The observations here seem to be very curious. Can you explain in technical terms how copper matures for better sound? How is silk the best dielectric material, and in what applications? Why is teflon or any other plastic rubbish, for insulation? Please provide technical reasons for all of this. No voodoo please!
One mans voodoo is another mans observation and listening experience. If one closes ones mind to possibilities, as you seem to have done given that you seem to be mentally and aurally bound by the "laws of physics" and the "certain immutable laws of physics that bound things" that you refer to a number of times.
Steve and I have similar viewpoints on this I believe.
There is no such thing as an "immutable law of physics"; there is merely a bunch of observational data that seems AT THIS POINT IN TIME WITH OUR CURRENT (LIMITED) UNDERSTANDING to fit what we observe and the mathematics that we find supports these observations.
NOTHING MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These 'immutable laws' seem to keep changing as we get a deeper insight into the world around us.
You seem to write as an engineer or scientist who has been indoctrinated and brainwashed by the education system to blinker their views and follow like a sheep. Entirely your choice if you want to do that but I , for one, and Steve for another, choose not to be so blinkered and accept that perhaps there are electrical phenomenon occurring that we (mankind, audio nuts, you pick your definition of 'we') currently are not aware that we do not understand.
I find it highly amusing that you refer to these immutable laws of physics as being gospel yet the laws change from Newtonian physics to Quantum mechanics to string theory.
And the guys that are at the cutting edge of string theory research seem to be rather strongly of the view that our real understanding of the universe in which we live is pretty damn close to Jack Schitt.
If all of the world around us is purely vibrational energy and the holographic universe is correct then why oh why oh why cannot a shatki stone have an effect on the noise spewing forth from a DAC for example???
Give me a good scientific reason (not limited by your current understanding of how energy works but incorporating the holographic model) why a device that is designed as what appears to be a sink for spurious emr cannot have an effect on a device (dac say) wherein emr is one of the gremlins we all fight with to achieve good sound. If emr were not an issue then pcb layout, grounding etc would be of no relevance.
Have I ever heard these widgets? No, but I will not dismiss them out-of-hand because YOUR laws of physics as you understand or interpret them suggest to you that such a widget CANNOT work.
I generally do think outside the box when dealing with issues not involving the laws of physics and well established principles of electrical engineering. So, I guess that you would also believe that things like Shakti Stones, Brilliant Little Pebbles, the Harmonizer, painting cd edges green and Hallographs alter sound. I guess that if someone claimed that putting coprolites near electrical devices or transducers somehow improved the sound, you would credit that these things actually affect the sound, even though there is no scientific evidence that would support these claims. The simple answer is that it is probably psychoacoustics at work. I do not believe that these wonder products have any merit, except for making money for their sellers.
As a dielectric, silk is not a good choice for high voltages. I am aware of the claims that the best dielectric for interconnects and speaker cables is air. I have made interconnects with both copper and silver wire sheathed in unbleached cotton weave. I heard no difference in teflon insulation tight to copper and silver. Admittedly, after only 40 years of mucking about with audio stuff I have a lot to learn, but there is simply no scientific repeatable evidence that a dielectric with the same withstand as air is better. This is especially true in shot runs, such as hookup wire and interconnects. While on this topic, I cannot imagine how buying cable lifters for speaker wires to keep them off the floor does anything but empty the pockets of the gullible and line the pockets of the marketeers. If you really believe this dielectric phenomena, then better to loosely sheath naked wire in a flexible teflon tube. At least it will be electircally well insulated and have plenty of air.
