Author Topic: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192  (Read 174865 times)

Offline Jehuty

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #300 on: January 02, 2015, 09:30:29 PM »
Hey Kajak12,

My DAC might not be world best, however, one thing for certain it isn't as rolled top/bottom and only midrange emphases like your preference DAC taste!

Is his DAC preference still the KillerDAC? If it is, then you might want to read this: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/63511-computer-audio-and-tweaks/page-8#entry1116812

Have fun reading and happy listening  :)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline Chanh

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #301 on: January 02, 2015, 11:59:28 PM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 12:04:52 AM by Chanh »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #302 on: January 03, 2015, 12:13:42 AM »
Yes, absolutely it is all subjective.   

Chanh, you have to admire someone who gives you their genuine opinion.   Mario is a rare breed in our audiophile demographic, he'll tell you how he really hears it.   I wish there were more like him.

But still, it is only his subjective opinion based on what *he* likes.   It is no more correct than your own preferences, there is nothing wrong with having different tastes.

The engagement you speak of, its not simply midrange push, it runs deeper than that.   His system wasnt just the dac,  it was the whole package dialled in just the way he likes it.

You can get more details, cleaner sound and more extension in the Kdac,  by tuning it to your tastes. I've listed a whole bunch of changes to take the Kdac in that direction (in my kdac thread). 1 size certainly doesnt fit all.   But as i said, its not just about the dac.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 12:17:57 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #303 on: January 03, 2015, 01:25:58 AM »
I have listened to the KillerDAC many, many times and I must say that it is a very nice and even exceptional DAC, and most importantly sounds (very) musical. 

To my ears, I am not sure why people would think that it is not musical, and sadly people can get lost in measurements which as we all know does not usually describe the musicality of a component  :)

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #304 on: January 03, 2015, 01:43:54 AM »
Yes agreed, unfortunately there are those who are seduced by false in your face detail and zingy treble so go for different technologies which for me personally results in boredom setting in after 10 minutes.  Anyone who thinks it unmusical is seriously remiss and inexperienced wrt reproduction in the home IMV.

There are so many new technologies all competing for a slice of the action that the kings new clothes will continue forever.  Whilst I am on a semi rant, all those shirt salesman pimping up 16 bit digital by upsampling them to a larger bit bucket deserve stringing up.  Pono music comes to mind along with many others trying to trick the unweary  :-[
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline Jehuty

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #305 on: January 03, 2015, 02:00:48 AM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
Yeah, his system was crap so he sold it, I wonder how long it would take for him to get rid of it...  ::)
As ozmillsy said, you can tune the KillerDAC to your liking. How? Ask the Buddah, Rawl99, zenelectro, Lansche Plasma Guy, or any other masters who could help you on this forum. I am sure they're more than happy to help  :)

I have listened to the KillerDAC many, many times and I must say that it is a very nice and even exceptional DAC, and most importantly sounds (very) musical. 

To my ears, I am not sure why people would think that it is not musical, and sadly people can get lost in measurements which as we all know does not usually describe the musicality of a component  :)
I never care about the measurement, I did not even ask for it ever since I bought the KillerDAC in 2009 from Steve. It just happened that since many people subjectively say that the KillerDAC is rolled off, Rawl99 disproves it by presenting the actual measurements of the KillerDAC. I wish this would stop the rolled-off comment but as vitavoxdude pointed out, many are seduced by false in your face detail and zingy treble which people subjectively assume to be more extended. So, yeah choose our own poison  ;)

And no, I am not lost in the measurements because regardless of what the measurements say, the KillerDAC still gives me the most enjoyable musical experience for digital. Tape is better but not much music I usually listen to is available.

Now kids, let's get back on topic about the DDDAC, shall we?  :)
Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters.

