Author Topic: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192  (Read 166536 times)

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2012, 07:35:42 AM »
well. it seems that we are all longing and struggeling for perfect reproduction in high resolution music...

time has come, that Doede has found some time to explain his thoughts, ideas, prototypes, power supplies... with his new DDDAC 1784-NOS 24-182... it is still not yet totally completed, but what he writes is already a very deep view into the "real" thing...

for all those of you DIYers who might be interested in following his developments, please feel free to go here:

http://www.dddac.com/dddac1794.html

and on the right side you have different knobs to choose from what you might want to know...

there is as well a very very interesting explanation (theory) in parallelising chips and their benefits in amelioration of sound...

happy reading...

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2012, 09:50:05 AM »
Hi Reinhard,

My kit should be arriving next week.  Should be fun to put together and listen to many of the hi-res material I have been collecting.

You are currently using capacitor or transformer coupled output at the moment?    Which one do you prefer more, sound-wise?

I will have to use lab power supply to power the unit at first, but will slowly collect needed parts to build the proper power supply circuit which Doede says brings much improvement.

Excited to try something new!

crazikid

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2012, 10:10:32 AM »
Hi tuyen,
Have you noticed a difference using a lab power supply in your audio config

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2012, 11:59:55 AM »
Hi crazi,

the differences were never massive to my ears, but they were still there. a proper designed linear psu or battery did usually give an improvement.   i've yet to run my 60-120chip dddac1543 via proper linear psu, so I guess I still haven't even heard the best from it.   What's interesting though,  I think the sound is still nicer when running 120 chips with smps psu  then 24chips with linear psu or battery.    no doubt a 120-240chip unit powered by well designed linear psu like the guys over Germany are using would be on a much higher level again in terms of sq.


Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2012, 11:33:03 PM »
Hi Reinhard,

My kit should be arriving next week.  Should be fun to put together and listen to many of the hi-res material I have been collecting.

You are currently using capacitor or transformer coupled output at the moment?    Which one do you prefer more, sound-wise?

I will have to use lab power supply to power the unit at first, but will slowly collect needed parts to build the proper power supply circuit which Doede says brings much improvement.

Excited to try something new!

Hi tuyen,

congratulations on your decision ! you will not regret... and yes, a proper controlled power supply will bring you the most, and that's the secret: right from the beginning... it is the same with analogue tape recordings: what you do not put in, you cannot get out...

well, it is not so as if we would not and have not experiment(ed) with analogue tape recordings, this is all extremely convincing (see Stefano's results over at his site), but at least us here have to face that we do not have a single master recording at home or of our own, and will never have... so we strongly have to care for all our favorite music which is - and will be - stored digital, and here within different formats... so, the research for us will concentrate further on DACs...

regarding your question: my situation is still the same since the last few weeks, and I am as content as I have never been before in my HiFi-life... my new single DDDAC 24 bit DAC is now burnt it (which indeed brought more amelioration than I initially expected: coherency, focus, naturalness... which really came totally to the point in combination with time alignment - so please do not forget about this)

meanwhile I have switched to Windows 7 and implemented the corresponding programs and drivers, and -although completely within the digital area - this still brought the reproduced sound (I wonder how) further in the intended direction bringing big satisfying smiles on one's face...

all the other things that are actually indicated on Doede's site are still very very new and only basically implemented in our systems, and we still have to try them all out in detail within our different systems, and that will happen during the next weeks and months, but at least at the moment everything is focused on the preparation to get it "just exactly perfect" for the "Japanese Session" at the beginning of December...

till then we will have the possibility to try out Doede's private DDDAC with the new Sowters... one has to keep in mind that the (normal) DDDAC 1543 is running with 1,6 Volt and the new DDDAC only with 1,2 Volt, so there an adjustment to 2 Volt is needed which is not yet done but will be, for both DACs...

so, we are in the same boat with experimenting, from my experiences I lastly always vote for "nothing in the signal path"...

let me wish you happy building, and please tell me about your results...

P.S. I have read that Angelo meanwhile has switched to Jean Hiraga amps and is extremely satisfied... so, why don't you follow ? If I have it right in mind then you had already started and bought all the necessary parts quite some time ago, didn't you?

« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 05:17:38 AM by rhlauranna »

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2012, 03:36:51 PM »
Hi Reinhard,

Thanks for your support. Will let you know how it goes.

You only just moved to Windows 7?!    Windows 8 was released over the weekend and users have already made mention that they are finding improvements in sound! :)

Another thing that brings sq improvement is using solid state harddrives for your computer/laptop.  That is something I can recommend after switching to SSD on my netbook which I have been using as transport.        I will do the same with my mac mini  workstation.

As you already know, power supply is critical in audio equipment. Should look into finding ways to improve that aspect of your computer. Are you using a desktop workstation or laptop?   Standard desktop workstation power supplies are not optimal for audio.      Something that might be worth looking into. https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/power-supplies/nanoatx Not cheap though...

A friend recently added a Mojo Audio PS into his mac mini and reports audible worthwhile improvements. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOJO-AUDIO-ULTRALOW-NOISE-MAC-MINI-POWER-SUPPLY-WORKS-w-ANY-AGE-MAC-MINI-/320901187633

I am using the hiraga-based 20watt classe a amp to power the sg-38wn woofers, at the moment.   I've got a hiraga le monstre 8watt class a amp that I nearly finished wiring up.   Will try it on the horn channels (system is bi-amped) later on :)

Do you run a custom active electronic crossover unit? or do you have passive line level circuits built into each separate amp?

The "Japanese" session will be great!  Very interested on how it turns out and some photos please!    I hope to go to Japan next year, so will organise to visit Sanichi and Co...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 06:30:42 PM by tuyen »

Offline ozcal

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2012, 06:40:42 PM »
Looking forward to hearing your new dac T, price is not to bad either :D
Listening with my ears :)

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2012, 11:00:10 AM »
No probs G.  Happy to also bring it over when I get it cased up and running off a proper power supply :)

Plan to case up the 120chip DDDAC as well (will be a darn big case), so that'll be available too!

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2012, 10:15:56 PM »
tuyen,

this is really good news...

nice to read about your progresses with your Hiraga amps... switching to class A, active driving frequency deviders and a controlled power supply with your DACs are the biggest steps you can make in amelioration of sound... they are that dramatic that you will no longer recognize your system nor music... you will have to relisten all over again...

by the way, all the positive effects with the controlled power supply with your new DAC are effective for every single part within your amplification chain... as the ameliorations are that dramatic Klaus and Bernd have just begun to built some twenty power amps, i.e. five way and one mono bloc for each driver...

and yes, the computer... the most unreliable part in all our HiFi-chains... this indeed will be the next part which we will concentrate on... we will build a complete power supply with all these different voltages and that stable as we have positively experienced within the other amplification parts in our chain that are already running with it...

but there is one more specific thing: as Doede has proven within his new DAC (severely listenable for us all) that getting rid of USB and corresponding cable transport and connection parts leads to a rather incredible amelioration in sound, we will try to take the digital signal directly from the motherboard and handle it to our needs... that really would be great fun if more DIYers could/would concentrate on this and discuss the results here...

SSD... yes, you are right, amelioration in sound as well, and already standard for all of us here...

Windows 8... well, that's very interesting to hear and I just informed Doede about that what you have heard... it would make sense if you could specify with what exactly (programs, drivers, adjustments...) the amelioration has been reached exactly...

regarding your question: yes, my frequency deviders are custom made class A with separated and controlled power supply...

well, the last part in my chain, the new DDDAC 24 Bit - although it is the first to begin with - now delivers absolutely perfect squares as well, and that is one of the best kept secrets in HIFi-reproduction for me, which hardly anybody really seems to care for down to the bone, not only to generate these squares, but also to transport them through the complete amplification chain and then to reproduce them best way possible with best possible (affordable) drivers... but to reach that, you not only will have to listen but to measure precisely...

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 02:38:24 AM by rhlauranna »

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2012, 01:55:07 PM »
Hi Reinhard,

Just installed Windows 8 Professional last night, so will let you know how I find it running foobar2000.

http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-what-is-a-studio-master.aspx
http://www.linnrecords.com/catalogue.aspx?format=studio

Quite a lot of 'studio master' releases under Linn Records available to download. I'm assuming they are all 24/192 format which is great. Perfect test for the new DAC.     Have you tried a few of them and able to confirm the quality?