As to wire maturing, there is no scientific proof of this effect. It could be a lot of things, including the old enemy psychoacoustics. When you suggest that while the wire is lazily relaxing, maybe on the beach in the Riviera, its structure is changing. I guess it is entropy at the subatomic level? Is wire like wine, where it reaches its fullest maturation and then becomes increasingly more unpleasant? How long does this maturing process take to have the best effect on sound? One day, year, decade, millenia, eon after the wire is drawn or cast? I guess you are suggesting the principle of entropy at play here with accelerated effect. I would suggest that in 80 or 800 years, that wire would not change significantly, especially in the short runs we are talking about here, so as to have any effect on sound quality. One can suspend disbelief, but not suspend the laws of physics. As you can see, I do not believe in burning in wires. There is no proof that running small currents through wire does anything to change its structure or electrical properties. Cryogenics is different in that there are changes at the molecular level. Whether these changes have any impact on the sound quality of wire and tubes is deabatable, at best. So I guess you posit that anything that is older is better, as it has aged. Accordingly, one should use old transformers, wire, solder, lugs and spades, tube sockets, tubes, RCA connectors and speaker terminals. Is this maturation effect only for copper wire, or is it applicable to all metals?
How something sounds does involve a degree of subjectivism. However, there are certain immutable laws of physics that bound things. To me, the claims of mature wire and air dielectric in short runs of wire making a sonic difference, discernable to the best of listeners, are outside the bounds of reality. So far, there is nothiing presented here that would convince me there is reason to believe otherwise.
Last highlight first.
Steve and I went down to OzMillsy's place to have a listen to his radford amp. Ozmillsy was not 100% happy with what it was doing. Steve asked Millsy what was missing and after being described to him he had an aha moment and thought he had just the ticket to fix er up.
So down the hill we went, had a listen, and Steve did some surgery and a listening we went.
The change for the better was quite amazing and after I drilled Steve for information he advised me and Millsy that he had inserted 3 or 4 ( I don't remember 100%) pieces approx 1-2cm long of one of his super-special wires that he uses in his Type 50 amps.
According to your theory 2-3cm of wire could make zero to imperceptible difference but the change was most profound in liquidity, flow and engagement.
after hearing that I prodded Steve endlessly that weekend until he gave me some scraps of said wire to put in my amp and the change in my valve amp was of the same character as the Radford.
All up I put 4 pieces approx 1/2 to 3/4 inch long in my amp. The improvement was noticed by all the folks that have heard it since. Must be our good friend Palcebo hey.
And please save me the Double-Blind crap. When one is developing cables, upgrades for components, etc etc it is in ones own best interest to be harshly and ruthlessly critical of ones observations. Kidding yourself gets you nowhere really rapidly.
Back to the beginning of the highlights:
Painting CD edges green it appears can have an effect. Alters the reflection off the edge of the disc of the stray/scattered laser light altering the accuracy of reading edge transitions in the CD.
A hallograph appears to be purely a resonant device. As to it effect, I have no idea, never tried them. Do have a d combination of diffusion/absorbtion on my back wall which significantly alters the soundstaging in all dimensions.
Prove to me that Silk is not a good dielectric at high voltages. It may not be a good insulator but that is not what you have said.
If you heard no difference in teflon insulation tight to copper and silver then I suggest you need to get out more. I made exactly this change in my amp and the difference was most significant. I had a colleague with many decades of experience who I have been helping in testing some cables for him who came over after I had made this change in the dielectric and he was quite astonished at the change in system presentation (for the better all around)...before I even told him I had made a change or what it was.
My cable lifters consist of slices of a pool noodle with a V-Groove cut into the top of them. About $2 for 20.
They lift the cable away from carpet which is often not a great dielectric and they also lift the cable above the ground plane of the steel-reinforced concrete slab allowing the electric field to form more evenly around the cable.\
Scientific proof of wire maturing??? What exactly do you want please. Dfine exactly what measurements or scientific 'proof' will 'prove' that the wire has matured. Kindof tricky isn't it.
I dont use silver and stainless steel makes a great cutlery,
ps:You seem to ask questions but not answer a simple question like can you hear a difference between silver wire or copper wire?
I thought I was clear when I said that I preferred silver in cutlery. It makes no difference in the system. I do not believe that decent wire with proper connectors makes any difference, unless the system has some anomalies, like mismatch in impedances, or the like. So that answers your one question? How about having a go at some of mine in this thread? How old is old enough, for copper wire, for example?
