General HIFI > Other DACs
DDDAC-DSD
rhlauranna:
well, I am rather sure that there is "more" to come in the future, so let me move this from DSD-recommendations to this place here:
"Quote from: rhlauranna on January 11, 2015, 03:36:02 AM
...while we are waiting for Doede to come out with his DDDAC-DSD.
Hi R,
Would you please share inside progress on this? I really keen Getting my hand on one!
Chanh"
Well, this is a question that you should ask Doede directly... I hardly know anything… and yes, on the contrary I encourage you not to ask Doede because he hardly has ever any time, and the more he gets kept off the smaller becomes the time frame he has at his disposal for research…
What I can say is, that we are long time going pregnant with the idea of having/getting a DDDAC-DSD, and wherever flying around the globe it is already long time cooking in Doede’s head regarding that matter…
But, as I told already elsewhere, it is quite a different thing whether only ever “dreaming” of something and barking around how “bad” or “disappointing” other (DSD-)DACs are and what they all do (wrong) and to develop a DSD-DAC on its own with that know-how in engineering technology that is necessary to solve the problem on this highest level and adequately “handle” the data that way that we are now generally used to (and which are still not yet finished) with the DDDAC1543 and DDDAC1792…
believe me, more than two years ago I was the one to urge Doede to develop such a thing… initially the motivation for him to do so was rather restricted, but regarding all these dramatic positive results in reproduction reached so far with the other DDDACs in the meantime, he more and more faced the solution of this task… and at the beginning of last year we thought (Doede thought) perhaps having some prototype for initial tests ready for around Christmas last year…
…but as it turned out DSD is still another level in highest end engineering, an even much higher level (I cannot “judge” this personally, I can only listen to what I am told)… to bring it “really” to the point, the problem is not to build just a “simple” DSD-DAC, to build one at all, but to build one on exactly that level of the two other DDDAC1543 and DDDAC1792… much more genius has to be put into developing and the whole affair is much more time consuming as initially expected…
so, there is by no means anything “ready” yet… the only thing that I can tell, is, that I am waiting as urgently as any other one interested, and that, when it will be ready, the initial tests will be held here on my system… why ? well, I told already, I know of no system on the globe – so far – that would be able to fully reveal the true capabilities of the qualities of the different Doede DACs (think of the 500 horse powers of Formula I to bring onto the road without squeaking)…
… and my intention is to get Jean Hiraga and his long time editor here together to hopefully initiate some sort of “qualified” test and report regarding that matter…
I am deeply convinced, that the process that is fulfilling here during the last years and the ones to come, is not only hobby, it is much more, it is HiFi-history in the making… and I am very proud to be part of it..
The only “problem” is that everything regarding DDDAC-DSD is still in an embryonic phase, but it is to come…
Chanh:
Many thanks R for the post. As always, your answers are in depth and details.
There were much discussions of DSD DAC from Doede. He has let the cat out back last year, 2014, was saying to watch out for something new in 2015.
I wish not bombard him with email about DSD, he is probably overhemimgly recieved many emails from others'....!
Please keep us posted if anyone of you out there aware of any new development wrt Doede DSD?
Cheers,
Chanh
rhlauranna:
so, finally here is news regarding the DDDAC-DSD... last weekend Doede revealed his first basic DDDAC-DSD prototype obviously still with some minor noise issues at Utrecht in his Mother Country to the public for a first listening impression...
if you want to get more in detail. please feel free to have a look over at the DIY-site...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-411.html
let me just put together some infos and pictures from over there and add the ones that I got already from Doede some time ago, so that those who are interested may have a look as well at the technical side...
is there anybody able to distinguish this digital signal without any "viewable" digital stairs from a measured analogue one ?
and as always - for me - one of the best indicators to "see" how things are working, and as to be expected from Doede as close to perfection as it gets:
I am just wondering: contrarily to the "different" results regarding all the "different" kinds of tweaking the "different" DDDAC1794...
#4103
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-411.html
"Throughout the afternoon it became quite apparent that different people liked different thing in the Sound signature, and we all agreed that that one of the beauties of audio DIY’ing in that sound could be tailored to individual preferences."
for more information see here:
#371
http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php/topic,842.360.html Reply
...the listening impressions of all the participants regarding the new DDDAC-DSD were unexpectedly as superbly unified as I hardly have ever read when being tested...
let me just quote... dwjames #4111
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-412.html
"Great to see the potential for DSD to really offer something special, and really cool to see the innovative solution planned. I hadn't paid DSD much attention before, but now I'm interested"
and Supersurfer #4110
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-411.html
"The big surprise for me was the DSD dac proto. This complete discrete design was intriguing, first thing we all were looking for was the DAC chip; but there was no DAC ship
This is a very cool and novel design!
[...]
This DAC sounded like no other source I have ever heard; so extremely open, transparant and detailed! This is VERY promising for things to come!"
and stijn001, #4103
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-411.html
"So then the discrete DSD prototype/breadboard, with it’s “antenna’s”, was up. Doede had already warned us that there were still some noise issues. After he’d switched it on, this were instantly noticeable but not that intrusive, something like minus (+/-) 70dB high feq. white noise, nothing to nasty. I will not try to explain why what and how, as Doede will undoubtable do this when the time comes, if this dac makes it into the real world (I do hope so) . However when the music started, everybody in the room looked at each other surprised and in awe. By this time we were pretty tuned in to Stefan’s set-up, but this sounded very different & very special. There was an instant revelation of dynamics and space and the bass was so heavy and defined, almost as if the linearity wasn’t there anymore. Was this what it was supposed to sound like.., ok, right!? Quite the eye-opener and a great prospect of things to come."
ozmillsy:
I have said it elsewhere on this forum, but perhaps the next step in dac evolution, is to develop a chipless dac.
This isnt ground breaking (others have done it), but I dont know if anyone has realised the full potential of this approach ??
I am very pleased to see this development happening, and to read that doede is pursuing the chipless dac.
Please keep us posted as this unfolds.
ozmillsy:
BTW, HF noise is a known by product of the DSD format, and DSD dac manufacturers generally filter it out. Our DSD software converters also filter.
I've always felt this was the ironic part of hi res dsd. A big justification of the format is the ability to store high frequencies, but on playback they're filtered out anyway.
This is a simplistic view, but still, gotta love the irony.
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