Author Topic: Jupiter copper foil capacitor  (Read 10669 times)

Offline brenden

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2015, 09:51:04 AM »
Also, if you slide the cotton coated wire inside a teflon tube you can have piece of mind with higher  voltages  and sound quality   benefits of the waxed cotton . 

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2015, 12:46:33 PM »
Cool Terry, thanks for checking.  Only have enough to make 1 pair of IC's, and see how it sounds.  Not intending to use it inside the dac or amp.
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2015, 11:04:46 PM »
I scored 4 / 0.47 Copper, from sonic craft.  I will run them against the VSF. $1000 worth of caps for the leak was really over the top. $70 each seems more sensible, but do they cut it.
Well the Jupiter Copper Foil 0.47uF 600VDC capacitors have some great characteristics, including Transparency, speed, detail, they are also fairly open and extended. The weakness, they are a little lean, bright, and white, also they don't have the duelunds lovely lower midrange weight, warmth and energy, they lacked a little timbrel character. I feel that the Jupiters weaknesses stem from the use of the silver lead-out wires, sure these leads will give you clean transparency, but at what cost. Unfortunately most capacitor makers seem to be going down the silver route. They did many things better than the Duelund Copper Foil 0.47uF VSF, but at the end of the day the duelunds had more involvement weight and natural timbre.

There is a caveat, Jupiter sent me an email. quote
The caps are non polar, but to use the outside foil as a shield connect it to the lower impedance side of the circuit.
Chris Young
Jupiter Condenser.
 
Craig has listened to the Jupiter capacitors and feels they sound just superb, but only when they are installed in the right direction, if they are not set in the right direction they will sound ordinary. They are marked with a stripe but that mark is sometimes wrong and reversed in manufacture, despite what the manufacturer says, unless you can measure them it's hard to know if they are the right way around. I used 4 and that allows for a multitude of wrong combinations. I will send mine to Craig to get the right orientation and listen again.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 07:58:25 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 07:41:58 AM »
I ordered some of the older version, which have copper leads.    But aluminium foil with beeswax used inside.    :-X

Could be ordinary, but what would we do, if we didnt try new things.  ???

Lets hope the older version isnt any good, they dont make 'em anymore.  :'(

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-vintage-cu-lead-047uf-600vdc-p-4516
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 07:51:05 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2015, 08:11:07 PM »
Well the Jupiter Copper Foil 0.47uF 600VDC capacitors have some great characteristics, including Transparency, speed, detail, they are also fairly open and extended. The weakness, they are a little lean, bright, and white, also they don't have the duelunds lovely lower midrange weight, warmth and energy, they lacked a little timbrel character. I feel that the Jupiters weaknesses stem from the use of the silver lead-out wires, sure these leads will give you clean transparency, but at what cost. Unfortunately most capacitor makers seem to be going down the silver route. They did many things better than the Duelund Copper Foil 0.47uF VSF, but at the end of the day the duelunds had more involvement weight and natural timbre.

There is a caveat, Jupiter sent me an email. quote
The caps are non polar, but to use the outside foil as a shield connect it to the lower impedance side of the circuit.
Chris Young
Jupiter Condenser.
 
Craig has listened to the Jupiter capacitors and feels they sound just superb, but only when they are installed in the right direction, if they are not set in the right direction they will sound ordinary. They are marked with a stripe but that mark is sometimes wrong and reversed in manufacture, despite what the manufacturer says, unless you can measure them it's hard to know if they are the right way around. I used 4 and that allows for a multitude of wrong combinations. I will send mine to Craig to get the right orientation and listen again.
I cannot stress enough, when i used these 4 Jupiter Copper Foil 0.47uF 600VDC capacitors, almost certainly some if not all would not have been set in the correct orientation, this means a lot (sound wise) according to Jupiter copper users.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 08:19:15 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2015, 06:19:14 PM »
Hi Guys I am considering these to replace the 2.2mfd 450v  in my Audiocentric.

Also wondering if I can use a 0.47uf.

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-copper-foil-22uf-600vdc-p-4680


I will post a bit more about this DAC very soon as it is being fed i2s via a very special transport that has just come back from Terry complete with his clock!

Cheers
Matt

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2015, 10:10:53 PM »
Hi Guys I am considering these to replace the 2.2mfd 450v  in my Audiocentric.

Also wondering if I can use a 0.47uf.

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-copper-foil-22uf-600vdc-p-4680


I will post a bit more about this DAC very soon as it is being fed i2s via a very special transport that has just come back from Terry.

Cheers
Matt

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2015, 10:25:44 PM »
Hi Guys I am considering these to replace the 2.2mfd 450v  in my Audiocentric.

Also wondering if I can use a 0.47uf.

http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-copper-foil-22uf-600vdc-p-4680


I will post a bit more about this DAC very soon as it is being fed i2s via a very special transport that has just come back from Terry complete with his clock!

Cheers
Matt
The bigger Jupiter Copper Foil caps are not cheap, as they get bigger in uF, the price skyrockets.

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2015, 11:21:38 PM »
Hi Steve they are $156 each.
They would be replacing Auricaps in a fairly standard Audiocentric of the same values

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2015, 03:06:04 AM »
Hi Steve they are $156 each.
They would be replacing Auricaps in a fairly standard Audiocentric of the same values
Matt I have 4 Jupiter copper foil capacitors 0.47 just running them in now.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2015, 04:11:09 AM »
Matt, I would also consider mundorf silver gold in oil caps, their top of line. I am currently running the silver in oil, next level down in my enterprise dac and it sounds very good. I believe the golds are a step up in naturalness. The sgo 2.2uf are $100 from sound labs., so you can even go up to 2.7 or 3.3. I currently have some 2.2 duelunds here but not got around to comparing these to mundorfs as the duelunds seem to be current reference. I'll expand later. Cheers, Terry

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2015, 01:58:59 PM »
Matt I have 4 Jupiter copper foil capacitors 0.47 just running them in now.

