Special TDA DAC commemoration edition from the Lampizator

[kajak12]

Are you going to build one?
You build it and measure it and i will listen to it and modd it

I've tried the d3a once before, the main problem is it's super high gain (77 mu) which is more than double the 6922 (at 33 mu), even with a low i/v resistor, 18r from memory, the output was very high, I tried stepping it down using a lundahl ll1660 line transformer wired as 4.5:1 with a highish i/v, around 56r or 65r, one of the two, and it wasn't too bad but in the end I preferred Pedja's output stage so disconnected it.. might be better with all the killerdac power supplies and what not but the gain will still be an issue unless you deal with it somehow

The D3A is a single triode, so SRPP for two channels would require 4 tubes, as would mu follower, which is what Tuyen's photo might be.  Again, and I know that reasonable minds would differ, I would not bother with SRPP.  Don't like it.  The gain may be too much with the D3A, but whatever gain there is, it is plenty clean.  Stockpiled two dozen of these things for future use.  I am using a pair in a phono stage now.  Very clean sound.

As to Rogic's design, it is really great and revealing and look Ma, no tubes!  

No tubes no magic   imho sna style clean means what? i am after timbre,texture, emotion

Well, whatever.  Many would argue that you are after distortion and harmonics.  If you like that, cool.  For a toobular D3A phono you can easily build, have a look here.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/quanghao-audio-design/161394-old-thread-hi-end-phono-preamplifier-andrea-ciuffoli.html

Dont natural instruments have harmonics?  The last time i played an accoustic guitar it had plenty of lovely harmonics.
Distortion? You have yet to hear a great valve amp or valve dac it sounds like real music not a cardboard cutout imho sna style

Of course there are harmonics.  There are natural harmonics and then added harmonics that are not natural.  As to whether I have heard the sound of tubes and as to wwhether I appreciate them, let me do a count in my current two systems.  There are 63 tubes, 24 of which are power tubes, not to mention tube regulated power supplies.  The topologies are push pull power, SET and DSET power and preamplification and Aikido in preamplification.  No SRPP at the moment, but it would be ok as a driver for an amp, but surely not for a preamp or dac output, IMHO. I like the sound of tubes, but that is not to say that a properly designed solid state configuration sounds bad or not as good as tubes. BTW, what is SNA?

SNA=  http://www.stereo.net.au/
Your very lucky to hear ss to sound good as tubes i haven't been that lucky yet

[zenelectro]

http://www.intactaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1051&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

simulations, measurements - probably best you not click on that link mario...

hint: schematic is in the ltspice files

4 tubes as its a phono stage, the output is choke loaded common cathode d3a triode connected

Heres the schematic stripped from spice

[kajak12]

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[gthicm]

SNA=  http://www.stereo.net.au/
Your very lucky to hear ss to sound good as tubes i haven't been that lucky yet    
Oh, is this group toob enemy number 1 to you guys?  Generally, I prefer the sound of tubes, if there is such a thing.  But, honestly, there are exceptions.  The Rogic dacs do not have tube output and they are very detailed and warm sounding at the same time.  From my point of view, the design and implementation of the digital and analogue sections is very well thought out and the power supplies are good too.  There are smds and also electrolytics employed, but even then, it sounds quite special.  One change I am planning to implement is however to the coupling caps, which are electrolytic.  I am going to change to film caps with a 4.7 uf value to see if it sounds better, and I think that it will.  Not Duelunds, as I am not made of money, just some Mundorf Silver Oil I got on sale for 60 USD each.  I think that there may well be some significant improvement.

Keep trying different things, is my motto.  We sometimes take one step forward and two back, but the journey is really fun and rewarding.  Keep sharing so I can learn more.  We all have a ways to go, and together is better than in isolation.

[kajak12]

SNA=  http://www.stereo.net.au/
Your very lucky to hear ss to sound good as tubes i haven't been that lucky yet    
Oh, is this group toob enemy number 1 to you guys?  

Not enemies just allies

[kajak12]

SNA=  http://www.stereo.net.au/
Your very lucky to hear ss to sound good as tubes i haven't been that lucky yet    
Oh, is this group toob enemy number 1 to you guys?  Generally, I prefer the sound of tubes, if there is such a thing.  But, honestly, there are exceptions.  The Rogic dacs do not have tube output and they are very detailed and warm sounding at the same time.  From my point of view, the design and implementation of the digital and analogue sections is very well thought out and the power supplies are good too.  There are smds and also electrolytics employed, but even then, it sounds quite special.  One change I am planning to implement is however to the coupling caps, which are electrolytic.  I am going to change to film caps with a 4.7 uf value to see if it sounds better, and I think that it will.  Not Duelunds, as I am not made of money, just some Mundorf Silver Oil I got on sale for 60 USD each.  I think that there may well be some significant improvement.

