Author Topic: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192  (Read 166529 times)

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #320 on: January 03, 2015, 11:44:16 PM »
Haha...!
There is no need for fouls language and the shouting Mario. Cool down! I thought You would be pleased that I just happened to be influenced by you from telling the truth. Why it is a norm for you to honestly critic others but is wrongful for others are to provide their realistic/honesty feedbacks wrt yours? What have I said were wrong or untruthful?

Yes, you kept saying your setup is SOTA and it's unfortunately I could never able to hear it simply because your SOTA Amps was kept getting faulty! I am sure when it was working, your setup was a SOTA. However, I can't just falsely deviate my realistic experience. Sorry!

My Sincere appologies for this sidetrack. I think I better shut up from here!
i was being polite as for sota amp being faulty more to do with faulty el34 and me using 5 watt bias resistors didn't help (on the beach owns it now) he has no problems but he does own 30k plus of audio research which he needs to sell.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #321 on: January 03, 2015, 11:46:54 PM »
Haha...!
There is no need for fouls language and the shouting Mario. Cool down! I thought You would be pleased that I just happened to be influenced by you from telling the truth. Why it is a norm for you to honestly critic others but is wrongful for others are to provide their realistic/honesty feedbacks wrt yours? What have I said were wrong or untruthful?

Yes, you kept saying your setup is SOTA and it's unfortunately I could never able to hear it simply because your SOTA Amps was kept getting faulty! I am sure when it was working, your setup was a SOTA. However, I can't just falsely deviate my realistic experience. Sorry!

My Sincere appologies for this sidetrack. I think I better shut up from here!
honestly critic others but is wrongful for others are to provide their realistic/honesty feedbacks wrt yours?   ask them what they think chan when they heard it??????????
if you get anywhere near me you will be lucky with a dddac   BRING IT ON CHAN
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #322 on: January 04, 2015, 12:01:15 AM »
Haha...!
There is no need for fouls language and the shouting Mario. Cool down! I thought You would be pleased that I just happened to be influenced by you from telling the truth. Why it is a norm for you to honestly critic others but is wrongful for others are to provide their realistic/honesty feedbacks wrt yours? What have I said were wrong or untruthful?

Yes, you kept saying your setup is SOTA and it's unfortunately I could never able to hear it simply because your SOTA Amps was kept getting faulty! I am sure when it was working, your setup was a SOTA. However, I can't just falsely deviate my realistic experience. Sorry!

My Sincere appologies for this sidetrack. I think I better shut up from here!
NEVER SHUT UP BRING IT ON I SAY
I had a kajak12 system on sna but it was deleted why? who knows maybe one day chan system (24 bit flac) will make the same grade (not on flac if you cant hear it you never will)
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #323 on: January 04, 2015, 01:24:16 AM »
Saturday evening and probably several beers and wines later and emotions can run high............................................sounds like some head banging going on here with inevitable outcomes.

Many things are said in the heat of the moment only to be regretted later.

I for one applaud and encourage Chanh for his determination efforts and exploits on his journey to where he feels is good for him, others may remark negatively all they like, its down to personal preferences and its not a pissing competition where coming second is an issue. 

Why do folk feel the need to offload on others, maybe a reflection of their own circumstances, who knows.

I feel uneasy when folk appear to have a crack at one another over Audio repro as it fails to serve any real purpose here on the KD forum and may put off others from contributing for fear of ridicule.

