Tranquility DAC

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

I think guys on this forum will be very interested in the investigations myself and Mike Lenehan are doing into the Tranquility DAC.  Here is Mikes initial thoughts from another forum:

Bill had a normal Laptop and I think he was using I River (it was J River) software. First impressions were ! well a little underwhelming. Nice and smooth to be sure , top end seemed a little down to me and the bass was Ahh lazy ! It did nothing wrong but it did nothing right either ! the ConnorNM24 (that's Mike's reference DAC - a heavily tweaked PCM 1704 that is up there with the Killer DAC - ranked just behind it at the shootout according to Steve - it was the only other one actually sounding REAL) killed it in my view. OK so bill leaves and I thought I’d just drop my Compaq laptop on and feed it some of my wav files from I tunes. HOLY SMOKE what just happened, It was instantly competitive with the NM24. This little alloy brick thingy must be very sensitive to what USB signal it’s fed. More on this device soon when we feed it with a Mac mini ( as recommended by Eric Hider ) It did however trail behind the NM24 overall and particularly in the bass , being still a touch inarticulate and rounded. Resolution was very good with no hardness or detectable digititis evident Perhaps with MacMini integration we could have a real competitor. Although Mr Hider has’nt stated what DAC is being used it sounds very 1704 ish to me.

Ok what I am doing is investigating tweaking my Mac Mini with recommendations Eric Hider has given me to optimize it for the Tranquility.  We will then give it another whirl.  Watch this space.  But right now it is competitive with Mikes reference DAC which is itself competitive with the Killer DAC - and the Tranquility is much cheaper.  It may not exceed the Killer DAC or even equal it - but it can only get better and already it is competitive - and it is quite a good deal cheaper and computer audio is really convenient.

Thanks
Bill

[tuyen]

Sounds very promising Bill.  I like the idea of simple signal path.   I remember seeing a photo of its internals. Any chance of reposting it here?  I can't seem to find any.

Would love to hear the little unit one day

[bhobba]

Sounds very promising Bill.  I like the idea of simple signal path.   I remember seeing a photo of its internals. Any chance of reposting it here?  I can't seem to find any. Would love to hear the little unit one day

Hi Tuyen

Here is a picture of the internals:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75402.280

Personally I will not open mine up as I know Eric has done a lot of work designing this thing and I respect the propriety information opening it up may reveal.  I know of guys who have done it such as the link above, and others as well.  But out of respect for the work that went into it to make it competitive against a DAC like the Killer DAC I not only will not do it and will ask anyone I lend it to to not do it as well.  People will not put the time and effort into creating a product like this if people can reverse engineer it and us Audiophile's will be the poorer.

But for the good news - after we have finished with it here in Brisbane it's going, along with Mike's PDX, to Mario so you guys can compare them both to the Killer DAC.  I am not sure it will equal the Killer (I am pretty sure it wont actually), little alone exceed it, but it its comparable to Mike's DAC right now, and that is comparable to the Killer so it certainty looks promising.  I think as a minimum it will be a DAC Steve says makes real music, but at a significantly less price than the Killer - and you don't need a statement transport either plus you have the convenience of computer audio.  And exactly how far it gets to it is the question - which is hopefully what you guys can help with.

Thanks
Bill

[kajak12]

cant wait bill i will invite all the members in perth i am sure they will buy tickets for the audition of the dac.
oh and we also need a mac mini i dont have one unless somebody in perth has

[Hens]

hahah, to Marios you say, I'd better start packing my tent then.

[treblid]

This could well be placebo (or driver related), but if this DAC works under Linux do give that OS a go and see if that makes a difference...

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

OK previously I had been listening to the Tranquility down at Mike's.  I have now got it connected to my system.  Not with the NAKSA which is my preferred amp, but a little Redgum I have which at $550.00 is staggeringly good value for money.  I am using it because it has a remote volume and I don't have a pre amp.  Thats the reason I sent the NAKSA over to Mario for you Perth guys to check out - I can't really use it while I am using the Tranquility.  As good as that little Redgum is the NAKSA is at a different level.  Anyway the Redgum IMHO is more than transparent enough to hear the differences in DAC's.

