DAC Project- build or modify or ?

[Tjbroski792012]

Hey guys, I am new to this board, and the whole world of modding electrical components in general. I am hoping that one of you guys could possibly help me in my endever of either having someone build me  a really good dac, or suggest an off the shelf dac that I could have modded. or possibly help me build a dac myself. I am not really sure on where to start with this. I pmed "K" just a few minutes ago in regards to having him build me a dac. Is he the same person as Stephen? If not, how do I get in contact with him? Anyway, here are my basic questions;

1. How hard is it to build a dac yourself? Do I need to study electrical engineering for a while before getting started? Or are there designs out there that have some sort of instructions to follow?

2. Are there any dacs that you guys could recommend that I could pick up and have modded by either a board member here or possibly by myself? What mods deliver the best ratio or cost to performance? I have looked at possibly a Music Hall 15.2 or 25.2, a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, and also a Musical Fidelity V-Dac. Are those very easy to modify or are there any others that you might suggest?

3. Which board members do you recommend I contact to possibly have them build me a dac or modify an off the shelf dac? Email addys or phone numbers?

I wish I would have found this board a long time ago! Seems to be a great place with lots of friendly folks! Any help and/or advise you people could give me would be greatly appreciated!

[kajak12]

Hey guys, I am new to this board, and the whole world of modding electrical components in general. I am hoping that one of you guys could possibly help me in my endever of either having someone build me  a really good dac, or suggest an off the shelf dac that I could have modded. or possibly help me build a dac myself. I am not really sure on where to start with this. I pmed "K" just a few minutes ago in regards to having him build me a dac. Is he the same person as Stephen? If not, how do I get in contact with him? Anyway, here are my basic questions;

1. How hard is it to build a dac yourself? Do I need to study electrical engineering for a while before getting started? Or are there designs out there that have some sort of instructions to follow?

2. Are there any dacs that you guys could recommend that I could pick up and have modded by either a board member here or possibly by myself? What mods deliver the best ratio or cost to performance? I have looked at possibly a Music Hall 15.2 or 25.2, a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, and also a Musical Fidelity V-Dac. Are those very easy to modify or are there any others that you might suggest?

3. Which board members do you recommend I contact to possibly have them build me a dac or modify an off the shelf dac? Email addys or phone numbers?

I wish I would have found this board a long time ago! Seems to be a great place with lots of friendly folks! Any help and/or advise you people could give me would be greatly appreciated!

What is your budget??? to spend on dac

[Tjbroski792012]

Hey guys, I am new to this board, and the whole world of modding electrical components in general. I am hoping that one of you guys could possibly help me in my endever of either having someone build me  a really good dac, or suggest an off the shelf dac that I could have modded. or possibly help me build a dac myself. I am not really sure on where to start with this. I pmed "K" just a few minutes ago in regards to having him build me a dac. Is he the same person as Stephen? If not, how do I get in contact with him? Anyway, here are my basic questions;

1. How hard is it to build a dac yourself? Do I need to study electrical engineering for a while before getting started? Or are there designs out there that have some sort of instructions to follow?

2. Are there any dacs that you guys could recommend that I could pick up and have modded by either a board member here or possibly by myself? What mods deliver the best ratio or cost to performance? I have looked at possibly a Music Hall 15.2 or 25.2, a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, and also a Musical Fidelity V-Dac. Are those very easy to modify or are there any others that you might suggest?

3. Which board members do you recommend I contact to possibly have them build me a dac or modify an off the shelf dac? Email addys or phone numbers?

I wish I would have found this board a long time ago! Seems to be a great place with lots of friendly folks! Any help and/or advise you people could give me would be greatly appreciated!

What is your budget??? to spend on dac

As far as my budget is concerned, I really don't have a specific number in mind as I am building this system from the ground up, having only the speakers at this point in time. My budget for the whole system-preamp, amp, dac & cd player, is around $2,000 to $3,000.00. Right now I want to start with a somewhat cheaper dac, in the price range of say $300.00 to $700.00. I am not really sure how much it cost to have one built, or to build one myself, or to modify an existing dac. I have a buddy that has a Music Hall 15.2 and he will let me have it for next to nothing, so with that in mind, I am considering trying to modifying the Music Hall 15.2 in hopes of bringing some better sound quality into the unit. My overall goal is to end up with a dac that performs as well as a Wyred 4 Sounds Dac1 and a Benchmark Dac1. Any suggestions?