Let's try and keep any future outbursts to private emails so we don't all feel dragged down to watching a pointless slagging match from the sidelines.  Pretty please. Does this sound reasonable chaps?
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #324 on: January 04, 2015, 02:05:12 AM »
There is so much discussion about “subjective” and tailoring to “taste”…. And with what result?  I have to admit I have my problems to follow…

…when I listen to a thunder in nature, then I “hear” it, and to my ears there is much much more than "only" "glorious mid range splendour" in a system… that much more that I would like to say that it is the bass which defines basically the reproduced sound (not that boom-boom, you get me right…)… and everybody else “hears” the thunder as well, but everybody hears it his onw way…

…the other day I watched a brand new and very interesting scientific report in brain research on tele regarding the individual human detection of colours… that everybody “sees” the colors red and green and blue and so on in his own way, and that the different “detections” simply are “not congruent” with the impressions that others have with them… that everybody has his own "impression" of what a certain color is, and that there is only a "common agreement" of that what all these "different" "blue", "red" and "green" are... and well, my feelings grow that the same might be valid for the perceptions in HiFi…

…a thunder in nature is a thunder in nature, no matter “how” a single person perceives it… everybody has his personal detection… and I do not hear anyone saying that the perception of a thunder in nature is “subjective” although the thunder is perceived highestly “subjectively”, and I never ever have read (so far) of any wish to tweak and/or taylor to taste a natural thunder…

so everybody “should” be able to “compare” his own detection of a natural thunder with that one of the reproduction within his own system and the ones within other systems, and so everybody “should” be able to detect how far he is “away” (or close to) from his subjective detection in comparison to the natural one – in case that this is the “aim” one follows in HiFi… (there are many others of course…)

at least for me there is “no taste” and “no subjectivity” in natural sound - it is as is, but very much in reproduced sound… if I like it or not…

may it be that people are not that “used” to natural sound to come to “objective” results for their own reproductions?

… to get back to the theme of this thread I find it best when ambitious DIYers present the results that they found out best for themselves and present them so that everybody may take advantage for himself or not…

..so for example supersurfer lately came out with this:

#3691

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/224108-nos-192-24-dac-pcm1794-waveio-usb-input-370.html

“…For me it is more interesting to discover the beste price/improvement ratio for all these modifications.

[…]

In order of sound improvement and costs I would choose:
-direct balanced out (without capacitor)
- tantalum IV resistors
- silmic and oscon capacitors on the dac boards
-shunt regulators on the dac boards analog side
- unregulated choke power supply with a large transformer
-I2S connected raspberry pi or bbb
-acko S03 reclocker board ( or to be released botic cape from TP)
- shunt regulators on digital supplies

Pin 20 modification to be put in the above order somewhere, but I have not made this so can't judge the effect…”

I was very impressed with supersurfer's results so far last april here with us, and they are definitely well worth following and being checked out by others who are interested in…

...as I am not a technician I can only hope that these results may encourage you to push your own ambitions - with whatever DAC - further to come closer to the “natural” thunder within your system…


« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 05:40:23 AM by rhlauranna »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #325 on: January 04, 2015, 09:19:57 AM »
Hi Reinhard,

Happy New Year to you !

I'm not sure the thunder analogy is the best one, because in nature there are many different types of thunder sounds.

If reproducing thunder, how do you really know which type you are trying to reproduce?

Having meaningful references you consistently refer back to, are an important baseline when assessing changes to reproduction systems, IMHO. 

I do agree that good sounding bass is an important foundation.  I am yet to hit true bass nirvana on any system i have had. For me its not just about extension.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 09:49:13 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #326 on: January 04, 2015, 09:57:56 AM »
i was being polite as for sota amp being faulty more to do with faulty el34 and me using 5 watt bias resistors didn't help (on the beach owns it now) he has no problems but he does own 30k plus of audio research which he needs to sell.
Well the KillerDAC is a very nice and musical DAC, to my ears, and would appear to be very well priced, considering the price of the audio research :)
Why did you sell it and why did you want to get out of audio?

Hopefully the DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192 will eventually sound good, also :)

Offline kajak12

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #327 on: January 04, 2015, 12:31:29 PM »
Well the KillerDAC is a very nice and musical DAC, to my ears, and would appear to be very well priced, considering the price of the audio research :)
Why did you sell it and why did you want to get out of audio?

Hopefully the DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192 will eventually sound good, also :)
I would listen less then 2 hrs a week due to entertaining a 4 year old,some weeks never really turned it on,so i decided to sell it and build another system down the track that uses set amp and he speakers.
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #328 on: January 05, 2015, 03:24:42 AM »
Hi Reinhard,

Happy New Year to you !