OK to the sound.  The first thing I notice is a complete absence of digititus of any form.  You relax more into the music.  The WFS had a slight sibilance issue IMHO.  Interestingly when I listen to the Tranquility it is not so much getting rid of the sibilance as changing how it sounds.  If the sibilance is there you still hear it but is does not seem to grate - instead of clinching and saying thats not nice you go Ahhh.  No coldness or anything like that - simply nice fluidity and liquidity.  It seems to have exactly the same detail as the WFS which I find quite interesting since that is that DAC's strong point.  Is it up to Killer DAC standard? Afraid not.  Comparable - yes but not quite as good.  Is it a significant step up from anything in its price range? Without doubt.  Would it be what Steve Garland calls making music?  That's a hard one - to my ears - yes but I know Steve has heard a lot more stuff than me so maybe not to him.  Anyway with the surging Australian dollar it is unbelievable value at about $1400.00 landed here.  Right now both Mike and myself prefer the DAC he is working on, the PDX, which is still in prototype.  But when finalized it will be a bit more expensive than the Tranquility.  Interestingly Mike has found some recordings that the Tranquility sounds better on. I conjecture this has to do with the quality of the recording.  The Tranquility is dead neutral.  If you have a crappy recording it sounds crappy - if it is good it sounds good.  For some reason the PDX does not seem to be like that - crappy recordings do not sound as crappy.  Anyway this is just conjecture - getting to the bottom of it will involve a lot more investigation.

Also I have just found out the signature version has been finalized and it is on its way over to Mikes.  It is supposed to be a significant step up - we will find out. Just switched to some Dianna Krall - man does she sound so good on this DAC.

One thing I just discovered is that playing back from the MAC's internal drive is quite a good deal better than from an external USB drive.  This probably explains why when we first tried it out using my USB drive it was rather ho hum.  But when Mike tried it later with his machine using its hard drive - wow.  Eric reckons using his recommended firewire drive it will be even better again.  After finding this out both Mike and myself are ordering one.

Thanks
Bill  

[Hens]

It must be quite the dac to make Diana Krall sound good, haha.

Should be pretty interesting, I'd love to test the Naska when it comes to Perth as well, luckily I have a preamp.

[bhobba]

Should be pretty interesting, I'd love to test the Naska when it comes to Perth as well, luckily I have a preamp.

Evidently Mike will be sending it to Mario tomorrow.  Just keep in touch with him (as I think you do anyway) and when it arrives I am sure what you find out will be very interesting.  It doesn't really sound like a solid state amp and to some degree not like a valve amp either - I describe it like a digital amp done right ie no glare or sibilance control issues. Guys who know about valve stuff say it like a transparent SET which is what Hugh was trying to achieve.

Thanks
Bill 

[stevenvalve]

Should be pretty interesting, I'd love to test the Naska when it comes to Perth as well, luckily I have a preamp.

Evidently Mike will be sending it to Mario tomorrow.  Just keep in touch with him (as I think you do anyway) and when it arrives I am sure what you find out will be very interesting.  It doesn't really sound like a solid state amp and to some degree not like a valve amp either - I describe it like a digital amp done right ie no glare or sibilance control issues. Guys who know about valve stuff say it like a transparent SET which is what Hugh was trying to achieve.

Thanks
Bill 

It will be interesting to see if these newer dacs are capable making music. I think you need to modify with valve output and rectifier, also a change in the cheap capacitors they use, to something (not electrolytic) with more timber and musical weight. After all for the price of this dac you cannot expect premium parts.

[bhobba]

It will be interesting to see if these newer dacs are capable making music. I think you need to modify with valve output and rectifier, also a change in the cheap capacitors they use, to something (not electrolytic) with more timber and musical weight. After all for the price of this dac you cannot expect premium parts.

Hi Steve.