Keep trying different things, is my motto.  We sometimes take one step forward and two back, but the journey is really fun and rewarding.  Keep sharing so I can learn more.  We all have a ways to go, and together is better than in isolation.

I gave up on ss a few years back after 20 years with it,its good for back ground music i am tube biased beyond turning back to ss.
ps:I dont like smd resistors or caps first thing i do is remove them

[wisnon]

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Great price!!!!!

Half the price of a normal Lamp Dac level 4 and totally unique. A bargain.

 Lukasz claims that it has the best bass he ever heard, though overall he does slightly prefer his normal level 4 for overall airiness and sense of space.

[wisnon]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.239790472725871.57076.100000847605447&type=1

Very interesting development. It would make a nice comparison with the KILLER DAC.

Wisnon. Had a look, but the link did not work. Interestingly there is a Lampizator dac in Melbourne, and they where talking about it on the SNA forum, but nobody seems to be that keen on it. certainly no rave revue. I must say i expected more from one of his Dacs. But to be fair i have looked at his work on the different stuff he mods,  and he gets to his final result (Sound) in a different way than i do. He does not know the valves to use in his Dacs, but i guess the valves he uses, are cheap and plentiful.

How old? What level?

Since April he has made a quantum leap from even Level 2.5 and has been upgrading older models at reasonable costs. The new StereoMojo review is on the latest Level 4, Generation 3 and it uses the active summator circuit in single ended. RAVE reviews all over the place. I have 5 other (new) friends who bought like me and I got direct feedback over the phone or via email. I have seen about 20 other positive/raving feedback reports. Most comparing the sound to analog and asking if it can even do the unthinkable...

The stereomojo review (though raving) is actually slightly milder than the in-person feedback I have gotten. Let us see what the blog owner of www.digitalaudioblog.som says when he gets his L4 later this week.

I think Lukasz is onto something here!

Steromojo is a waste of time in the last dac shootout they used monarchy amps they are  crap good only for a boat anchor,so to me what stereomojo writes means nothing as they cant even set a system up properly if they had any idea about music they would not use monarchy audio amplification,before you ask yes i had one for a demo a few years back even modded its average and good for back ground music while your  mowing the back lawn.(and i am serious)
So to get any credibility what transports and systems are run with the lampizator dacs,so many times reviews are written based on ordinary to average front ends which don't do justice to music in the first place.

The monarchy amps are what that volunteer reviewer owns. The editor is Jamaes Darby and he has the tons of high end equipment. He also gets second and third opinions from NORMAL audio enthusiasts with real world systems. This way you get a broad divergence of opinion and equipment get tested on different grades of systems.

[kajak12]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.239790472725871.57076.100000847605447&type=1

Very interesting development. It would make a nice comparison with the KILLER DAC.

Wisnon. Had a look, but the link did not work. Interestingly there is a Lampizator dac in Melbourne, and they where talking about it on the SNA forum, but nobody seems to be that keen on it. certainly no rave revue. I must say i expected more from one of his Dacs. But to be fair i have looked at his work on the different stuff he mods,  and he gets to his final result (Sound) in a different way than i do. He does not know the valves to use in his Dacs, but i guess the valves he uses, are cheap and plentiful.

How old? What level?

Since April he has made a quantum leap from even Level 2.5 and has been upgrading older models at reasonable costs. The new StereoMojo review is on the latest Level 4, Generation 3 and it uses the active summator circuit in single ended. RAVE reviews all over the place. I have 5 other (new) friends who bought like me and I got direct feedback over the phone or via email. I have seen about 20 other positive/raving feedback reports. Most comparing the sound to analog and asking if it can even do the unthinkable...

The stereomojo review (though raving) is actually slightly milder than the in-person feedback I have gotten. Let us see what the blog owner of www.digitalaudioblog.som says when he gets his L4 later this week.

I think Lukasz is onto something here!

