Author Topic: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC  (Read 15137 times)

Offline brenden

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2015, 04:48:05 PM »
Hi Matt .I wouldnt use those caps .They are polyester which is the worst performing dielectric for this application and audio in general .I may be able to help you out with some high grade caps if you want to , just PM me


HI Tez  My CD player is a modded CD94mk2 . I wanted a one box reference player with a longer term goal of building a killer dac .The output stage is based on AD827  and AD847 .these are exceptional compared to standard stuff and there is no room for a valve output stage anyway .


Regarding the caps ESR  and  ESL definitely play a part but the dielectric definitely has a major impact on sound quality.Dielectric absorption seems to be a major contributor to sound quality and resonance likely to have an impact .damped foils like tin and copper sound sound superior to aluminium foils and metallised film.


I have plans to assess the differnt size dem  caps .It has taken some time for me to source the high grade caps for this due to the unusual size pf values. .I was able to get some soshin SE mica caps for this .This cap is very expensive in Japan and not your average mica cap .They are 120pf which pushes the frequency up quite high but the mica caps are ideal for this .

I may look at reclocking the dem way down the track for a comparison , but could open a can of worms .


I have also changed the grounds on the dac board in the mk2 as the arrangement waa sub optimal  and was an improvement also , but have changed back while modding as it made it more difficult to remove boards easily.Once I am finnished I will implement the revised ground .



Offline zenelectro

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2015, 10:51:05 PM »
Hi Matt .I wouldnt use those caps .They are polyester which is the worst performing dielectric for this application and audio in general .I may be able to help you out with some high grade caps if you want to , just PM me
 

HI Tez  My CD player is a modded CD94mk2 . I wanted a one box reference player with a longer term goal of building a killer dac .The output stage is based on AD827  and
AD847 .these are exceptional compared to standard stuff and there is no room for a valve output stage anyway .

WRT caps, Regarding the caps ESR  and  ESL definitely play a part but the dielectric definitely has a major impact on sound quality.Dielectric absorption seems to be a major contributor to sound quality and resonance likely to have an impact .damped foils like tin and copper sound sound superior to aluminium foils and metallised film.


WRT OP stage, I encourage you to try an open loop approach, they generally sound better than any opamp. A lot of PPL have had luck with AD844 running open loop.
Do a search, there is plenty of info around.

WRT caps, for signal coupling my results are varied. For example Munforf metalised silver / oil easily beat Rel Cap Tin / Polystyrene in my DAC. Polystyrene has lowest DA of
any and Tin is 'supposedly superior to metalised. Maybe the oil improves DA - I have not seen values for DA with these oil filled caps.

For digital PS bypassing form factor and impedance can make more difference than DA or DF. The rule here is smaller is better and a  big part of the ESL is the leads
themselves.

But we are talking bit decoupling so it's an in between area. The cap is definitely connected to audio OP (indirectly) so DA may well be fighting form factor ESL/ESR
for a stake in the overall sonic results. It's fun this stuff! :)

So the big question is, for this application what is the most important characteristic, since we can't really have them all.

I'd love to get some of those copper PPS caps - can you spare enough for 1 DAC - or are they available anywhere?


Quote

I have plans to assess the differnt size dem  caps .It has taken some time for me to source the high grade caps for this due to the unusual size pf values. .I was able to get some soshin SE mica caps for this .This cap is very expensive in Japan and not your average mica cap .They are 120pf which pushes the frequency up quite high but the mica caps are ideal for this .

I may look at reclocking the dem way down the track for a comparison , but could open a can of worms .

I have also changed the grounds on the dac board in the mk2 as the arrangement waa sub optimal  and was an improvement also , but have changed back while modding as it made it more difficult to remove boards easily.Once I am finnished I will implement the revised ground .

What have you done to grounds?

Also WRT copper PPS caps, I have another sig coupling application in electric guitar where I need a very small cap that has very good audio quality.

However I need an ongoing supply for this application.


cheers

Tez


« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 11:41:20 PM by zenelectro »

Offline brenden

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2015, 12:45:57 AM »
Hi Tez , what size PPS caps do you need  for your guitar ?
     
  I have a lot of different sizes from small  pf  to about .047 uf  . The 0.1 is very scarce unfortunately .These are very good caps
      The physical size for these is also very small which is a bonus .

     I dont have enough in 0.1 for a dac but will be able to work something out to use in the MSB which is the most critical .you will hear the difference .

   I do have a nice treasure trove of exotic caps especially in many pf values so let me know if you need something special and also voltage rating .

Regarding polystyrene caps , they tend to be brighter than polypropylene and mylar .This makes it difficult to balance the frequency response and to blend in with electros in bypassing .I havent been a real fan of the relcap styrenes generally .My copper styrenes work beautifully in the DEM  position and also for coupling digital signal .
   I think polypropylene is more neutral for audio circuits out of all the plastic caps especially with copper foil .

  I hope to try some toichi   copper and some mundorf silver gold (non oil )  soon .
  Its a fascinating subject .I am not sure the normal measurement parameters tell the full story .

   I am still open to ideas on the output stages .I will have a chat with u one day .


The  grounds on the 94 mk2 dac board  take a terrible route  half way around the machine past lots of
noisy circuitry .I basically redirect it directly to ground  like  good star grouding systems .
   Same can be done to the filter /decoder board .wire size and quality is also important when doing this .


   

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2015, 11:01:56 PM »
Spent the weekend just gone enjoying Terry's transport and Audiocentric. For giggles i ripped a couple of well recorded cds and compared to the Klein DAC which is being fed by a new mac mini and jriver.

