filters required.
* Top class clocks, intelligence to pick the right clock given the incoming sample frequency (as per the exa board)
* Short simple electronics for handling the data
* Outputs; I2S (RJ45), SPDIF (for mass market), USB (for those dacs with USB input) - no compromise design here, there's got to be a way to have SPDIF output, without compromising the I2S output signals. Maybe plugable output modules?
* Output up to 32/384 (nice to have,  24/192 minimum)
* free smart phone app for remote control

Price point goal;  <$300.  Pitched at all music lovers, right up to the top end audiophile systems.  
Recover R&D costs through volume.  Volume target >5,000,000 over 3 years.

Or maybe there is a mass market model with SPDIF @ $300.   And top end model with I2S @ $1000 (sort of like the transporter for SB, but it never really took off - the large scale success was at the cheaper end).  

Memory is so cheap now.  I'm envisaging a device that is caching the data in memory,  to avoid inconsistent network or upstream storage performance impacting the end result.    This is all just taking the Squeezebox concept to the next level.  Slim Devices did well,  but I'm not convinced Logitech has the audio nouse to continue on pursuing audio excellence.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 09:52:49 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline bhobba

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 10:40:26 AM »
Hi Ozmillsy

Cleanliness in the power supplies etc is not the answer from experience up our way.  Kdoot did an interesting post summarizing that experience:

Besides, even a really clean, low-power approach like the Auraliti doesn't come anywhere near the level of sonic performance that a good async isolated USB implementation achieves.  I can say that as somebody who heard the Auraliti soundly beaten by a CD transport - the same kind of CD transport that was shamed by the Audiophilleo and JK I2S HiFace, using the same kind of DAC.

In rough order of priority, some of the essential keys to good digital audio are:
- the DAC, including power supply, digital section and analogue stage
- providing the DAC with an ultra-stable clock
- letting that stable clock control the flow of data from the computer (a la async USB)
- getting correct data from the computer (either bit-perfect or deliberately adjusted with high quality algorithms)
- blocking electrical noise from the USB interface

I wouldn't be too worried about John Kenny being a bit quiet - I am aware of investigations on a number of fronts such as the Edel board to get to the bottom of it.  It will be much clearer a bit further down the track.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 10:46:13 AM by bhobba »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 11:23:59 AM »
Bill,   you're missing my point.    A-sync is only in the picture if there is a PC in the picture.  

I'm proposing that the PC will always be an issue,  regardless whether you're using Async or not - and to take it right OUT of the equation.

Async is not required in a device that is handling the conversion from raw data to audio data.   It's only required after that step,  where you have an audio data stream, and you want to carry it cleanly to the dac.

Collapse the need to carry.   ie: Read the data from vanilla storage, convert it to audio data,  pass the cleanly clocked output to I2S outputs - which are then passed to the DAC.  Do this with no PC.   In this scenario, async functionality is superfluous.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 11:26:06 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline kajak12

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 11:53:49 AM »


In rough order of priority, some of the essential keys to good digital audio are:
- the DAC, including power supply, digital section and analogue stage
- providing the DAC with an ultra-stable clock
- letting that stable clock control the flow of data from the computer (a la async USB)
- getting correct data from the computer (either bit-perfect or deliberately adjusted with high quality algorithms)
- blocking electrical noise from the USB interface

I wouldn't be too worried about John Kenny being a bit quiet - I am aware of investigations on a number of fronts such as the Edel board to get to the bottom of it.  It will be much clearer a bit further down the track.

Thanks
Bill
stuff all the tech l mumbo jumbo they must make music not artificial sound like they all seem to do which some can hear and others can't.

ps:the clocks in the hiface are ordinary also the parts used
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 10:15:00 AM »
The Lampizator Transport is an example of what I mean. 

http://lampizator.eu/szop/szopproducts/LZ-TRANSPORT/Lampizator%20transport.html

Except,  he's incorporated the Squeezebox Touch in total, and surrounded it with his own stuff.     Not a bad approach,  as it saves re-developing what the Squeezebox already does, assuming it does it well enough to begin with.  Lucasz seems to think it does.

He's pricing himself out of a mass market though. 

It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline treblid

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 10:41:16 AM »
I'm proposing that the PC will always be an issue,  regardless whether you're using Async or not - and to take it right OUT of the equation.
For me I always thought the SMPS on the PC is a problem. Turns out it may well be the HDD. Swapped to a SSD and I think things are better (but I cannot be absolutely sure).

Have you tried Linux+XMMS (Use ALSA and configure it to not resample)?

One thing that always bugged me is for some reason I think the above combo plays back 44.1/16 FLAC better. Seems to be more spacious, wide and deep that no other software players can match.

Problem with the above is no media management, and the player can only play 16bit max for FLACs. So ironically it's features are like CD Player as well.. ;(

If possible, can you try that and bitstream that to a DAC and see if it can do 24bit?

Thanks in advance. hee hee...


Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 11:09:16 AM »
I've lost total interest in playing with PC's.    If someone comes up with a bullet proof way to build & configure a PC that performs aswell as a modded CD94 runing I2S,  then I'll sit up and listen.

But I'm not convinced that PC playback will *ever* reach the same performance level.  So, I'm not interested in investing any of my time in PC solutions.

What I *am* interested in,   is ripping apart my Squeezebox,  and modding it for supreme performance.   I like the idea of reading data over the network into memory, and then process it from there - feeding it straight into a DAC.  

So,,,,
- what is the SB doing with clocking, and modding the clocks.  
- Confirm the clock frequency, and ensure what is being fed in is a good match.
- investigate it's power supply, consider any mods to improve power
- pickup I2S signals before the SPDIF circuitry, and pass those I2S signals directly to my DAC.

I'm sure all of these things have been looked at by other DIY modders.    But I reckon this is a better path,  than trying to sort out a PC music server.  

I still plan to try a JKenny Hiface.   If he ever sends me 1.   I have a PC configured and ready to go, so there is no harm to give it a bash.


It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline treblid

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 12:01:17 PM »
I still plan to try a JKenny Hiface.   If he ever sends me 1.   I have a PC configured and ready to go, so there is no harm to give it a bash.
Cool. Let us (me) know how it goes... :)


Offline kajak12

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Re: Anedio D1 DAC (ESS Sabre 9018)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 09:34:51 PM »


I still plan to try a JKenny Hiface.   If he ever sends me 1.   I have a PC configured and ready to go, so there is no harm to give it a bash.
good luck oz i didn't even get a reply via pm
ps:put your money where you mouth is (cd94 vs hiface)
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time