[kajak12]

Get a audiogd dac wired forsound and benchmark are just ordinary dacs

[Tjbroski792012]

What is an Audiogd dac and where do I purchase it? Are there any mods that I could do for an off the shelf dac? Specifically the Music Hall 15.2? Also, in regards to preamps, I am highly considering the Parasound 2100. Are there any mods that could be done with this preamp or any other off the shelf units? I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

[kajak12]

What is an Audiogd dac and where do I purchase it? Are there any mods that I could do for an off the shelf dac? Specifically the Music Hall 15.2? Also, in regards to preamps, I am highly considering the Parasound 2100. Are there any mods that could be done with this preamp or any other off the shelf units? I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

Have you got any technical knowledge?

[Tjbroski792012]

What is an Audiogd dac and where do I purchase it? Are there any mods that I could do for an off the shelf dac? Specifically the Music Hall 15.2? Also, in regards to preamps, I am highly considering the Parasound 2100. Are there any mods that could be done with this preamp or any other off the shelf units? I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

Have you got any technical knowledge?

I have a decent amount of technical knowledge. Enough to feel comfortable installing some various components.

[Tjbroski792012]

What is an Audiogd dac and where do I purchase it? Are there any mods that I could do for an off the shelf dac? Specifically the Music Hall 15.2? Also, in regards to preamps, I am highly considering the Parasound 2100. Are there any mods that could be done with this preamp or any other off the shelf units? I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm

Have you got any technical knowledge?

I have a decent amount of technical knowledge. Enough to feel comfortable installing some various components.

I have a decent amount of technical knowledge. Enough to feel comfortable installing some various electrical components.

[data]

What about this one for sale here http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php?topic=731.0

Has a nice custom case and some mods done.

[tam lin]

I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

Hi, I’m new to this forum, too. I suggest you reconsider building from scratch. It will take far more effort but the potential is much greater. The modding I see here and in other forums amounts to just tinkering around the edges. As I see it, the Satch Max DAC, linked to in the above post, has several fundamental flaws that cannot be addressed by swapping capacitors. Similar flaws are prominent in nearly all the inexpensive DACs that are popular with modders.

For starters, the S/PDIF receiver is a CS8414 mounted on a DIP adapter. The CS8412/14 is ancient technology and the addition of the adapter makes it perform at its worst. It is imperative that bypass capacitors be mounted as close as possible to the power and ground pins of the IC. Even more important is placement of the PLL filter components. It is so important some data sheets include a suggested PCB layout to achieve the best performance. If the S/PDIF receiver is not optimum, adding boutique parts elsewhere in the circuit isn’t going to fix it.

I have an older AD1865 DAC and the first mod I did was to replace the CS8412 with a CS8415A that emulates the operation of a CS8412 in mode 6 using surface mount parts on a small PCB. Visible in the bottom view (on the right) is the CS8415A with bypass caps soldered directly to the IC’s pins. The improvement I experienced was beyond anything I could have imagined and it convinced me of the importance of observing proper digital circuit layout. As a result, I gave up my modding efforts and started designing my own DAC because that was the only way I could insure attention to every detail I thought important.

[ozmillsy]

Hi tam,

Welcome to the forum.

1 of the most common mod's in this little community is to bypass spdif senders/receivers altogether!

Take the I2S signal off the transport, pass it direct into the Dac chip. 

This mod was a major leap in playback transparency and coherency on my system.  Definetly worth exploring.

[tam lin]

I2S is fine for distances of an inch or two but it is not suitable for longer connections. The only problem with S/PDIF is nearly every serial input DAC chip uses the recovered bit clock for the sample clock. This use was not intended when S/PDIF was designed.

I prefer S/PDIF to transmit the data, only, use a crystal oscillator next to the DAC chip to provide the local clocks, and export a master clock to sync the digital source. Compared to I2S, S/PDIF is a real digital transport protocol that uses phase-modulated encoding with parity checking. I like error free data.

[tuyen]

Good point Tam. I have experimented with i2s lengths and have always found when the connections are as direct as possible, always given the better sonic result. Both my dacs are running direct i2s connections of <2cm between the modules.

Cheers
Tuyen

[ozmillsy]

Good point Tam. I have experimented with i2s lengths and have always found when the connections are as direct as possible, always given the better sonic result. Both my dacs are running direct i2s connections of <2cm between the modules.

Cheers
Tuyen

Ensuring strong voltage at the source overcomes distance issues.    I use 55cm interconnects, and it is significantly better than spdif from the same transport.

[tuyen]

hi oz,

how do you manage or control the voltage at the source?  i've only ever wired the units directly up with cat5, no buffers/regulators/trimpots inbetween.

 ive found i2s better than spdif with the cd94. but then again the cd94 uses the cs8412/4? which is reported to be an old/bad chip compared to more modern units.  So not sure if I can completely rule spdif always being detrimental to the signal into a dac.   What about DEM reclocking? I'm not that technical, but does that overcome some of the issues? As a few highly reported tda1541 dacs feature this.