Steve, do you think there would be any issues in using them in place of a 2.2uf 450v?


The Mundorf's look in
Matt, I would also consider mundorf silver gold in oil caps, their top of line. I am currently running the silver in oil, next level down in my enterprise dac and it sounds very good. I believe the golds are a step up in naturalness. The sgo 2.2uf are $100 from sound labs., so you can even go up to 2.7 or 3.3. I currently have some 2.2 duelunds here but not got around to comparing these to mundorfs as the duelunds seem to be current reference. I'll expand later. Cheers, Terry

The Mundorf's look interesting Terry and the price is certainly right.

I might start a new thread on my DAC and post pics.

Offline data

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2015, 10:47:04 AM »
I'm not good with sound descriptions, but I have been listening to a pair of Jupiters in my phono, played about 65 LPs so far with them in. They are very nice caps, but my personal preference is still for the bass and mids of the Duelund Cu VSF's i had in there previously. Bass notes weren't as tight but had more layering of tones and texture, the mids were I feel a little sweeter/more seductive with female vocals. There may have been more weight to the VSF presentation too.

Still happy with the Jupiter, they are rich and detailed and have a nice depth to the sound stage....some will possibly prefer the tighter bass of the Jupiter caps....I just preferred some aspects of the VSF's.

Offline rawl99

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2015, 01:40:44 PM »
Steve, do you think there would be any issues in using them in place of a 2.2uf 450v?



The Mundorf's look in
The Mundorf's look interesting Terry and the price is certainly right.

I might start a new thread on my DAC and post pics.

Matt,
The problem with running 0.47 is that it will raise the low frequency crossover point a substantial amount.  I have not done he calls as to what the HP freq is with the 2.2 but given that the 2.2 sounds different to a 2.7 I would estimate the lower 3dB point may be in the 5hz-10hz region.
Changing it to 0.47 would lift this by a factor of approx 5. 
Ie could lift it to somewhere in the 25-50 Hz region substantially impacting the low freq performance.

Craig

Ps let me know if you have NFI. What I am talking about and and I will elaborate further.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2015, 04:22:44 PM »
Matt,
The problem with running 0.47 is that it will raise the low frequency crossover point a substantial amount.  I have not done he calls as to what the HP freq is with the 2.2 but given that the 2.2 sounds different to a 2.7 I would estimate the lower 3dB point may be in the 5hz-10hz region.
Changing it to 0.47 would lift this by a factor of approx 5. 
Ie could lift it to somewhere in the 25-50 Hz region substantially impacting the low freq performance.

Craig

Ps let me know if you have NFI. What I am talking about and and I will elaborate further.

Ditto.

Just to add, in pro audio they generally allow 10 x factor for low frequency cut off point.

For example if a certain product is designed with intent to pass at least to say 20Hz, a LF corner point of 2Hz will be used.

The reason is a/ upward shift of LF point from multiple devices connectivity and b/ Phase shift errors.

For a/ If you have 3 devices connected all with a LF corner point of 20Hz, then resultant LF corner point will be more like 40Hz.
For b/ If the devices are single order LF cutoff design, ie; RC like Killer/ tube DAC then there is phase distortion. The cure is make the LF cut off point much lower
than required.

So getting back to the DAC 2.2uF cap, first question is what is the DAC driving? Typically a tube amp will have something like a 100k IP resistance. At 100k / 2.2uF
LF corner point is 0.7Hz. That is pretty good and easily allows for the 10:1 factor.

You could get away with 0.47uF if the IP resistance of amplifier is 470k or more. This would give the same 0.7Hz CF.
You could probably get away with 220k IP resistance, that would raise the CF up to 1.5 Hz, still very low, but I think
a listening test would be in order to see actually how much difference 470 versus 220 makes. You might be
surprised.

So yes you can use 0.47uF but the amp you are driving should have a suitably high IP resistance.

cheers

T

Offline brenden

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2015, 07:55:16 PM »
Hi Zen .
         That's basically the information I found when I was looking for a cap to go in my 94 .

   My Stax CA-X is full FET . I don't know the input resistance . There is very little information on this preamp ,so  I assumed it would be around 100k or more being FET  .

   Is there a way to measure the input resistance accurately ?  Hope this is not a dumb question ,but not really clued up on this ,coming from a non technical background .

   I am using a 2.2 Duelund  ,after doing  a rough calculation ,and also have a 3.3uf  to try .

  I didn't notice any discernible difference in the bass depth .

  Anyway the Duelunds sound superb while  still burning in  . I am certainly hearing the influences of the Duelunds from when I heard Steves system .

 

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Jupiter copper foil capacitor
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2015, 12:34:34 AM »
Hi Zen .
         That's basically the information I found when I was looking for a cap to go in my 94 .

   My Stax CA-X is full FET . I don't know the input resistance . There is very little information on this preamp ,so  I assumed it would be around 100k or more being FET  .

   Is there a way to measure the input resistance accurately ?  Hope this is not a dumb question ,but not really clued up on this ,coming from a non technical background .

   I am using a 2.2 Duelund  ,after doing  a rough calculation ,and also have a 3.3uf  to try .

  I didn't notice any discernible difference in the bass depth .

  Anyway the Duelunds sound superb while  still burning in  . I am certainly hearing the influences of the Duelunds from when I heard Steves system .

 


You can generally just measure it at the IP terminals with a meter. Disconnect the preamp from amplifier.

With fets you can easily have a 1M ohm IP resistance. Products like Ayre that use all fet IP circuits now
generally have 1M IP resistance as the designer feels they sound better as such.


T