One disc was Ryan Adams live at Carnegie Hall and the other was one of Steves gold discs.

The Klein is very good, particularly when you consider its cost. I recall the Esoteric K07 i flirted with in my previous ML1 system and it shares the same qualities, the Klein may even be better.

The Marantz and Audiocentric playing the same 16 bit just sounds so... right. Emotion! This combination has it. I am glad i took the advice of others wiser than me. The old Philips DAC is bringing a great deal of enjoyment and i now know why they are favored amongst those that know better.

Im looking forward to experiencing what this transport can do with a better DAC but for now im having a seriously good time listening.

 8)

« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 11:03:28 PM by matt200sr »

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2015, 05:36:39 PM »
Well looks like I will be obtaining my old DAC back from Simon so the Audiocentric is available if anyone would like to get into seriously good sounding territory for a fraction of the time and cost.

The great thing about this DAC being it can be built upon over time should one have the required patience and tech know how. Unfortunately for myslef I have only small amounts of both  ;D

As far as I can tell most if not all caps have been upgraded. I have fitted new NOS 645pi output valves Reflektors '77 dtae codes and have a '71 NOS pair of Reflektors I will also throw in. Other improvements I have made since owning are fit new ETI rca output connectors and removed all blutak holding pcbs in place and fit nice pcb risers. I also removed the spdif output. I could re-fit this if needed or leave this DAC all ready fro i2s.

Comes with the case cover of course all ready to go.

Looking forward to hearing what Terry's transport can do with the KillerDac.

Matt


Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2015, 05:38:53 PM »
Forgot to mention - I'll let it go for a song to the right person  :P

Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2015, 10:20:18 PM »
Forgot to mention - I'll let it go for a song to the right person  :P
I can't sing but i know some that can
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2015, 05:42:18 PM »
Hoping someone can help here..

Inputs on the killerdac that I just got back from Simon are wired common to the Empirical Audio Offramp as below.

Outputs on Terry's transport are data, wclk and blk.

data and sdata are one and the same?

is sclk wclk or blk?

making lr/clk wxlk or blk?

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/off-ramp-converter (pin outs half way down page)

also wrt pins where receiver chip would normally go which is what?


need help!!!




Offline YoungSC

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2015, 01:21:34 PM »
Hi Matt,

Can you take a photo of the back of the transport, plus one of the connecting cables with the common grounding into the RJ45?

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2015, 04:43:53 PM »
See below for pinouts for the Offramp which the input of this Killerdac Craig wired common to.

Also a pic of the Neutrik female input on the dac and BNC outputs (rca adaptors attached) on the transport.

Just a thought but if the pin outs on the transport end of the cable were wired common to the Offramp i2s rj45 output does that mean the pins on the dac end are wired in reverse? I don't believe this to be the case as I never recalled having the cable the incorrect way round when I used the Offramp with this dac.

I think I am interpreting correctly that BCLK is the same as SCLK (Blue) and WCLK is L/RCLK (Green) and data or SDATA (Orange)

Each signal type had it's own ground back to the input on the dac and I think there is some issue here.





Offline rab

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2015, 10:30:55 PM »
Hi Matt,

on the chip socket:
pin 26 (orange wire) is the data (SDATA);
pin 11 (green wire) is the frame sync (FSYNC == WCLK, also referred to as Word select WS, and left-right clock L/RCLK); and
pin 12 (blue wire) is the serial data clock (SCLK == BLK).

I usually also connect a digital ground wire to pin 8, i guess that is the blue/white wire.

- richard

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 04:48:31 PM »
Thanks Rab,

Terry actually fitted an RJ45 output in addition to the BNC's and wired the pins common to the Killerdac so I made up a super short cable and BAM! I now have music.

The cable was originally around 30cm long but I shortened it right down to 12cm.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 04:56:12 PM by matt200sr »

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2016, 04:51:21 AM »
how deep are your pockets?

Shallow as F these days Mario

Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2016, 07:23:15 PM »
Shallow as F these days Mario
you have to wait for the next mining boom  coming next life time
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2016, 01:04:02 AM »
you have to wait for the next mining boom  coming next life time

Yea it's ironic as I left a tier one mining company for other ventures when things were good and then waltz back through the door literally the exact week that the the spot price of iron ore started a long and consistent decline. They have been good to me to say the least.

Other rechid challenges are causing financial strain at present.


Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2016, 11:02:53 PM »
Yea it's ironic as I left a tier one mining company for other ventures when things were good and then waltz back through the door literally the exact week that the the spot price of iron ore started a long and consistent decline. They have been good to me to say the least.

Other rechid challenges are causing financial strain at present.
kid? lol i have 3
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2016, 04:47:02 PM »
Well...

Due to a recent separation as well as lifes other challenges I have not had a system setup for some months now and with the Industry I work in tatters I am not hopeful of getting a new listening room any time soon either!

I am lucky to still have a job within a tier 1 resource company at least!  ...They are looking after me well.

My journey will continue but not at this point in time when I need to focus on staying afloat in this ever increasing 'Water World'


What that means for me and sadly... If there is an interested party out there than my 2013 built KillerDac and fully modified Zenelectro CD94 transport is available for 'Expressions of interest'.

Such is life...  ;)

Offline matt200sr

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2016, 05:02:40 PM »
I should mention that I would prefer to keep the DAC (for another world), so if there is a KillerDac owner out there that would like a properly sorted transport then I may just sell the 'Marantzenelectro'

 

Offline kajak12

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Re: Matt's Marantzenelectro Transport and Audiocentric DAC
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2016, 08:27:34 PM »
matt i wish you the best in the future such is life we dont really know whats around the corner until we pass it..............
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time