Metrum Acoustics Octave

[gthicm]

Interesting observations.  This sort of implementation has been done before.  MSB for one has some products, but the price point is much higher.    It may be something lke that eternal debate of active versus passive preamplification.  I vastly prefer active, as to me it adds dynamics and musicality that I find missing with passive control.

Wow MSB oh oh how over priced is that dac and transport, not recommended unless your TONE DEATH

You mean tone DEAF, right Mario?  I have no idea, really, as I have never heard that brand.  What did you hear from MSB?

I thnk Mario duse vey wel for a Polish gentamen, I cud not do it in Polish - cud u? 

Cannot do it in Polish, but for sure, better deaf than DEAD!

[kajak12]

Interesting observations.  This sort of implementation has been done before.  MSB for one has some products, but the price point is much higher.    It may be something lke that eternal debate of active versus passive preamplification.  I vastly prefer active, as to me it adds dynamics and musicality that I find missing with passive control.

Wow MSB oh oh how over priced is that dac and transport, not recommended unless your TONE DEATH

You mean tone DEAF, right Mario?  I have no idea, really, as I have never heard that brand.  What did you hear from MSB?

I heard a very expensive well marketed dac which is very average boring no timbre flat sound.

[gthicm]

Agree with you that there is a lot of over priced and average sounding gear.  I have heard some but read about other stuff.  The problem is that some of this junk attracts a cult like following.  The claims by the makers, the so called audio crtitics and people who buy this stuff can get pretty comical.  Some of the stuff includes SET tube amps for nearly 150K USD, a cd player with a common CDM12 unit, steel case and some alleged wonder dac for over 10K and then of course the real snake oil like Shakti Stones and Hallographs.

I do not know about the MSB gear, but it could be good.  Maybe some day I will hear some of it.  As for the more obvious snake oil, no thanks!

[vitavoxdude]

Any body tried the Peter Belt stuff? 
I really like the single piece of newspaper beneath one of the 4 feet beneath kit, costs nothing  ..................and the reef knot in the mains cable - bliss............putting clips on various pieces of apparatus is a bit whacky though and I have a mate who swears by electrical tape but that's for me to know and you to find out.   I love a tease...V

[zenelectro]

Yes these dacs are made to generate extremely high frequencies (max 7Mhz) with very low distortion and noise. For some industrial or medical
processes this is very important . It is also important to do this on a very small substrate as long wires and connections of a design can be noisy by picking up interference. Therefore the whole conversion and buffering is build on the chip together Finally a 6 layer board is used to keep the noise
low.

Bill

WRT distortion - spec says <0.04%. If they are selling these industrial grade dac chips based on low distortion then
better quote something better than that - the best audio chips are doing 100 x that - so I don't quite get the marketing spiel.

Same goes for noise -  they are saying these dac chips have superior (lower) noise than commercial audio dac's. So how
about we have a simple DR (dynamic range) figure, which is the recognised industry measure. Good dacs these days are
over 130dB. They quote 'noise generated by electronics' - what does this mean?

The reason, in truth, is that these industrial dac chips do not have superior performance to audio dacs in the standard, recognised easily measured areas.
However if they feel there are other advantages relating to their speed etc that translates into better sound, then I'm all ears - please explain it clearly.

I just don't like being baffled with tech BS when I -know- the figures they are quoting are run of the mill or not a recognised standard.

So there   

T

[bhobba]

I just don't like being baffled with tech BS when I -know- the figures they are quoting are run of the mill or not a recognised standard.

I have zero idea if its tech bullcrap or not.  But what I can say is me and another SNA guy I had over heard it via the Wavelength USB converter.  It may not have been the cutting edge like the Off-Ramp is but it was still pretty darn good.  Anyway here is how the other guy described it:
Metrum - this one was like the ultimate SS DAC. It had detail, speed, transients all nailed down. Really impressive. The recording replayed in perfect detail. A bargain too.

For me the Metrum was nearly perfect in a Hi Fi sense reproducing with almost uncanny accuracy what it is fed - you really do feel like you are privy to what the recording engineer intended. Despite that you are under no illusions it is a recording.

Nothing like the Killer which simply sounds real.

Thanks
Bill

[zenelectro]

I just don't like being baffled with tech BS when I -know- the figures they are quoting are run of the mill or not a recognised standard.

I have zero idea if its tech bullcrap or not.  But what I can say is me and another SNA guy I had over heard it via the Wavelength USB converter.  It may not have been the cutting edge like the Off-Ramp is but it was still pretty darn good.  Anyway here is how the other guy described it:
Metrum - this one was like the ultimate SS DAC. It had detail, speed, transients all nailed down. Really impressive. The recording replayed in perfect detail. A bargain too.

