semi-killer dac

[flemo]

With all the interest in the killerdac, it would be interesting to develop a less expensive dac based on the TDA1541 chip and see how far it could be developed for the least dollars? 

Lets face it, most of the killerdacs are a spare no expense proposition for MOST people who own one. 

Based on the knowledge & experience of the people on this forum, it would be interesting to see how close you could go to the killerdac, accepting reasonable limitations and recognising the law of diminished returns, and using modern/new components. 

Personally I have no idea how to do such a thing, but it seems to me something along the lines of the Satch or the Gigaworks little dac with added extras could be achieved.  The beauty of such a task is the cost being somewhat less than we're used to paying for good stuff, if it works??

With all the secondhand dacs on the market, could they be a reasonable proposition if picked up cheap enough?

Anyhoo, it was just a thought, and maybe it could be a lot of fun with several people contributing.  Maybe there could be half a dozen projects on the go at once by various people and those who are able to, could provide feedback, technical advise, or suggestions with the ongoing developments.

Cheers, flemo. 

[ozcal]

Great idea Pete , just sent an email to Steven asking pretty much the same thing.

[kajak12]

ozcol bring your dac down and i can have a look

[ozmillsy]

With all the interest in the killerdac, it would be interesting to develop a less expensive dac based on the TDA1541 chip and see how far it could be developed for the least dollars? 

Lets face it, most of the killerdacs are a spare no expense proposition for MOST people who own one. 

Based on the knowledge & experience of the people on this forum, it would be interesting to see how close you could go to the killerdac, accepting reasonable limitations and recognising the law of diminished returns, and using modern/new components. 

flemo,  if it is to be done properly,  it's got to be from the ground up.   

1) hard core, take an empty pcb like the green dac,  populate it, and assemble all the components around it.
Click-GreenDac

2) take a tda1541a dac kit, assemble it, and tweak it until it sounds like your reference.
Click-TDA1541A kit

It's a matter of re-learning what has already been figured out by Steven and others.  If you have the time, it would be a fun thing to do.

[flemo]

With all the interest in the killerdac, it would be interesting to develop a less expensive dac based on the TDA1541 chip and see how far it could be developed for the least dollars? 

Lets face it, most of the killerdacs are a spare no expense proposition for MOST people who own one. 

Based on the knowledge & experience of the people on this forum, it would be interesting to see how close you could go to the killerdac, accepting reasonable limitations and recognising the law of diminished returns, and using modern/new components. 

flemo,  if it is to be done properly,  it's got to be from the ground up.   

1) hard core, take an empty pcb like the green dac,  populate it, and assemble all the components around it.


Click-GreenDac

2) take a tda1541a dac kit, assemble it, and tweak it until it sounds like your reference.
Click-TDA1541A kit

It's a matter of re-learning what has already been figured out by Steven and others.  If you have the time, it would be a fun thing to do.

Dunno Oz, I'm not a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.  I was thinking there could be a cheap dac or PCB on the market which is relatively okay and shows "potential" for enhancements.  Maybe there isn't anything which would fit this criterea, but they couldn't all be that bad - surely?? 

I wish I had some knowhow with electronics, but as Dirty Harry says - a man's got's to know his limits!

Cheers, flemo. 

[ozmillsy]

Dunno Oz, I'm not a big believer in not reinventing the wheel.  I was thinking there could be a cheap dac or PCB on the market which is relatively okay and shows "potential" for enhancements. 

I reckon that kit from Analog Metric would not be hard.   It provides all the parts required and instructions to assemble.  It's a matter of following the instructions.   Just like the Satch kit.

I imagine from there, it's a matter of systematically going through and changing things 1 at a time,  getting closer and closer to the magic.

I dont think it's hard,  I just think it's a matter of time and patience.   

[tuyen]

I agree with oz.  It took Steve and Paul years to get the killer to how it sounds now.  And they have decades of experience in regards to valves, modications, etc.

Hrmm, it's a hard one..  from all the dac designs for the tda1541 kits I've seen on ebay/diyaudio/ecdesign.. none of them have a circuit that is in anyway similar to the killer.

But in saying that.. kits like the Satch dac  can be tweaked by changing certain parts (ie. output caps, rca input/output, internal wiring, power iec socket, tube) to get it to perform 'better'.    Not sure if I would call it a semi-killer though!     No such thing as semi-killer!   It's either a killer or it isn't

[kajak12]

i hope i will get to play around with a satch dac one day

[mcb]

I, like Gordon, am very interested in finding out what can be achieved with the Satch.  It will be interesting to see where the journey takes us.  However, having heard Mario's and flemo's KD's, I don't think we will be in the same league as the KD.  But it will be interesting to see what improvements can be made.

[mcb]

i hope i will get to play around with a satch dac one day

Mario, one of us will have to go for a drive.

[kajak12]

i hope i will get to play around with a satch dac one day

Mario, one of us will have to go for a drive.

i am ready when you are just pm me.i like to play with new toys

[stevenvalve]

I agree with oz.  It took Steve and Paul years to get the killer to how it sounds now.  And they have decades of experience in regards to valves, modications, etc.

Hrmm, it's a hard one..  from all the dac designs for the tda1541 kits I've seen on ebay/diyaudio/ecdesign.. none of them have a circuit that is in anyway similar to the killer.

But in saying that.. kits like the Satch dac  can be tweaked by changing certain parts (ie. output caps, rca input/output, internal wiring, power iec socket, tube) to get it to perform 'better'.    Not sure if I would call it a semi-killer though!     No such thing as semi-killer!   It's either a killer or it isn't

Now you are talking. These DACs kits are cheap and good fun to play with. So go for it, but i warn you often when i take off all there junk parts from these kits, i end up with a bare board

[ozmillsy]

Now you are talking. These DACs kits are cheap and good fun to play with. So go for it, but i warn you often when i take off all there junk parts from these kits, i end up with a bare board

hehe  , that's why I suggested starting with the bare board.   But if we've never played with a kit, the bare board approach could be too steep a learning curve ?

For me, I wouldnt rule it out down the track,  because I have a genuine interest in wanting to understand how they work.   I just dont have the time at the moment, to assemble a complete kit and modify it.

[ozcal]

ozcol bring your dac down and i can have a look

Thanks Mario

[treblid]

Thanks Mario

If you need a driver to go over to Kajak's place but mcb can't make it on the day, feel free me to give me a call.. In fact I can help Tuyen too by taking delivery of his speakers in that one trip :p..

[omodo]

if you've already got a Satch you're in a pretty good position, search audioasylum for details on Thorsten's modifications to the Satch, considering that he was one of original DIYers of TDA1541 based DACs (look back at his Adagio DAC efforts), plus has been involved in the development of a number of DAC projects over the years, you can be sure what he is doing is on the right path.

[omodo]

actually, here you go: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tubediy/messages/18/186182.html

[ozcal]

Thanks omodo , very helpful.
Gordon

[mcb]

i hope i will get to play around with a satch dac one day

Mario, one of us will have to go for a drive.

i am ready when you are just pm me.i like to play with new toys

Will do Mario, it won't be this weekend however.

[ozcal]

Thanks Mario

If you need a driver to go over to Kajak's place but mcb can't make it on the day, feel free me to give me a call.. In fact I can help Tuyen too by taking delivery of his speakers in that one trip :p..

Thanks treb very kind of you.My health doesn't normally allow me to make long trips so I guess we will have to get Mario up here for a weekend