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #306 on: January 03, 2015, 02:03:50 AM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
The most important starting point with any quality system is the front end, and that front end must have one attribute above all..... glorious midrange splendour....It's 70 Precent of the music and ultimately what matters. That is what the killerdac has in spades, but like all NOS dacs they suffer in the frequency extremes, it's the nature of the beast. So I say start with what matters most, and use some real skill to nullify these problems, for example with my DAC I use a superb TDA1541A S2 this particular chip has excellent extension. With my speakers I purposely allowed extra energy in the high frequency's to atone for the extension roll off. Tune the whole system accordingly because without that brilliant midrange you will not have musical satisfaction. Marios DAC is a high bred of old parts, mostly not used anymore, the newer DACs have good extension, Ultimately i have no doubt there are many dacs with better extension, but the date no digital device I have heard other than a killerdac really makes music.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:09:56 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #307 on: January 03, 2015, 02:45:20 AM »
... So I say start with what matters most, and use some real skill to nullify these problems, for example with my DAC I use a superb TDA1541A S2 this particular chip has excellent extension. With my speakers I purposely allowed extra energy in the high frequency's to atone for the extension roll off. Tune the whole system accordingly because without that brilliant midrange you will not have musical satisfaction. Marios DAC is a high bred of old parts, mostly not used anymore, the newer DACs have good extension, Ultimately i have no doubt there are many dacs with better extension, but to date no digital device I have heard other than a killerdac really makes music.
@stevenvalve, so your audio system has been tuned with extra high frequency energy and is very fast... that is interesting!

Yes, the midrange is important although for some it can be a midrange preference, for others it can be a midrange & bass preference, and for others it can be midrange & treble preference... it is nice to have it all, though, while maintaining musicality :)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:50:05 AM by PingPing »

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #308 on: January 03, 2015, 02:48:28 AM »
What is mean by really makes music, when you sit in front someone's system for the first time, in your mind like a typical audiophile you are ready to critically analyse, the music starts and you think, Wow this is different, it throws you at first, because its like nothing you have heard before, so gentle, warm, natural, flowing, organic, colourful, even beautiful, Nothing is in your face, no raging treble, no attacking detail, Soon you start to think, why doesn't this sound like all the other audio systems i have heard, then the truth suddenly dawns on you, You give yourself an uppercut, you stop analysing lay back in the chair and get lost in the splendour.     

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #309 on: January 03, 2015, 02:54:37 AM »
@stevenvalve, so your audio system has been tuned with extra high frequency energy and is very fast... that is interesting!

Yes, the midrange is important although for some it can be a midrange preference, for others it can be a midrange & bass preference, and for others it can be midrange & treble preference... it is nice to have it all, though, while maintaining musicality :)
Ping, go and listen to a unamplified small ensemble playing classical music..... its mainly all midrange. Frequency extension is an artificial audiophiles dream
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:56:08 AM by stevenvalve »

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #310 on: January 03, 2015, 02:58:24 AM »
stevenvalve, what do you believe that the tuning of the extra high frequency energy provided to the listening experience...

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #311 on: January 03, 2015, 03:03:29 AM »
The way that music decays from bass to midrange to treble is all about harmonic texture/timbre, isn't it  :)

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #312 on: January 03, 2015, 10:53:24 AM »
... so gentle, warm, natural, flowing, organic, colourful, even beautiful, Nothing is in your face, no raging treble, no attacking detail ... you stop analysing, lay back in the chair, and get lost in the splendour.     
stevenvalve, these characteristics need to be part of the musical payback experience, don't they... all good  :)

Offline stevenvalve

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #313 on: January 03, 2015, 04:56:56 PM »
Ping, the first thing I say when someone asks me to help with there system is take all your HiFi books like Stereophile, absolute sound, whatever, go to the rubbish bin and throw them where they belong, start afresh, relive your brain of all the propaganda they and other magazine toting audiophiles have instilled in the head, There is so much payola going on in that industry, these magazines live and die from selling advertising and they know manufactures need to sell product to pay for these adds, you can see the conflict of interest. In the last 40 years, Music reproduction has not improved, it's just changed, just different, In the last 5 years with computer audio, its reached an all time low. Audio Manufactures need change to sell you and me there latest and greatest, they claim low distortion, super high and low extension, incredible hyper resolution and detail firing at your brain, low bass rattling your windows. Its a shame for them that these attributes don't exist in the form they are offering. But if your a head bagger it does not really matter. 

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #314 on: January 03, 2015, 05:21:48 PM »
Quote
But if your a head bagger it does not really matter.