For me the Metrum was nearly perfect in a Hi Fi sense reproducing with almost uncanny accuracy what it is fed - you really do feel like you are privy to what the recording engineer intended. Despite that you are under no illusions it is a recording.

Nothing like the Killer which simply sounds real.

Thanks
Bill

Hi Bill,

WRT Wavelength usb converter - I believe it is probably as good as any out there - maybe better. Gordon Rankin put a lot of work into it and is extremely knowledgeable

WRT Metrum - I'd like to see a decent set of measurements which might actually give us some insight into why it sounds bettter (if in fact it is better) than normal
audio dac chips - then we might all learn something.

Obviously this is not going to happen as it a) will most likely give away some degree of what the company feels is their proprietary information b) show it to measure poorly.

I've done some searching recently for industrial / measurement / medical application / other 24 bit dac chips but haven't turned anything up yet.

cheers

[bhobba]

WRT Wavelength usb converter - I believe it is probably as good as any out there - maybe better. Gordon Rankin put a lot of work into it and is extremely knowledgeable

It was good all right - but I felt the Off-Ramp had the edge - actually a bit more than an edge.  But since my Off-Ramp is on the blink right now and needs to be returned to Steve we could not do a direct comparison.  If it is as good then you can save yourself a whack because it is only $900.00 compared to the Off-Ramps cost of $1700.00.

Thanks
Bill

[zenelectro]

WRT Wavelength usb converter - I believe it is probably as good as any out there - maybe better. Gordon Rankin put a lot of work into it and is extremely knowledgeable

It was good all right - but I felt the Off-Ramp had the edge - actually a bit more than an edge.  But since my Off-Ramp is on the blink right now and needs to be returned to Steve we could not do a direct comparison.  If it is as good then you can save yourself a whack because it is only $900.00 compared to the Off-Ramps cost of $1700.00.

Thanks
Bill

Yeah, I don't know what clocks the Wavelength is using but I do know that the highest option clocks in the O.R. are very good.

Which options did you get Bill?

[tuyen]

Off Ramp 4 has twin Ultra Clocks and Hynes Regulator on USB Module, approx 6 months old and new condition. $1700


Worth it ?

[vitavoxdude]

Just had to include all the useful stuff up on the website mentioned, it's priceless advice:

Recommendations for Computer Audio
General Recommendations
Rip to WAV or AIFF files if possible
Try Upsampling 44.1 files to 24/96 using S/W programs: SRC, iTunes, R8Brain or Adobe Audition - Wave Editor on Mac (Instructions are on the Empirical Audio audiocircle.com forum)
Avoid ripping to ALAC or other compressed formats using iTunes
Avoid using iTunes on a PC for audio playback
Using iTunes by itself on Mac compromises sound quality and resamples files unless you specify sample-rate. Use Amarra, Pure Music or AyreWave on Mac. We find full Amarra version 1.2 to be the best sounding, although its not the most stable. We are optimistic about 2.1.1. The Equalizer function of Amarra is wonderful and essential for best system optimization.
Set 64-bit mode on PC or Mac for better sound quality.
Avoid Windows Media Player on PCs. Use instead Foobar, Jriver or Media Monkey. Better sound quality
If using a PC with XP, always bypass KMIXER using Kernal Streaming. If Vista or Win7, use WASAPI:
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd371455(VS.85).aspx

USB Recommendations
Mac Mini has the least problematic USB ports.
Recent PC Laptops are recommended, particularly those with ungrounded power cords. We have had good luck with Toshiba,HP, Macbook and Mac Mini. Not so good with Dell.
If you are using USB output to one of our products, we recommend that you try more than one USB port on the computer. They are often not equal. The latency or time it takes to service them varies even on the same computer. Some are even USB 1.1 and not USB 2.0 compliant.
Dedicate the Laptop to music playback if you are using USB. Using the computer for lots of other tasks can cause conflicts, increase latency and cause popping in the audio.
If you are using USB for audio streaming, do not attach ANY other USB devices to the computer, even a mouse and particularly not USB disks.
Remove or stop all unnecessary tasks, even screen-savers and virus scanners.
Set the player to have the highest priority.
PCs with faster processors work better, minimum 1.5GHz
Vista needs 4GB RAM and XP 2GB RAM
For Mac, 4GB is minimum RAM.

