Author Topic: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors  (Read 1656 times)

Offline stevenvalve

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Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« on: July 19, 2017, 07:38:12 PM »
I have been playing with Duelund VSF Capacitors for some time and as many of you know i consider them the best cap available. I procured some Duelund cast recently, supposedly the greatest capacitor ever since the invention of the car (according a lot of internet sites). I have spent some considerable time listening to the Duelunds in many Amplifiers and DACs and the results are interesting indeed. All the Duelund caps where between 0.47uf to 2.2uf and 400V to 600V. The results always remand consistent. The cast was cleaner, more extended, smoother and detailed and focused, In most HiFi aspects it's the winner, But unfortunately there strengths are not the only things that really matter, The VSF where more musically satisfying, with a lovely warmth, an Expansive enveloping soundstage and timbrel correctness, on voices instruments etc, they are just more wholesomely organic and most importantly natural and involving. Different instruments sounded exactly that, like different instruments. Each instrument had the correct tonal character of the instrument being played. The cast Duelunds sounded somewhat artificial, lacking some of the very essence of what makes reproduced music sound real. They had a kind of sameness of timbre. They just sound more HiFi like, To be fair most caps do have this artificial character to varying degrees. The cast are a great cap but just overrated, and certainly are one of the best. I had one one application where the cast worked well, in the valve output for the Studer A80, The VSF was just not happy there because the output was originally tuned for the Otari MTR10 but with the inclusion of the studer A80 the balance was dark and thick not neutral, therefore the cast with its light clean airy disposition worked well. Remember none of these caps where tried in speaker crossovers and the results could be different. There is always a place for any flavored capacitor (and they all are to some degree) when tuning a system, but in a superbly tuned system the VSF is King. There are many other types of Duelund caps out there but these are the flagship models.     
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:04:07 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline hedalfa2

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
I have been playing with Duelund VSF Capacitors for some time and as many of you know i consider them the best cap available. I procured some Duelund cast recently, supposedly the greatest capacitor ever since the invention of the car (according a lot of internet sites). I have spent some considerable time listening to the Duelunds in many Amplifiers and DACs and the results are interesting indeed. All the Duelund caps where between 0.47uf to 2.2uf and 400V to 600V. The results always remand consistent. The cast was cleaner, more extended, smoother and detailed and focused, In most HiFi aspects it's the winner, But unfortunately there strengths are not the only things that really matter, The VSF where more musically satisfying, with a lovely warmth, an Expansive enveloping soundstage and timbrel correctness, on voices instruments etc, they are just more wholesomely organic and most importantly natural and involving. Different instruments sounded exactly that, like different instruments. Each instrument had the correct tonal character of the instrument being played. The cast Duelunds sounded somewhat artificial, lacking some of the very essence of what makes reproduced music sound real. They had a kind of sameness of timbre. They just sound more HiFi like, To be fair most caps do have this artificial character to varying degrees. The cast are a great cap but just overrated, and certainly are one of the best. I had one one application where the cast worked well, in the valve output for the Studer A80, The VSF was just not happy there because the output was originally tuned for the Otari MTR10 but with the inclusion of the studer A80 the balance was dark and thick not neutral, therefore the cast with its light clean airy disposition worked well. Remember none of these caps where tried in speaker crossovers and the results could be different. There is always a place for any flavored capacitor (and they all are to some degree) when tuning a system, but in a superbly tuned system the VSF is King. There are many other types of Duelund caps out there but these are the flagship models.     

Very interesting thanks for the commentary.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:04:48 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 08:17:15 PM »
Duelund VSF Capacitors are indeed great, but what most uses don't realize is they are very much directional. In one direction they will sound disjointed, rough, strangely unmusical less involving, the frequency curve does not sound flat and lacking the usual lovery fullness in the lower midrange. I must say i could not stand them in the wrong orientation, they can go from magnificent to ordinary just by flipping the cap around. What is amazing is that no one seems to have even fingered this out, so much for these supposed experts who tell us what to buy regarding internal components. Even resistors (most if not all), are directional and that direction change does not mean it sounds bad, just different.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:21:29 PM by stevenvalve »

Offline rab

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 09:35:10 PM »
Thanks Steve. I have heard mutterings along these lines for the past few years, but now here it is in print and with more detail.

As it happens, I do have a couple of CAST caps, of the recently introduced tinned copper variety, which I am currently using in my crossover. Does anyone have a spare pair of 1uF and 2.2uF VSF caps I could try out for comparison ?  :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 12:15:13 AM »
Rab, i do have both, but they are only good for about 100V, but in a crossover that's fine. I can lend then to you. As i said my knowledge of the Duelunds performance in a crossover is limited. 

Offline rab

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 08:36:13 PM »
Excellent! Thanks Steve, it will be interesting.

I should say though: the 2.2uF is in series with the tweeter and comes direct from the amp and is followed by an autoformer with an 8.2 Ohm Mundorf Supreme damping resistor followed by an inductor; ie a simple 3rd order HP.

The 1uF is just to give some Duelund flavour to a large ~23 uF capacitance in the midrange 3rd order HP filter: it is in parallel with an 18uF Auricap and a 3.9uF Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: Duelund Cast Vs VSF Capacitors
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 07:59:36 PM »
I have been asked what is the right direction to run the Duelund VSF Capacitors, That of course is dependent on the direction of signal. Here is one of my leak amps with the caps in the correct orientation and it's the difference between brilliance and ordinary. You can see they are opposed for each stereo side. In this case the lead heading in the direction of the writing on each Duelund goes to the valve, and you would think that the valve (EL84) is heading to the output. I would certainly try these caps in doth directions and use the best accordingly. Remember i have not tried the direction aspect in speaker crossovers, but in electronics it's critical and could be the same result in crossovers.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 08:08:58 PM by stevenvalve »