I'm not sure the thunder analogy is the best one, because in nature there are many different types of thunder sounds.

If reproducing thunder, how do you really know which type you are trying to reproduce?

Having meaningful references you consistently refer back to, are an important baseline when assessing changes to reproduction systems, IMHO. 

I do agree that good sounding bass is an important foundation.  I am yet to hit true bass nirvana on any system i have had. For me its not just about extension.


yep, thank you...

we could discuss - and listen to of course - to "different" types of thunder sounds in nature and reproduction when the general platform is given to be able to reproduce such a thunder in general at all... right...

not to produce redundant infos you might want to read the following over at Stefano's where I have written exactly about that phenomenon some years ago - and which was/is the result of thirty years research in our bass horn development:

http://twogoodears.blogspot.de/2009/12/goto-from-japan-drivers-and-horns.html

from my experiences there are only two, three drivers (no paper cones) out there which are able at all to generate the illusion of listening to a real thunder regarding precision, naturality, velocity and sound pressure (very much depending on the calculation of the horn length and size - really not that easy... )

...and I do not mean a "normal" thunder in the far distance but a very close one, "dangerous" and "frightening", one of which you instinctively take cover... SG146LD, SG146LD4, and perhaps the ultra ALE bass drivers, if adjusted right are capable (although I have not yet heard this personally from ALE... but I know of people who claim that they are able to do so... perhaps Jean will help me out to fill my gaps to get to listen to some highest end ALE-systems in Japan in the (near) future...

so you might perhaps imagine what you might be missing when comparing such a "natural" thunder with the ones reproduced in your system...

there is still a lot to do for ambitious DIYers, and the "right" source is to start with (what you do not put in, you cannot get out), so get on...





« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:39:44 AM by rhlauranna »

Offline ozmillsy

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #329 on: January 05, 2015, 07:33:31 AM »
we could discuss - and listen to of course - to "different" types of thunder sounds in nature and reproduction when the general platform is given to be able to reproduce such a thunder in general at all... right...
if you mean; you recorded a thunderstorm, you heard for yourself the live thunder at the time it was recorded, you have a vivid memory of it, and then you used this recording to playback and baseline your reproduction system against your own memory of the actual event - if that is what you meant, then perhaps yes, this could be done.

Close up thunder, where the lightning flash and the snap/bang of the thunder happens simultaneous, is pretty loud,   i imagine it would be very easy for the recording to clip.

Lets say you achieved your goal and put together a system that can deliver a real thunder strike experience.   Does this automatically translate into musical bass?   To achieve exceĺlence for a certain type of sound (or style of music), often means compromises for other types of sounds. I am not saying this is the case here, i am just wondering how the thunderstrike baseline correlates to actual music?

What i seek in bass, is real timbre, texture and vibrancy (i dont yearn for window rattling slam).  Alot of modern woofers/subs dont deliver the type of bass i seek.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:46:02 AM by ozmillsy »
It's all about the music,, not the equipment.

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #330 on: January 05, 2015, 10:25:50 AM »
... we could discuss - and listen to of course - to "different" types of thunder sounds in nature and reproduction when the general platform is given to be able to reproduce such a thunder in general at all... right...

not to produce redundant infos you might want to read the following over at Stefano's where I have written exactly about that phenomenon some years ago - and which was/is the result of thirty years research in our bass horn development: http://twogoodears.blogspot.de/2009/12/goto-from-japan-drivers-and-horns.html

Reinhard, very, very impressive looking horns, wow  :)

Reinhard, is Stefano in Japan.   I thought that he was in Italy!, although your blog indicates Germany  :)

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #331 on: January 05, 2015, 10:34:06 AM »
Mmmhhh, for us it’s about reproduction of physical frequencies in general, not only “music”… music is only a certain part of the frequency range, isn’t it…