And there lies the answer  ;D, natural music without amplification should be the arbiter but alas, a lot of folk have never heard it and associate good reproduction with modern MP3 as a source and think it great.

The yardstick I apply is if it sounds fantastic with strong bass and treble can I listen to it all day or do I want to turn it down after 10 minutes as it has become annoying and leads to fatigue. 

There are very few systems I can have on all day and they usually employ valves and electrostatics, why?  Well because they do not unduly emphasise any frequency band and do not store energy in the mass of their transducers.

IMV PC audio or digital streamers are OK for background casual listening but this will inevitably change once the technology settles into something worthwhile and bearing in mind it took a quarter of a century for CD to blossom, it may be a while yet.

I do own a digital streamer and its replay of SSD encoded files is reasonable but not great
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #315 on: January 03, 2015, 05:22:18 PM »
... so gentle, warm, natural, flowing, organic, colourful, even beautiful, Nothing is in your face, no raging treble, no attacking detail ... you stop analysing, lay back in the chair, and get lost in the splendour.

... Audio Manufactures need change to sell you and me there latest and greatest, they claim low distortion, super high and low extension, incredible hyper resolution and detail firing at your brain, low bass rattling your windows. Its a shame for them that these attributes don't exist in the form they are offering. But if your a head banger it does not really matter.
stevenvalve, it is a shame, isn't it :)  The KillerDAC is a very nice and musical DAC, to my ears  :)

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #316 on: January 03, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD MY SETUP WITH MY POWER AMP!!!! ONLY WITH YOUR AMP AND PRE AND VITAVOX AMP AND FRANKS PRE..........

NOTHING LIKE I WAS RUNNING NO PRE AMP
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 10:28:41 PM by kajak12 »
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #317 on: January 03, 2015, 10:31:32 PM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
MORE EXTENDED DYNAMIC SOURCE MATERIAL WHEN IT COMES TO TIN PAN ALLEY YOU ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO MY SYSTEM QUESTION I ASK IS HOW CAN ONE MAKE A FORMED OPINION WITHOUT HAVING THE GOODS????????????????
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #318 on: January 03, 2015, 10:33:42 PM »
First and for most, there is no SOTA DAC or SOTA audio setup! :P :P :P yep even your KDAC! If it really was a KillerDAC, why did Mario get rid of it and shortchanged his sentimental values? ;D
Fyi, I listened to his ex-setup on four occasions. Mario's ex-KDAC setup was very easy on the ears and much engaging on selected Genre. Cello and Acoustic guitar sounded fantastic. Great imaging, transparency and very engaging (did I say that already?). Nonetheless, it performed less than satisfactory for a more extended dynamic source/materials. Micro-dynamic weren't there....., no tight, articulate impact bass.
Clearly, there is no one size fits all!

Just in case you haven't noticed, Mario and I are always pulling jokes on one another. My observations on his EX-setup will be dismissed by him and disagreed by others' KDAC users. Similarly, his assessments on others' setup might not be aglined by many! Isn't this all subjective anyway?
i SOLD MY DAC AND MY (((SYSTEM))) TO GET OUT OF AUDIO WHEN I RETURN I HOPE DDDAC LIKE YOU HAVE MATCHES IT JUST TO START FAR FROM IT
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Chanh

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #319 on: January 03, 2015, 11:37:41 PM »
Haha...!
There is no need for fouls language and the shouting Mario. Cool down! I thought You would be pleased that I just happened to be influenced by you from telling the truth. Why it is the norm for you to honestly critic others but is wrongful for others are to provide their realistic/honesty feedbacks wrt yours? What have I said were wrong or untruthful?

Yes, you kept saying your setup is SOTA and it's unfortunately I could never able to hear it simply because your SOTA Amps was kept getting faulty! I am sure when it was working, your setup was a SOTA. However, I can't just falsely deviate my realistic experience. Sorry!

Lastly, I never doubt your experience in audio! If any, I was advocate your ears set. Note, your perception/acceptance in audio is as good as anyone of us. Afterall, just like Ozmillsy said, this is all very subjective!

My appologies for this sidetrack. I think I better shut up from here!


« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 12:06:20 AM by Chanh »