Author Topic: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC  (Read 15138 times)

Offline matt200sr

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Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« on: September 14, 2015, 03:15:36 PM »
Hi Guys,

It's been a long wait but Terry has delivered excellence in this modifying this CD94.

Gentleman behold... Marantzenelectro  ;D

That's the last time I'll refer to as Marantzelelectro as it's such a mouthful.  :o

Now aside from the usual tuneup and tweaks as well as fitting the Oscon's the Craig and Steve sent through (Craig you must invoice me for them) Terry has fitted and tuned his Zenclock and i2S reclocking board. Terry has made things super easy by making the receptical that facilitates the connection between battery and clock, also facilitate the charging of the battery. A toggle switch next to the receptical on the rear of the Marantz switches the clock on/off. Super easy for a dunce like me!

Well I got back from work Friday night and after a few family commitments were seen to I blew the dust of the Audiocentric and started planning. Now I should say that a couple of years ago I made a BIIIG mistake. Craig actually built me a Killerdac once. I waited patiently for over a year for it to arrive and pestered poor Craig often as to any developments and when it finally arrived I was ecstatic! I fed i2s via an old Offramp 4 converter/Macbook front end and I just loved it. Months went by... only 7 or 8 from memory and then I did something silly. I decided to sell my entire system as I took a career opportunity overseas. My original intention was to keep the KillerDAC however in a moment of stupidity I spoke with YoungMC who lives close to me and offered it to him. At the time I thought I was done with HiFi for a while and I could concentrate on work. Simon was rapped with Craig's creation and I suddenly felt racked with guilt as I recalled those times I pestered Craig to get it finished!

It seems like an age ago but only a couple of years have passed I found myself living back in WA and Terry still working through development of the Marantz which I had previously sent him so... when this Audiocentric came up  for sale on SNA I jumped. Steve M owned this one and sold it to adrock's whom sold it to me. I think, and I am not sure but Steve M bout it from someone from this forum but I cannot be sure.

Back to the transport... Terry schooled me up on the best i2s connection to make from the BNC outputs he fitted on the transport and I got to work. I also fitted new ETI rca output sockets and cleaned up the dac in general. removed SPDIF connection and wiring from the DAC board. Dammit only one channel working! It was 11pm so I went to bed and was up at 5am the next day, re-soldered the socket on the offending channel and hooray music!

Span a few discs and instantly much more enjoyable than my other digital transport/dac. Just love it and really makes the DAC shine well ahead of feeding it a digital signal via SPDIF from an Oppo 105. The extra engagement that the transport provides is very addictive! Thank you Terry.

Now I am hooked! I want to get more out of this DAC and only have a basic idea how.  See below for pics.




« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 03:24:36 PM by matt200sr »

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 03:18:04 PM »

Audiocentric


Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 03:18:36 PM »
More Audiocentric



Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2015, 09:02:41 PM »
how deep are your pockets?
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 09:32:23 PM »
Hi Mario

Fairly shallow to be honest but happy to fork out for output caps and anything else that might bring big gains.

I would like to grab any low hanging fruit so to speak.

Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2015, 09:53:44 PM »
Hi Mario

Fairly shallow to be honest but happy to fork out for output caps and anything else that might bring big gains.

I would like to grab any low hanging fruit so to speak.
ask zen to intall tube rectification 
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 10:10:40 PM »
It's tricky to know where to best spend money on the Audiocentric - there's a lot that needs doing.

Here are a few things that will help. 

1/ OP caps are worth changing, I'd probably go for Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold in oil. I'm sure they are not quite as good as Duelunds but for $100 each...
2/ The 14 x bit decoupling caps on AC DAC (where it says 7 x 100n) look like electrolytics. Use film caps - very important
3/ Tube rectifier for tube power supply
4/ Better chokes make a big difference
5/ Main tube HT supply caps

With my Enterprise DAC, I started from ground up and just changed everything from Audiocentric design.
There are still more things to do when time / budget allows but with your transport driving it the sound was pretty damn good.
 
cheers

T

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2015, 10:19:19 PM »
Hi Terry,

Thanks mate.  The othere caps on the dac board look like electrolytics too, any harm in replacing those?

The Ht caps on the OP board are they the big caps adjacent to each other?

How important to use the same values when replacing caps?