When we started with our bass horns more than 30 years ago we came across a picture from the second world war, from Japan, showing the emperor Hirohito with his marshall-rod, inspecting his “Matsush!ta injection speakers”, which were signed “not for indoor use”, with his highest general…

…imagine a picture of infinite war “material” in the back ground, weapons as far as the eye can see, and in front “killing speakers”, those Matsush!tas…. they were constructed mobile, on 2 m high wheels, and some 8 – 10 meters high overall, the mouth of the horns in the direction like Jimi Hendrix when kissing the sky at 11:30 hours…. They were constructed to “reproduce” precisely 7 cycles, the human body’s own frequency, which, when running, destroyed the enemies bodies in some distance like a glass that splits… (I have that picture somewhere but cannot find it at the moment...)

or take a military battalion that marches in step over a bridge with one till two cyles, matching the bridge’s own frequency and bringing it to a breakdown… music? Presumably not, but frequencies…

…not that we today are into the development of such weapons, but in reproduction of frequencies, and of course we make use of a sine generator if need be (to be able to “rely” on a neutral signal)… and right from the beginning we tested our developments not only by listening (we always do that) but as well with measurements…

… and this in the long run led to an achievement, to a solution where it does no longer matter what type of sound and/or style of music at what (realistic) loudness is being played… there is no need for making compromises… with no frequency (focused mostly of course on the directly audible ones…)

…and we know of quite a lot of people who claim to be in need for several different systems, one for jazz, another for classical, and another for pop, and so on… for me it is the same with pick-ups, as good as single ones may be, those who are into vinyl hardly ever are content with only one pickup…

Two years ago we had Prof. Suzuki from Japan here with us. He is chief medicine of a hospital in Tokyo with 500 beds and six floors… and the sixths floor is his HiFi- paradise, with some ten different room with some 60 square meters each, and systems with really all that money can buy… after 2 million Euros counting I gave up calculating… Klangfilm, Western Electric, Goto, Ale…. all what one can imagine…. well after some 6 or 7 hours in the sweet spot of Klaus’s system he said, I told already elsewhere: “We are not able to build this in Japan!”

So, to come back down to earth and to your search for a bass that suits you, you might want to have a listen to Tuyen’s horns with Goto SG38WN…. Yes, these are paper cones, but from my point of view you presumably come closest to what you are looking for (and still rather affordable)….

I remember my own situation, the bass was that part in reproduction that nerved me the most nearly my whole HiFi-life… but this is, at least for me, history for some ten years…

go, have a listen, and then tell me that you don't need them...

« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:50:12 AM by rhlauranna »

Offline Chanh

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #332 on: January 05, 2015, 10:43:56 AM »

I for one applaud and encourage Chanh for his determination efforts and exploits on his journey to where he feels is good for him, others may remark negatively all they like, its down to personal preferences and its not a pissing competition where coming second is an issue. 
Hi Steve,

Many thanks for the encouragement, both your and Mario's feedbacks post every catchup at my Shed were nothing but constructive and valued.  ;) Though Mario's wording were quiet often too blank and without any principle justifications made it harder to digest sometimes. Aside that, Mario is a very helpful and kind hearted individual that urgently need assistance in written communication.   ::)

I for one, never set out to compete this nonsense, rather simply enjoying audio as a form of therapy. I enyoy pushing the design to its limits and the stimulation it's providing to my brain cells when things turn lemon or not working as anticipated. :D

DDDAC is still a working progress, and you are always welcome back whenever you can find time!

Chanh

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #333 on: January 05, 2015, 10:44:29 AM »
Reinhard, very, very impressive looking horns, wow  :)

Reinhard, is Stefano in Japan.   I thought that he was in Italy!, although your blog indicates Germany  :)

you are right, Stefano is in Italy, not in Japan, although he has already visited the most famous producers over there, like ALE and Goto and so on.... he is regularly participent of our listening tests here in Germany close to Cologne... and having a Goto-system on his own... you might want to read him... search for "Goto" on his site...