Steromojo is a waste of time in the last dac shootout they used monarchy amps they are  crap good only for a boat anchor,so to me what stereomojo writes means nothing as they cant even set a system up properly if they had any idea about music they would not use monarchy audio amplification,before you ask yes i had one for a demo a few years back even modded its average and good for back ground music while your  mowing the back lawn.(and i am serious)
So to get any credibility what transports and systems are run with the lampizator dacs,so many times reviews are written based on ordinary to average front ends which don't do justice to music in the first place.

The monarchy amps are what that volunteer reviewer owns. The editor is Jamaes Darby and he has the tons of high end equipment. He also gets second and third opinions from NORMAL audio enthusiasts with real world systems. This way you get a broad divergence of opinion and equipment get tested on different grades of systems.

That makes me feel better,back to the question what systems has the dac been on regarding the rave reviews?

[tuyen]

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Really great price for something which I'm guessing sounds excellent.   But unfortunately, don't have money to blow on something like this at the moment.

Bhobba, sell off your W4S (or whichever is your least fav) and get this!      It might even pip your pdx !!

[kajak12]

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Bhobba, sell off your W4S (or whichever is your least fav) and get this!     It might even pip your pdx !!

My gut feeling tells me it will pip the pdx
Go Go Go bill (ozcal!!!! mcb !!!!!) it will pip the satch

[gthicm]

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Great price!!!!!

Half the price of a normal Lamp Dac level 4 and totally unique. A bargain.

 Lukasz claims that it has the best bass he ever heard, though overall he does slightly prefer his normal level 4 for overall airiness and sense of space.

Wisnon,
Your enthusiasm for this product is really admirable, but I do not understand why you feel so compelled to promote this product.  You have posted extensively on Audiogon praising Lampizator products and trying to refute any contrary point of view. 

The Stereo Mojo review to me doesn't prove anything and for once, I agree in principle with Kajak12's points.  As to what Lukasz feels about his own product he makes and sells, one needs to consider just that.  I would be interested in what spdif receiver chip it is using.  NXP? Let the product speak for itself and also let better reviews and comparisons come to light.  At this point, at least to me, the jury is still out as to whether this relatively expensive (5K) product is all that the cheering squad says it is and so much better than its competition.  Let it show its own merits in better systems and head to head with its competition with more competent reviws.  The truth is out there.

[wisnon]

It is a great product besting others at higher prices. Great guy making it as well.

Not just my opinion either.

Yes, the truth is out there and armchair quarterbacking wont find it. Try to get a listen and make up your own mind. Mine is!

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The product cant speak for itself if nobody knows of it and nobody auditions it.

I COULD just keep quiet and keep this remarkable discovery to myself or I could try to share by getting the word out. I chose the latter and its my choice to make.

BTW, the Mojo review was done with a March build. The Generation 3 was finalized in April, so they did not even hear the latest build Level 4 with the new summation circuit and tweaked parameters. I know this as my own DAC was updated in July with the latest and greatest. The latest Level 2 will give the older Level for a run for its money. The new Level 4 is game over. Read all the evolving feedback at www.lampzatorforum.com

[omodo]

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Bhobba, sell off your W4S (or whichever is your least fav) and get this!     It might even pip your pdx !!

My gut feeling tells me it will pip the pdx
Go Go Go bill (ozcal!!!! mcb !!!!!) it will pip the satch

at 2700ish it does look like a lot better value than the PDX, which is severely overpriced imho

[gthicm]

It is a great product besting others at higher prices. Great guy making it as well.

Not just my opinion either.

Yes, the truth is out there and armchair quarterbacking wont find it. Try to get a listen and make up your own mind. Mine is!

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The product cant speak for itself if nobody knows of it and nobody auditions it.

I COULD just keep quiet and keep this remarkable discovery to myself or I could try to share by getting the word out. I chose the latter and its my choice to make.

BTW, the Mojo review was done with a March build. The Generation 3 was finalized in April, so they did not even hear the latest build Level 4 with the new summation circuit and tweaked parameters. I know this as my own DAC was updated in July with the latest and greatest. The latest Level 2 will give the older Level for a run for its money. The new Level 4 is game over. Read all the evolving feedback at www.lampzatorforum.com

No problem.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  Lukasz is definitely a great guy and very sincere.  I think however, his claims are overly entusiastic and his enthusiasm is certainly contagious.

As you seem to be very familiar with this product, could you tell everyone what the spdif receiver chip is that is so reolutionary?  Also, what is the summator circuit that seems to convert balanced output to single?  Is it like the Broskie unbalancer circuit?  What are the sonic advantages of this technology?