So why in EVERY system I have ever played with do cables make a very significant difference??
And these have been from a few thousand to over a million, vinyl, digital, tape whatever.
Has every system been that flawed that the cables are fixing some nature of flaw or incompatibility at every point of interconnection?
If so you may want to contact some of the most respected brands and designers in the hifi world and tell them that they are all idiots and are selling 'flawed' or 'faulty' gear.
How old is old enough??
Honestly I cannot give any inkling of an answer to this but I experience regularly first-hand what Steve is talking about with regards to effect of old wire and old components such as chokes and transformers.
I do agree with some of the above. But getting back to the OP, I was challenging and still challenge the assertions made, especially about maturing of copper and its effect on sound. Frankly, I have not read or heard anything about that before so it is rather novel. It also doesn't make any sense and is highly dubious. I have never spoken about this brand or that, but the effects of this mature wire and wire in general. Why should there be any ego involved in that?
I think that I gave a rather lengthy description of my equipment before but I do not mind summarizing again, to the extent it is relevant, which I doubt. The horn system is bass in an Artec Onken horn design with two JBL 150-4s, for midrange a Vitavox S5 with Vitavox horn and for tweeter at the moment a Fostex T-900A. Active crossover is a Pioneer D23, amps are 300b with permalloy outputs, KT90 PP, Sun 2A3, 845 SET, Class A Krell50 clone built from kit, Aikido preamp, switchable DHT preamp for 26, 01A or 12A DHT with vintage (ugh) UTC HA-133 line to plate transformers, SB3 slaved to Empiircal Audio Pace-Car II, feeding i2s to an Aya II with double crown, a TDA1541A dac from a Chinese kit with tube analogue stage (not push pull), AN Dac clone with AD1865 with SS analogue stage, modded Lite 60 with the crappy PP anlogue stage removed for Sowter transformers and turntables, SUTs, Piccolo headamp, Aikido phono and a D3A phono with 5687 gyrator outputs, all tube regulated power supplies. Cables and cords mixes of DIY silver, silver tinned copper and copper, Kimber, Blue Jeans Belden and some other stuff. Another system running modified ASL Hurricanes with KT88 PP, Vcaps and Mundorfs driving B&W 803Ds. In the storeroom various horn drivers, RAAL ribbons, Peerless drivers, NAD sand amp, Sony TA-2000F and bunches of other junk to experiment with. What that tells anyone, I am not sure. I would say the systems are pretty resolving. Oh yeah, stashes of all kinds of tubes squirreled away with some oddballs like 6f8g used in place of 6sn7s with a stash of Tungsol roundplates and many other brands and 7N7s too. There is it is for what it is worth. Fun for some equipment worshippers I suppose.
My belief in audio is just get on with it so long as it does not commit a murder. Music likes are eclectic and run from classical to rock to world music, Brazilian, Indian, Jazz and so on. Beliefs in religion probably should not be challenged, but beliefs in audio, without any support, technical or otherwise, and based on the theory of golden ears or I can hear it, should be challenged. What better place to do this than on an audio forum?
You prefer silver as cutlery but you use it in your system. Is that because you cannot hear any difference???
Mario can. I can. Steve can.
And I have to say that when I read the gear you use that does indeed surrpise me no end. You seem to have a lovely collection of equipment with which to play with.
Steve and I have the same view on a number of things.
First and foremost is that there is no such thing as an 'accurate' component, capacitor, piece of wire, cable, speaker yadda yadda and that building a system is most definitely a case of adding a plethora of distortions and colourations together to achieve a result that sounds as much as we can like live music.
'Accurate' is a bunch of crap to be blunt (oh yeah, sorry...IMHO of course)
ALL!!!!!! of the new state-of-the-art "Accurate" Hifi systems that I experience are as bland and boring and un-engaging as Bat S__t.
The very best systems that I have experienced interestingly enough have all utilised a pretty decent spattering of vintage parts. Yuk you said. Who cares say I as long as they sound great.
Cheers
Rawl