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 11:07:32 PM »
Just browsing for PCB risers to replace blutak, dowel and my foam support and seems at most are only obtainable in packs of no less than 100!

I only need 8!

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 02:22:18 PM »
Matt,

Oscon caps are electrolyitc. They are not really the right cap to use for the 14 x bit decoupling caps on TDA1541.
These must be be film caps and physically small, mounted right next to DAC chip.

You can use Oscons for DAC PS decoupling but I would take Marios advice, use film caps.  That's what I have done.
The Solens work well but I have used small size and mount them close to DAC.

cheers

Terry


Hi Terry,

The DAC PS decoupling caps are they the four caps on the DAC PS board?

Anywhere else I can use 'em as I have bought a shed load :)

So I will try to find 14 of the Solen 47uf film caps for the 14 x bit decoupling caps.

Thanks for the help Terry :)

Also on the hunt for Main tube HT supply caps (have no ideaof values as they have been skinned)

I will order some of the Mundorf SGO's Terry unless you want to sell me your Duelund 2.2uf's :)


Offline brenden

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 06:46:21 PM »
Hi Matt the 14 bit decoupling caps are normally 0.1 uf.  I tried different sizes but preferred roughly  0.1
   47uf  may be a typo is it  ?

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2015, 12:17:30 PM »
Hi Matt the 14 bit decoupling caps are normally 0.1 uf.  I tried different sizes but preferred roughly  0.1
   47uf  may be a typo is it  ?

Brendon thanks, 100u same thing? yeah?

Offline brenden

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2015, 04:20:36 PM »
You probably mean 100n Matt,   which is 100 nano farads .this is also equivalent  to .01 uf  .It can be confusing with all the zeros . :)

 By the way ,I did the BG exercise  around the TDA1541a on a 94 mk2 about 15 years ago
   It was smooth but there was a lack of life in the .music .the top end was too polite and rolled off .

  The 94  mk2 has 28 decoupling caps so is both a bit  expensive and tedious .

   
   

 

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2015, 07:48:31 PM »
You probably mean 100n Matt,   which is 100 nano farads .this is also equivalent  to .01 uf  .It can be confusing with all the zeros . :)

 By the way ,I did the BG exercise  around the TDA1541a on a 94 mk2 about 15 years ago
   It was smooth but there was a lack of life in the .music .the top end was too polite and rolled off .

  The 94  mk2 has 28 decoupling caps so is both a bit  expensive and tedious .


100 nF = 0.1uF



Offline zenelectro

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2015, 07:59:09 PM »

Hi Terry,

The DAC PS decoupling caps are they the four caps on the DAC PS board?

Anywhere else I can use 'em as I have bought a shed load :)


Are you referring to Oscons? What uF and Volts? You can use them elsewhere.

Quote

So I will try to find 14 of the Solen 47uf film caps for the 14 x bit decoupling caps.

Thanks for the help Terry :)


Solens are too big for 14 x bit decouple caps. These need to be physically small and right next to DAC.

Quote

Also on the hunt for Main tube HT supply caps (have no ideaof values as they have been skinned)

I will order some of the Mundorf SGO's Terry unless you want to sell me your Duelund 2.2uf's :)

The Duelunds are not mine they are in a PDX DAC that is being upgraded.

I think you should sit down and think through / cost an upgrade plan before going crazy buying stuff.

cheers

Terry

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2015, 08:02:06 PM »
You probably mean 100n Matt,   which is 100 nano farads .this is also equivalent  to .01 uf  .It can be confusing with all the zeros . :)

 By the way ,I did the BG exercise  around the TDA1541a on a 94 mk2 about 15 years ago
   It was smooth but there was a lack of life in the .music .the top end was too polite and rolled off .

  The 94  mk2 has 28 decoupling caps so is both a bit  expensive and tedious .



OK got it small little buggers, can you explain what you have done Brenden??




Thanks Terry - PCB does say 100n tho


100 nF = 0.1uF





Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2015, 08:08:07 PM »


I think you should sit down and think through / cost an upgrade plan before going crazy buying stuff.

cheers

Terry

Yep agreed Terry - I have spent the best afternoon listening and really enjoying the  system.

