Author Topic: zenelectro killer clock  (Read 28315 times)

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2011, 10:59:36 PM »
Hello

Well I have just returned from 'having a session' round Marios to audition the new Zenelectro clock for CD players and transports. ;D
Interesting.  8)
With Mario's own clock (no slouch) the intruments were all there but the space between them was narower than with the new 'super clock'.  Initially this took a bit of getting used to but a change in output valves on the KDac and we were in business.  What the new clock has that the Mario's DIY clock does not is more width, height and depth and if the recording allows, more space around individual performers.  Well the tinkering could not be resisted so a second Dueland cap replaced an electrolytic on the board, this totally balanced out the clock as earlier there was a strange lopsidedness to the reproduction. (call this an inbalance between top and bottom reproduction and speed)  So two Duelands in and now the sound (again given good recordings) evened out and lost any edginess or uneveness to reveal an altogether smoother and 'easy on the ears' replay.  :P

Please bear in mind that supplying the power was a car battery which can sound too smooth for some, this was fed into an onboard regulator which dropped the voltage to the 5v crystal, I did not have a really good squiz at the circuit but there were several transistors and LED's which could be acting as a voltage source(?).  Construction quality looked fine as this is a demo unit only and it uses bog standard resistors but there was one Auricap which was the only 'pandering' to audiophile types along with decent ground planes and a central earthing line.

So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness.  This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so.  Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 12:41:07 AM »
Hello

Well I have just returned from 'having a session' round Marios to audition the new Zenelectro clock for CD players and transports. ;D
Interesting.  8)
With Mario's own clock (no slouch) the intruments were all there but the space between them was narower than with the new 'super clock'.  Initially this took a bit of getting used to but a change in output valves on the KDac and we were in business.  What the new clock has that the Mario's DIY clock does not is more width, height and depth and if the recording allows, more space around individual performers.  Well the tinkering could not be resisted so a second Dueland cap replaced an electrolytic on the board, this totally balanced out the clock as earlier there was a strange lopsidedness to the reproduction. (call this an inbalance between top and bottom reproduction and speed)  So two Duelands in and now the sound (again given good recordings) evened out and lost any edginess or uneveness to reveal an altogether smoother and 'easy on the ears' replay.  :P

Please bear in mind that supplying the power was a car battery which can sound too smooth for some, this was fed into an onboard regulator which dropped the voltage to the 5v crystal, I did not have a really good squiz at the circuit but there were several transistors and LED's which could be acting as a voltage source(?).  Construction quality looked fine as this is a demo unit only and it uses bog standard resistors but there was one Auricap which was the only 'pandering' to audiophile types along with decent ground planes and a central earthing line.

So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness.  This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so.  Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.
Just imagine when i get my own personal clock to play around with,i can see a hifi collective order of resistors coming just for the clock i will push it to its limits
ps:computer audio is miles away from the cd94 + zen clock
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline zenelectro

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 02:56:35 AM »
Hello

So I hear you cry, is there much difference? well yes there is but it needed the Duelands to bring the greatest improvements without which the new clock brings more width, air and height / depth but not all the calm space in between notes and eveness.  This should not be underestimated as the dark, fraction of a second between notes makes for a more enjoyable performance and easier time listening to the macro details in the music, is it worth investing in, I think so.  Mario mentioned a rough price which is much less tha a lot of the pimp shirt salesman price tags Get your DIY orders in early, I feel sure you'll enjoy the uplift for not a million dollars. Shame one of my top CD players uses a non standard frequency or I could be one of the firsts to enjoy it in the longer term.

Thanks vtv your feedback is appreciated. I'm not surprised the 2 x duelunds made an improvement.

Note that the 2 electros used were cheap Rubycons out of my cap box also all resistors are plain Jaycar MF and carbon film types.

The proto clock was made with parts I had on hand - see where the basic design sat performance wise, there is scope for improvement in some areas.

I generally resist using parts like Duelunds and try to wring every ounce of performance other ways before resorting to them - they
just don't represent good value for money in the scheme of things. But if users want to upgrade that is fine.

For the next batch the following improvements are planned:

- Better quality resistors
- Better quality caps (where electro are now)
- oscillator itself will be same generic type but higher spec model with a)slightly low phase noise b) 5 to 10 x lower
sensitivity to vibrationally induced jitter.
- Proper custom designed pcb with optimised layout for noise etc.