I think you heard the NAKSA down at Mikes - it was the amp I mentioned used a new and unique topology and you thought there is not really anything new under the sun.  I know the designer Hugh Dean is pretty experienced with capacitors and interestingly he found with this amp the better capacitors didn't really make much difference.  We will find out how successful he was.  I really like the amp and others who have heard it do as well.  However it is a bit different so how the Killer DAC guys in Perth rate it will be very interesting.

The Tranquility DAC is in fact a bog standard 44.1/16 DAC using an old style chip just like the Killer and uses quite good capacitors.  They initially used Mundorf Supreme but found a cap they thought was better.  It is not as good as Duelunds but Mike knows them and he reckons they are very good.  They would love to use Duelands but want to keep costs under control.  I have this DAC in my system and while it is not as good as the Killer it is pretty darn good. However the DAC I will be sending to Perth will probably be the signature version which I have been told uses a unique output stage that has never been tried before - not solid state, not valve and not transformer.  Now I have zero idea what it could be since that seems to cover it all, but that is what they say.  And like you they have a lot of issues with the newer DAC chips.  They are bringing one to market but are having a devil of a time getting it as good as their current DAC.  Anyway it will be very interesting to see how it compares to the Killer.

Thanks
Bill  

[kajak12]

cant wait for the tranquility dac big gtg when it arrives

[zenelectro]

It will be interesting to see if these newer dacs are capable making music. I think you need to modify with valve output and rectifier, also a change in the cheap capacitors they use, to something (not electrolytic) with more timber and musical weight. After all for the price of this dac you cannot expect premium parts.

Hi Steve.

I think you heard the NAKSA down at Mikes - it was the amp I mentioned used a new and unique topology and you thought there is not really anything new under the sun.  I know the designer Hugh Dean is pretty experienced with capacitors and interestingly he found with this amp the better capacitors didn't really make much difference.  We will find out how successful he was.  I really like the amp and others who have heard it do as well.  However it is a bit different so how the Killer DAC guys in Perth rate it will be very interesting.

I know Hugh pretty well, we often have technical 'brainstorming' sessions on the phone - he's a good guy! From what I do know, I can say the NAKSA is genuinely
quite unique and that's not just marketing hype. It comes as no surporise - Hugh is one of the most lateral thinkers I have ever met.

WRT swapping components such as caps etc, generally the more technically savvy a designer is, the less they tend to rely ultimately on component quality but more
on topologies and design to tailor the sound. Everything makes a difference but IMO the order of importance is 1)Topology / layout / operating point 2)Components 3) Wire etc
Obviously there are always exceptions but this is generally the way it is. 

Unfortunately what also frequently happens is the more technically savvy a designer becomes, the more they rely on measurements
and theoretically correct designs as opposed to listening as the final arbiter - which can be suicidal sonically. This doesn't change the hierachy above, it just
means that those with the power to make potentially the best sounding designs don't end up with them. Kind of funny this game
     

The Tranquility DAC is in fact a bog standard 44.1/16 DAC using an old style chip just like the Killer and uses quite good capacitors.  They initially used Mundorf Supreme but found a cap they thought was better.  It is not as good as Duelunds but Mike knows them and he reckons they are very good.  They would love to use Duelands but want to keep costs under control.  I have this DAC in my system and while it is not as good as the Killer it is pretty darn good. However the DAC I will be sending to Perth will probably be the signature version which I have been told uses a unique output stage that has never been tried before - not solid state, not valve and not transformer.  Now I have zero idea what it could be since that seems to cover it all, but that is what they say.  And like you they have a lot of issues with the newer DAC chips.  They are bringing one to market but are having a devil of a time getting it as good as their current DAC.  Anyway it will be very interesting to see how it compares to the Killer.

WRT Tranquility OP stage, no SS/tube/transformers used means it will almost certainly have a simple resistor I-V op stage. The DAC is most likely
a TDA1543 because this is one of the few 0xOS friendly DAC's that work very well with a simple resistor OP stage and has the ability to swing the
required voltage without additional circuitry.   