I tend to scrutinize all claims by a manufacturer with as much information as I can get.  I read on the Lampizator forum that a tube choice for the level 5 is VT99 which the forum administrator claims is rare and dificult to find, and Lukasz claims is the king of soundstage.  This tube is a rather common and cheap 6f8g and is electrically identical to a 6SN7.  It sounds exactly like a 6sn7, so these claims, for example, are great exaggerations at best and BS at worst.  I have over 50 of these tubes in assorted brands including Tungsol roundplates, Raytheon, Sylvania, Kenrad and so on and have paid as little as 2 dollars for a pile of NOS Raytheon.  They are and sound exactly the same as 6sn7, albeit with a different envelope and pinout.  All of theis makes me wonder how many of the other claims are BS.

As I said, I will let time go on and see how this unit stands up to scrutiny by different reviewers and how it compares to other products.  In the meantime, I will employ healthy skepticism.

[zenelectro]

As you seem to be very familiar with this product, could you tell everyone what the spdif receiver chip is that is so reolutionary?  

The only good spdif receiver chip is no receiver chip.

They all must extract bit clock from biphase encoded stream and non can do this any where close to the same quality as a synchronous
I2S system driven by a fixed clock.

All of theis makes me wonder how many of the other claims are BS.

I hear you. The 32 bit non audio dac chip is a good example. Currently for 24 bit's and above audio specific dacs are at the cutting edge.

The only reference to a 32 bit non audio dac that I know of is Agilents E1328A OP module - couldn't find a schematic for it so don't know
what dac's are used.


T

[gthicm]

As you seem to be very familiar with this product, could you tell everyone what the spdif receiver chip is that is so reolutionary?  

The only good spdif receiver chip is no receiver chip.

They all must extract bit clock from biphase encoded stream and non can do this any where close to the same quality as a synchronous
I2S system driven by a fixed clock.

All of theis makes me wonder how many of the other claims are BS.

I hear you. The 32 bit non audio dac chip is a good example. Currently for 24 bit's and above audio specific dacs are at the cutting edge.

The only reference to a 32 bit non audio dac that I know of is Agilents E1328A OP module - couldn't find a schematic for it so don't know
what dac's are used.


T

Good points.  I prefer i2s myself, but it can be difficult to implement.  The more I look at this thing the more worrisome it appears.  To me, the better solution would be to purchase the Buffalo II or Acko dac, use good power supplies, input i2s and go with the Broskie unbalancer for output.  I think chances are pretty good that these well thought out designs that are available on the market for DIY would better the Lamp dac with its melange of cold war surplus, spaghetti wiring and dubious claims.  It seems to me that there is nothing truly breakthrough about this high priced DIY looking production.  Let the dac supplicants and cultists follow whatever Messiah they wish, be it the true or false digital Messiah.

[wisnon]

Your minds are already made up. Good luck to you in your quest.

One thing I know about Lukasz is that he is NOT a BS artist. If you followed his work as long as you said, you would know this too. His receiver chip is a video DSP chip with audio only enabled and its 24 bit.

He recently sold a Buffalo based level 4 DAC on Ebay for less than his normal Level 4...about 1000 british pounds.

One thing is clear, you have never heard these products and it is amusing that you have such deeply held convictions about it. People who have generally have a different impression.

[stevenvalve]

It is a great product besting others at higher prices. Great guy making it as well.

Not just my opinion either.

Yes, the truth is out there and armchair quarterbacking wont find it. Try to get a listen and make up your own mind. Mine is!

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The product cant speak for itself if nobody knows of it and nobody auditions it.

I COULD just keep quiet and keep this remarkable discovery to myself or I could try to share by getting the word out. I chose the latter and its my choice to make.

BTW, the Mojo review was done with a March build. The Generation 3 was finalized in April, so they did not even hear the latest build Level 4 with the new summation circuit and tweaked parameters. I know this as my own DAC was updated in July with the latest and greatest. The latest Level 2 will give the older Level for a run for its money. The new Level 4 is game over. Read all the evolving feedback at www.lampzatorforum.com

Your level of performance here, is at an unknown level. Understand, for me and others here, your idea of great may to some of us, be ordinary. Talk is cheap. As for the feedback at the lampzatorforum forum, what they say is meaningless, allmost all have no idea what great is. The truth is there is so much bullsh!t flying around by the blind, leading the blind.  As for game over, well it never is.

[gthicm]

Arguing with religious zealots and asking perfectly legitimate questions and making valid points to them, is like trying to administer medicine to the dead!