Oscons are these. Supposedly the real deal.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261428925046?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Offline brenden

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 04:30:49 AM »
Yes 100n  =  0.1  ,that was a typo sorry .  Thanks for pointing that out Terry .

    Best to stick with  approximately 0.1 around dac  in my opinion and get the best quality caps you can fit in .When you go bigger usually you have to sacrifice quality to fit them in .

  At the moment I am evaluating different caps around the dac.  I am beginning to build up a strong  preference for copper foils around .1 size  I currently have  Panasonic PPS  copper foil caps in the MSBs and also bypassing these with a .01 copper foil underneath the circuit board .
The bypass is a clear improvement .
   These copper foils  difficult to source so I am also trying some new old stock ERO Roederstein  0.1uf  KP .These are excellent quality film /aluminium foils  but still small enough to shoehorn in .

   I also have some very high end  Japanese Toichi copper foils  in 0.1 that I would love to try but they are rather big so not sure if this is feasible .
 
   I am currently using Duelund VSF on the output ,and these are wonderful . 

  I have been accumulating very high grade caps ,as I feel this is by far the biggest area for improvement in audio gear .My CD94 MK 2 will be testament to that .

   There are a few areas that are usually overlooked when it comes to upgrading ,and one of these is the decoupling caps around the TDA1541 , The DEM cap next to the TDA1541  is also important. A copper foil polystyrene cap is perfect for here  .There is also a cap that takes the digital signal prior to the SAA7210  decoder in the CD 94 and related drives .  These are usually cheap  polyester .

  My CD is still a work in progress and is very time consuming but is becoming very rewarding with each improvement .My problem now is that replay is becoming so good ,I don't have as much urgency to do the next mod  ::)  Its all too easy to just sit and listen to amazing music .

 I have the parts to complete the upgrades and then some  ,but prefer to assess each upgrade individually .This is the only way to be sure I get every ounce of potential from the 94 .

My current aim is to end up with a showpiece one box CD player .
   

   

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 12:52:45 PM »
Wondering if these are any good for decoupling my dac chip?


http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/polyester-film-capacitors/4879866/

Offline zenelectro

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2015, 02:14:15 PM »
Yes 100n  =  0.1  ,that was a typo sorry .  Thanks for pointing that out Terry .

    Best to stick with  approximately 0.1 around dac  in my opinion and get the best quality caps you can fit in .When you go bigger usually you have to sacrifice quality to fit them in .

  At the moment I am evaluating different caps around the dac.  I am beginning to build up a strong  preference for copper foils around .1 size  I currently have  Panasonic PPS  copper foil caps in the MSBs and also bypassing these with a .01 copper foil underneath the circuit board .
The bypass is a clear improvement .
   These copper foils  difficult to source so I am also trying some new old stock ERO Roederstein  0.1uf  KP .These are excellent quality film /aluminium foils  but still small enough to shoehorn in .


It depends whether you are hearing the type of cap or the ESR / ESL (impedance) - or both, I suspect the latter.

A lot of PPL are running 1uF surface mount film caps in very small form factor because they can be mounted very close to DAC.

I think the actual grounding probably makes more difference but it's hard to conclude as it's not easy to change grounds / board design.

Quote
There are a few areas that are usually overlooked when it comes to upgrading ,and one of these is the decoupling caps around the TDA1541 , The DEM cap next to the TDA1541  is also important. A copper foil polystyrene cap is perfect for here  .There is also a cap that takes the digital signal prior to the SAA7210  decoder in the CD 94 and related drives .  These are usually cheap  polyester .

Again, size of cap makes more difference. The DEM frequency can be adjusted by size of cap and TDA will run over quite a range.
You can also synchronise DEM to BCK but there is a lot of 'discussion' if this helps .. or not. I haven't tried it yet. Might do that soon.

Quote

  My CD is still a work in progress and is very time consuming but is becoming very rewarding with each improvement .My problem now is that replay is becoming so good ,I don't have as much urgency to do the next mod  ::)  Its all too easy to just sit and listen to amazing music .

 I have the parts to complete the upgrades and then some  ,but prefer to assess each upgrade individually .This is the only way to be sure I get every ounce of potential from the 94 .

My current aim is to end up with a showpiece one box CD player .
   
 

Are you running a DAC or modded CD94 - if the latter what OP stage do you have.

cheers

Tez