Here's a really nice example of that topology, designed by Peter Daniel of Audiosector, a talented designer that shares a large portion of what he does.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1195246&stamp=1177717622
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1195254&stamp=1177718078

cheers

Terry

[bhobba]

cant wait for the tranquility dac big gtg when it arrives

Great to hear Mario.  In the mean time I confirmed Mike has sent the Naksa to you and I look forwared to hearing what you and the other Perth guys think.

I am listening to Katie Melua right now using the Tranquility and a program I downloaded called Pure Music.  So much more vivid, real and alive than Itunes - leaves it in the dust.  The Tranquility signature version is on the way and that is the version you will get after Mike and I have checked it out.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

WRT Tranquility OP stage, no SS/tube/transformers used means it will almost certainly have a simple resistor I-V op stage. The DAC is most likely a TDA1543 because this is one of the few 0xOS friendly DAC's that work very well with a simple resistor OP stage and has the ability to swing the required voltage without additional circuitry.

 

Hi Terry

No that's not it. Whatever it is they have patented it.  My supicion is it's some kind of non standard solid state stage using someting like a diamond amp. Here is what they said:

The Tranquility Signature Edition dac is our latest "top shelf" of our Tranquility NOS dac series.

Circuit enhancements: The Signature Edition is based around the same original dac chipset as utilized within the Tranquility but with MANY added enhancements. The interior circuit board and component layouts are entirely new. We've doubled the size of the power supply and added associated capacitance, enhanced the bridge with new rectifiers, tweaked the regulator circuits and further refined the electrical parameters throughout. MOST importantly, we have incorporated an innovative circuit that is BRAND NEW TO HIGH END Audio! It is situated just after the dac chipset and has a serious impact on improving a dac's inner most resolution. We are patenting it too! Don't expect to see this refinement in any other digital product anytime soon  

Sonic attributes: As compared to the original Tranquility you will hear improvements to all music characterizations throughout the entire frequency range. The smallest characterizations that define the "inner soul" of music are more readily apparent. Some would label this as "more transparent sounding'" but we think the newfound character of this dac is something very unique to digital audio. Sound staging is also further focused. Dynamic contrasts are also more profound particularly in the lowest frequency registers. Can we say over the top dynamics from an NOS design Sophistication and delicacy are at levels that bring us even closer to our own absolute reference, analog mater tapes.

Thanks
Bill

[kajak12]

eric is a master at marketing he knows what he is doing he lost me when he mentions BLIND TESTING on his website

[bhobba]

eric is a master at marketing he knows what he is doing he lost me when he mentions BLIND TESTING on his website

For sure.

Blind testing is not that hard to grasp.  They simply do a blind listening test comparing it to a master tape whenever they make a change to see if it gets closer or not.  However it's just a philosophy with pros and cons.  Mike tries to voice his stuff to be as close as possible to what he hears at live events.  What we found is that on most recordings Mikes DAC sounds a bit better but on some recordings the Tranquility sounds better.  It is conjectured the recordings that sound better are those that are recorded well - which is the weakness of his approach - crap recording sound crap.

Anyway the real proof is in the hearing.

Thanks
Bill

[zenelectro]

No that's not it. Whatever it is they have patented it.  My supicion is it's some kind of non standard solid state stage using someting like a diamond amp. Here is what they said:

Bill,

In your above post you said it was "not solid state, not valve and not transformer" - that's why I suggested the 'R'.

Sounds interesting.

See if you can find out what the patent number is or who filed it, I'm curious to read it.

cheers

Terry

[bhobba]

In your above post you said it was "not solid state, not valve and not transformer" - that's why I suggested the 'R'. Sounds interesting. See if you can find out what the patent number is or who filed it, I'm curious to read it.

Hi Terry

I can see that.  Exactly what it is will be very interesting. I will be speaking to Eric tonight about when the Signature will be arriving and will see if that can be done.

Thanks
Bill

[omodo]

I remember reading a comment about the matched FETs they use, or the special grade FETs they source then re-match to an even tighter tolerance, so I'm guessing (ass-uming) it would be some type of discrete active output stage (I'll try find the thread/post again)