My aim is to get the performance past the level of the clock now (with duelunds) but without needing them.


cheers

T

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 11:27:22 AM »


My aim is to get the performance past the level of the clock now (with duelunds) but without needing them.


cheers

T

Now that won't be easy terry not impossible just a lot of R&D to do it,i will also be interested to achieve performance of a duelund fitted clock with other parts in the chain to match it.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 02:25:42 PM »
Hi Terry, nice clock.  ;D
Interesting, a mark 2 so soon.  :-[
It would be good to get some of the gains that the expensive caps brought by better design.  If a better specked crystal is already available was this sent out as a teaser - taster?
I could not bear sending out something which I knew could be improved so easily and that's probably why I am not a manufacturer, of course there is yardage in having a PCB which can accept bigger better components as demonstrated by others.  I would suggest a strategy of basic, advanced and ultra types so people can buy in at the basic and move up with possibly trade in allowances along the way.  Now if the freq could be set by dip switches you'd probably not be able to keep up with demand!  ;D

Get in quick before computer audio dominates the couch potato world of audio, not the way I want to buy my music.  ;) but don't mind replaying it via a NAS etc.  At least with a Silver disk you cannot suffer disk failures and loose all that expensive download.
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2011, 02:43:31 PM »
Hi Terry, nice clock.  ;D
Interesting, a mark 2 so soon.  :-[

Mark 2 ?   so far its only in development stage (R&D) so its not even a mark1 just a prototype.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:12:54 PM by kajak12 »
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Offline flemo

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2011, 10:41:12 PM »
Where do we order one??

If it's here put me down for 1 please.   :P

Do we have a time frame when the first batch will be ready?   ???

Has Stevenvalve tried the prototype in his system yet?

And what happened to the pic's??

Cheers, flemo.

Offline zenelectro

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2011, 11:01:28 PM »
Where do we order one??

If it's here put me down for 1 please.   :P

Do we have a time frame when the first batch will be ready?   ???

Has Stevenvalve tried the prototype in his system yet?

And what happened to the pic's??

Cheers, flemo.

Are you the expediter around here  ;D

Clock pcb is being designed. The actual oscillator in the zenclock proto is a very high spec unit and expensive.
I'm just jumping through hoops with supplier to make sure that spec can be consistently duplicated.

What frequency do you need?

I'll be going up to SV's in a few days - have a had a bad flu and I want to make sure it's fully gone b4 I go up there.


T

Offline flemo

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2011, 11:07:07 PM »
Hey T,

Just wanted to make sure I was able to get one and wasn't sure how many you were producing in this batch, or when the next batch would be.  Plus I wasn't sure how to get my name on the list.  :o

I'm after one to suit a CD94.

Cheers, flemo.  

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2011, 11:07:15 PM »

A photo of killer crystal
I cant post more photos at this present time  as zenelectro is trying to get a patent :D
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Offline flemo

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2011, 11:10:37 PM »
I couldn't see the Duelund caps!! :)

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 11:18:05 PM »
I couldn't see the Duelund caps!! :)
Out of site out of mind :P
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2011, 12:57:32 AM »

A photo of killer crystal
I cant post more photos at this present time  as zenelectro is trying to get a patent :D
Patent, ha ha.  :-X  There is no chance of that ever happening, the only way to protect the 'design' is to pot it and insert ball bearings to prevent easy cutting. ::) ::)

Hurry up Terry, Mario has almost hung himeself in dissapointment not having more zen tee hee  :P :P and I for one will be looking to be added to the list of me me and me and don't forget me. ;D
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2011, 07:57:42 PM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2011, 11:33:15 PM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what

You sure? $2k offer, no?  ;D
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2011, 12:49:39 AM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what

You sure? $2k offer, no?  ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock  ,for that money i can fit it out terry's clock with duellund caps all the way through and gold plated battery terminals. ;D
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Offline Jehuty

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2011, 01:12:53 AM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what

You sure? $2k offer, no?  ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock

Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it!  :)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline kajak12

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2011, 01:49:23 AM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what

You sure? $2k offer, no?  ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock

Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it!  :)
i dont know anybody with a cd94/wadia in melbourne
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline zenelectro

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2011, 11:45:44 AM »
Zen clock is back in action not going back to nsw ever again no matter what

You sure? $2k offer, no?  ;D
Dont give terry any ideas msb charge $9950 for a clock

Dang you're right, I sure hope not! Any chance bringing the clock to Melbourne and fit it to someone else's system Mario? We're all very keen to listen to it!  :)
i dont know anybody with a cd94/wadia in melbourne

Hi guys :)

I think zenclock is getting travel sickness.

WRT my second batch and the long wait, there is good reason for this which has nothing to do with any lack of
productivity or motivation on my part.
 
I needed to find an oscillator supplier that could guarantee specified performance but at a reasonable price.

A little bit of insight into clocks follows: Although there is major importance in the design of power supply, component
choice etc, the most important factor, especially for good low frequency phase noise is the quality and cut of the crystal itself.

This is why many people have noted differences in same brand of oscillators.

I have already spoken to suppliers of super spec oscillators and it is no problem to get clocks with phase noise
specs in the same range as MSB Galaxy - however it puts the cost out of the range of most DIY users which is
not much fun.

My aim was and still is to have around this level of performance but at a price that is not stupid.

cheers

Terry

Offline Jehuty

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Re: zenelectro killer clock
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2011, 06:11:36 PM »
Thanks Terry, nothing better than a world-class product at reasonable price.  :)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.