Software Recommendations
Rippers:
The best ripper we have found for PC (the best overall) is dbpoweramp professional with Accurate-Rip enabled:
http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm

For Mac, we recommend XLD for ripping (also enable Accurate-Rip):
http://tmkk.pv.land.to/xld/index_e.html

Also worth trying is MAX:
http://sbooth.org/

Players:
For PC, try Foobar 0.8.3, Jriver, Media Monkey and XXhighend:
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=1.0

Upsamplers:
For PC, the best upsampler is Adobe Audition:
http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/?promoid=DJDVV

For Mac, the best upsampler is Wave Editor (uses Izotope code):
http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/waveeditor/

[gthicm]

Off Ramp 4 has twin Ultra Clocks and Hynes Regulator on USB Module, approx 6 months old and new condition. $1700


Worth it ?

Go for it.  Make sure it is using the latest software derived from M2tech.  I think it is the latest model so should have.

[omodo]

looks like it's "only" $1149 for a new one with one ultraclock. I presume if you upgrade just one of the clocks (44.1/88.2/176.4) then the standard clock is still available for 24/96/192?

wonder what sort of price we could get in a group buy of 5-10 (I'd be interested)

edit: looks like the dual turboclock is the new top of the line clock, "20%" improvement over the twin ultra clocks, $1499 for a new one in this spec.

[kajak12]

looks like it's "only" $1149 for a new one with one ultraclock. I presume if you upgrade just one of the clocks (44.1/88.2/176.4) then the standard clock is still available for 24/96/192?

wonder what sort of price we could get in a group buy of 5-10 (I'd be interested)

edit: looks like the dual turboclock is the new top of the line clock, "20%" improvement over the twin ultra clocks, $1499 for a new one in this spec.

Has it got i2s?

[kajak12]

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dac8580.pdf

[zenelectro]

Off Ramp 4 has twin Ultra Clocks and Hynes Regulator on USB Module, approx 6 months old and new condition. $1700


Worth it ?

He's now got 'turbo clocks' for top of the line and they are very good - I've got some coming to
evaluate (from the manufacturer).

[gthicm]

Both the Pace-Car and Offramp output i2s standard.  You can order a different voltage outputs as well, either 3.3 or 5 volts.

The turboclock boards are made by Empirical Audio. Also, according to what I have read, the Hynes regulators have a lot to do with the improved performance of the Turboclock.

[zenelectro]

Both the Pace-Car and Offramp output i2s standard.  You can order a different voltage outputs as well, either 3.3 or 5 volts.

The turboclock boards are made by Empirical Audio. Also, according to what I have read, the Hynes regulators have a lot to do with the improved performance of the Turboclock.

Copy that 

Turboclock uses off the shelf hi spec oscillators, I know the manufacturer, they spec about as good as you can currently get without resorting to
the type of oscillator used in zenclock which is much more expensive. I am getting a few to compare to zenclock see where they both stand.

The Hynes shunt regs are also very SOTA, as are my own shunt regs. It's interesting that even with the PH shunts people still report
improvement when powered by battery.

Damn power supplies - too critical!

cheers

[kajak12]

Both the Pace-Car and Offramp output i2s standard.  You can order a different voltage outputs as well, either 3.3 or 5 volts.

The turboclock boards are made by Empirical Audio. Also, according to what I have read, the Hynes regulators have a lot to do with the improved performance of the Turboclock.

Copy that 


The Hynes shunt regs are also very SOTA, as are my own shunt regs. It's interesting that even with the PH shunts people still report
improvement when powered by battery.

Damn power supplies - too critical!

cheers

The day you make a power supply to equal my car battery is the day you will become genius of power

[bhobba]

Copy that  

Turboclock uses off the shelf hi spec oscillators, I know the manufacturer, they spec about as good as you can currently get without resorting to
the type of oscillator used in zenclock which is much more expensive. I am getting a few to compare to zenclock see where they both stand.

The Hynes shunt regs are also very SOTA, as are my own shunt regs. It's interesting that even with the PH shunts people still report
improvement when powered by battery.

Damn power supplies - too critical!

Steve told me he licences the Hynes regulator technology but even that is not good enough for him - he does his own mods.  The Off-Ramp is not cheap but it is definitely a STOA thing.

I will try and get it over for you guys in WA to hear and see what it does for your Killer DAC's along with the Metrum but I really want to see its effect on the PDX.  Clay is building me a brand new one from scratch specifically designed to interface to the Off-Ramp but with the modified M2Tech he is using as well and the ability to switch between the two.  That way it will be easy to switch and compare.

Thanks
Bill