I can recommend if possible, trying 1-2cm connections  and compare them to your current 55cm.   I noticed sharper more precise imaging of the soundstage. Which makes the sound feel more open and 3d.

The zanden dac which uses spdif still so good, one of the best tda1541 dac, even when using the same transport.  Pity it price is quite high.

[kajak12]

hi oz,



The zanden dac which uses spdif still so good, one of the best tda1541 dac, even when using the same transport.  Pity it price is quite high.

I bet zenden will be better running i2s

[kajak12]

I am really starting to shy away from building anything myself, from the ground up. It looks like a custom built dac is out of my price range, so that leaves modding existing off the shelf units. I see guys talking about moddified pramps, amps, cd players, dacs, all the time. So I know there has to be some way of improving the stock units. Any suggestions?

Hi, I’m new to this forum, too. I suggest you reconsider building from scratch. It will take far more effort but the potential is much greater. The modding I see here and in other forums amounts to just tinkering around the edges. As I see it, the Satch Max DAC, linked to in the above post, has several fundamental flaws that cannot be addressed by swapping capacitors. Similar flaws are prominent in nearly all the inexpensive DACs that are popular with modders.

For starters, the S/PDIF receiver is a CS8414 mounted on a DIP adapter. The CS8412/14 is ancient technology and the addition of the adapter makes it perform at its worst. It is imperative that bypass capacitors be mounted as close as possible to the power and ground pins of the IC. Even more important is placement of the PLL filter components. It is so important some data sheets include a suggested PCB layout to achieve the best performance. If the S/PDIF receiver is not optimum, adding boutique parts elsewhere in the circuit isn’t going to fix it.

I have an older AD1865 DAC and the first mod I did was to replace the CS8412 with a CS8415A that emulates the operation of a CS8412 in mode 6 using surface mount parts on a small PCB. Visible in the bottom view (on the right) is the CS8415A with bypass caps soldered directly to the IC’s pins. The improvement I experienced was beyond anything I could have imagined and it convinced me of the importance of observing proper digital circuit layout. As a result, I gave up my modding efforts and started designing my own DAC because that was the only way I could insure attention to every detail I thought important.

what improvements in sound quality did you hear between receiver chips?
what system are you running amps,dac,speakers etc?

[kajak12]

  So not sure if I can completely rule spdif always being detrimental to the signal into a dac.   What about DEM reclocking? I'm not that technical, but does that overcome some of the issues? As a few highly reported tda1541 dacs feature this.

i2s will always be ahead of any spdif just ask zenelectro for technical jargon........
regarding dem reclocking depends what clocks and power supply's are used i hope zenelectro will have something this year for me to try.

[ozmillsy]

how do you manage or control the voltage at the source?  i've only ever wired the units directly up with cat5, no buffers/regulators/trimpots inbetween.

Danny fitted an output buffer with regulated voltage on the i2s outputs.   This has worked absolutely brilliantly.   I was not prepared to have open cdp/Dac cases, and wires running in between, with kids running around.   

I will be trying a JKeny Hiface with i2s output at some stage.  If this gets close to the cd94, then I will fit it internally in the Dac with short wiring.

[tam lin]

what improvements in sound quality did you hear between receiver chips?
what system are you running amps,dac,speakers etc?

I made the S/PDIF receiver gizmo several years ago to experiment with DAC linearity. At the time, my audio system was CD-based, no PC, and the only way I could modify the sample data was with hardware.

The AD1865 is an 18-bit DAC. Shifting the sample data one or two bits to the right, preserving the sign bit, would not truncate the data but move the conversion into a different position in the R/2R network and perhaps change the sound quality. I wasn't expecting the new receiver chip to make any difference. The digital-analog conversion in the AD1865 is triggered by word clock, not the bit clock as it is in most other serial input DAC chips. The chips in the CS841x series all generate the word clock (aka FSYNC) based on the timing of the S/PDIF preambles and is not dependent on the PLL.

I was surprised by the improved clarity and resolution. An additional benefit was the ability to receive sample rates up to 192K even though the CS1815A is only rated to 96K. I attributed all that to the careful layout of the digital circuit surrounding the receiver chip. The experience also encouraged me to quickly migrate to PC-based digital audio and design my own DAC.

At the time, my audio system included:
Speakers: Avantgarde Acoustic Trio (Omega);
Amp: Art Audio Jota (monoblocks); 
Preamp: Hovland HP-100 with MC phono stage;
Vinyl: SME-30, SME IV-Vi, Cardas Heart;
CD: Sony 707ESD, Audio Note DAC 1.2;
Cables: DIY;
Power: Equi=Tech 1.5RQ & 2.0RQ;
Stands: Grand Prix Audio Monaco.