Edit: Realized I already have a few studio master downloads from Linn in my music server, so will remember to check them.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 01:57:28 PM by tuyen »

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 11:52:13 PM »
yes, that's really very interesting, the "influence" of the new Windows 8 onto sound solely within the digital area of 0-s and 1-s... who would have thought some years ago that a PC system program would have an influence onto our sound reproduction at all ? but it does, and quite heavily... the only explanation that I have is that the back ground mathematical algorithms are still not yet just exactly perfect... please keep me informed about your results, we might get that prepared for our "japanese" session...

and thanks for the link for Linn... yes, we have some of them... and we use especially one :

Linn Records - The Super Audio Surround Collection Volume 5 Sampler (2011) 24-192 [FLAC24]
Linn Records - The Super Audio Surround Collection Volume 5 Sampler (2011) 24-96 [FLAC24]
Linn Records - The Super Audio Surround Collection Volume 5 Sampler (2011) 16-44 [FLAC16]

this way we are able to have some sort of "reference" to compare with, i.e. the same highest end recorded masters from which all different lower resolution versions are derived... and the differences simply show quite majestically...

but, one has to read carefully, not all of these recordings are recorded 24-192, some are lower, for example 24-44 or 24-96, and all the lower ones have been upsampled (by Linn) to 24-192 and then published

I have compared several "low" 24 bit original recordings against their upsampled versions (all from Linn)... well, to be honest, I am not able to hear a difference between a 24-44 or an 24-96 to an upsampled 24-192, but my stomach tells me that I would like to prefer no altering in the source whatsoever...

as Louis XIV once said: "Gouverner moins, c'est gouverner mieux"... something like less governing is better governing... and that has come out true for HiFi as well...

« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 12:11:52 AM by rhlauranna »

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2012, 12:42:00 PM »
Hi Reinhard,

Windows 8 is good. Much more resource friendly.  Processes seem to run more fluidly and quicker. It loads up much faster too...

Sound wise, I'm not sure if it is an improvement, because too many things have changed in my system recently.   I can say it hasn't got any worse though.    I would say it is worthwhile upgrade to at least try..

Have tried a couple different output options now.

Bud Purvine 600:600 DAC buffer  transformers:


Dynamicap 2.0uF + 0.022uF hovland musicap:


Great sounding high res NOS DAC.   Look forward to ordering another 3 DAC boards + power supply kit from Doede.

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2012, 12:54:29 AM »
Tuyen would you like to borrow a duelund alexandraia 2.0uf and a vsf 2.2uf ???
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2012, 01:52:43 AM »
Tuyen would you like to borrow a duelund alexandraia 2.0uf and a vsf 2.2uf ???

tuyen, congratulations on your results, now you should finish your active multi-amping as quick as possible (cheapest way) to get the most out of it...

and yes, kajak12, this is indeed an absolutely superb idea of which I very very much would like to hear about the results in words and pix !!!!


Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2012, 03:32:59 AM »
Naaaa, think the transformers will beat any cap in that position!
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

tuyen

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2012, 02:15:40 PM »
The dac buffer transformer is pretty good. Sound is quite dynamic with possibly extra clarity over the cap output?  Cannot confirm...  brain/ears usually too tired to listen ultra critically nowadays..

Good thing is with the new preamp having a balanced input, I may be able to skip having a cap or transformer and run direct from DAC to input!   

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2012, 04:43:32 PM »
Too tired to listen critically?
Fair enough.  Leave it in for a week and see which one you prefer.  Quick changes unless done by some one else whilst you are listening are always difficult to call for small changes.
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2012, 08:57:08 PM »
Naaaa, think the transformers will beat any cap in that position!
V
Hmmm maybe i should sell my duelunds and get transformers for the kdac????
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2012, 11:40:49 PM »
Always worth trying and you could increase the output level to achieve better drive and lower output impedence.
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2012, 10:21:53 PM »
mmmmhhhhhh, wonderful, finally Doede has visualised the first test results... if you are interested you might have a look here:

http://www.dddac.com/dddac1794_test_specs.html

did anybody see at all results like this within a DAC whatsoever ?

well, to be able to "listen" to this, one might be able to transport these square through one's amplification chain without alteration, and then it's only a question of your speakers (and room)...

happy reading !