 

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #334 on: January 05, 2015, 11:02:38 AM »
Reinhard, what are your thoughts of Chanh's DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192  :)

Chanh, you can't stop now, so you need to keep going, and IMV/IME/IMO you can use the KDAC as a reference  :)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 11:20:13 AM by PingPing »

Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #335 on: January 05, 2015, 11:39:08 AM »
HI Chanh ;)

Yes don't stop in your development, the DAC has promise, it just needs tinkering, patience and time/money to get it to where it will match the Conrad Johnson and Carver as well as the speakers , getting therm all in harmony is quite a big task.  Tuyen has been through a myriad of parts and equipment to try and find his joy and is still going.  We are not so lucky as others in assembling a system and then just accepting it as being good enough, the fun is in the planning and experimenting but so is the frustration.  Mario does have his heart in the right place as we know but shows very little tolerance of anything that is not exceptional in his view which we can either accept and use to spur us on to bigger and better things or negatively as a smite, the choice is ours and ours alone.

One of the things I have learnt is you can spend 5K on decent parts but if you start with a basic machine or design, it never ends up looking like a finished product worth 5K, better to start with a 5K product in the first place and work on that.  I would love to end up with a great looking as well as great sounding spread, but alas my pockets are not deep enough currently and the bling of a gyro deck has long faded into then annuals of history.

DIY can look pretty if you have the woodworking skills of Erik or Flemo but alas most of us do not.  Just as well the majority of my stuff is outside out of eyesight from the Missus in the man shed! :)
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline PingPing

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #336 on: January 05, 2015, 12:46:24 PM »
... Yes don't stop in your development, the DAC has promise, it just needs tinkering, patience and time/money to get it to where it will match the Conrad Johnson and Carver... /font]
vitavoxdude, what do you find beneficial with the Conrad Johnson and Carver over the KDAC  :)

Offline Chanh

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #337 on: January 05, 2015, 12:49:17 PM »
@Steve,
Last I checked, Pete (flemo) is very willing with his assistance. I have deferred the offer still this DDDAC deems satisfactory to my ears. Still working on that Natureness to my taste.  8)

@Ping, cheers for the input! Actually, I have had the less optimal than Mario's KDAC here over the extended period during my DAC searching.  ;)






Offline vitavoxdude

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #338 on: January 05, 2015, 04:20:27 PM »
Chanh

Quote
vitavoxdude, what do you find beneficial with the Conrad Johnson and Carver over the KDAC 

Errr that was missing the point, what I was suggesting is the synergy between the whole system is the important thing not how one single component performs.  No reference to the KDAC what so ever.

If a direct comparison was made between a CD94 transport and Mario's old DAC compared to your DDDac fed from a RPi then differences could be heard.  Whether those differences would tip the favour either way is purely down to the listeners preferences as both 'devices' have their own way of doing things, these differences will either work with or work against the rest of the replay chain, this is what I was referring to, hopefully this clarifies.
[/font][/font]
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline rhlauranna

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Re: DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192
« Reply #339 on: January 05, 2015, 10:03:37 PM »
Reinhard, what are your thoughts of Chanh's DDDAC 1794-NOS 24-192  :)

...this is one of the hottest DDDAC1794s out there around the globe... and I told already: 50% of the sound is generated by the DAC itself, and the other 50% by the corresponding power supply... I wouldn't have believed if not heard myself what a trap "power supply" is to not be able to get the most out of the DAC...

just the other day I talked to Jean, and we have started to discuss a potential meeting and testing of these hottest DDDAC1794 in Europe in Paris in summer... during the last year there have been made so many detailed and single progresses, it is that much that one easily looses sight, and I think time has come to check this all out side by side...

...and as a location I proposed Paris because here are some very ambitious people with different WE-systems, the all self built system of Prof. Shih, mono-systems and others...

and yes, I admit, I very much would like to have the DAC from Chanh within this test...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 06:32:35 AM by rhlauranna »