Author Topic: The role of a transport  (Read 9956 times)

Drizt

  • Guest
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2011, 08:37:52 AM »
As longs as it can serve up the 'bits' to the DAC accurately and the DAC can accurately clock the samples, then the transport 'should' have no impact on the sound quality.  I have read scientific studies that state that 250ms is the threshold of audibility with regards to jitter.

You do realize that 250ms is ONE QUARTER OF A SECOND don't you. If your source was set up to pause for 250ms every second and you can't hear it, you must be pretty deaf.

Lol at the typo . 250ns

Offline davewantsmoore

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Liked: 0
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2011, 12:42:21 PM »
As longs as it can serve up the 'bits' to the DAC accurately and the DAC can accurately clock the samples.

If you are attempting to assert that the above statement is the null-hypothesis when evaluating at digital transports..... Then you are absolutely right, congratulations !!!

..... However, I believe you totally underestimate the enormity of the task you have identified.



Consider SPDIF.   The waveform of SPDIF has a bandwidth of 30 MHz

Unless your transport is approaching perfect, then SPDIF waves on a scope are nothing like square .... This introduces jitter/distortion in the receiver and DAC chip.


It's all very well to run some type of "bit perfect" test, using many available methods .... and decide that "bits in = bits out" and everything is dandy  .....   but these tests are only tell you the output data is the same as the source data while it's sitting still  .... it says nothing about the time domain.

It is this difference in the time domain, that introduces the distortion in the analog output of a DAC.


As to whether this distortion is audible, it's going to be very system dependant, as it can easily be masked by other things in the playback system.



In short:   The laws of physics are very clear that any less than perfect timing of bits will make distortion.  There are very clear oscilloscope measurements (google) showing even the most perfect transports in existence not being 100% perfect square waves.


So rather than trying to arrange blind testing to prove the laws of physics wrong ... why don't you stick to a much simpler question   "is it audible in playback system X?"

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 2
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2011, 03:25:22 AM »
I think a transport is incredibly underestimated...based on "all it has to do ..blah blah blah"

First I came to that conclusion buying commercial transports in order to upgrade (leaving the dac alone)

Those were major upgrades to my ears...first the philips 850 (iirc) then the marantz 83 (iirc)
then a accuphase 63 (iirc) and finally a Wadia 23...

To take the experience further...during the building of a transport I heard major chances implementing different components...

Believe it or not maybe I find a good transport even more important then a top-of-the-bill dac
(oops wrong forum  ;D)...

Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2445
  • Liked: 67
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2011, 11:00:01 AM »

Believe it or not maybe I find a good transport even more important then a top-of-the-bill dac
(oops wrong forum  ;D)...
what came first a chicken (transport) or the egg (dac)
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 2
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2011, 05:44:29 PM »
How true  ;D

I guess in the end each and every component is of the same importance, since implementing a single new component is able to dramatically change your sound.

Last week we introduced new 3  pre-amps (Lua-Jadis-Aitos) at a friend in his set so he could decide which one to buy....the effect was stunning... :o

zjaakco

  • Guest
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2012, 12:00:27 AM »
Hi all
Hi erik,
 
I have the same opinion as you about a transport.
Its more importend tham a dac, because its the source of reproduction.

regards

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 2
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2013, 06:28:51 AM »
Hi guys

Again I cannot even begin trying to emphasize the importance of a good transport...
I wonder who bought the boombox JVC and made a start....it is bye bye Wadia Mark Levinson Cec Accuphase and pretty much all the commercial ones...

At the moment I am busy building one for my friend and EVERY modification is from noticable to jaw dropping.

But do not take my word for it...buy one yourself and make a start..

In America they have on the DIY the shigaclone...that will give you a flying start...but please take it further than Peter Daniel does...it is worth it....besides when you have a killer dac you need a killer transport  8)

Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2445
  • Liked: 67
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2013, 12:46:26 AM »
Hi guys

Again I cannot even begin trying to emphasize the importance of a good transport...
I wonder who bought the boombox JVC and made a start....it is bye bye Wadia Mark Levinson Cec Accuphase and pretty much all the commercial ones...

At the moment I am busy building one for my friend and EVERY modification is from noticable to jaw dropping.

But do not take my word for it...buy one yourself and make a start..

In America they have on the DIY the shigaclone...that will give you a flying start...but please take it further than Peter Daniel does...it is worth it....besides when you have a killer dac you need a killer transport  8)
but i have a killer transport its a marantz cd94 with zen clock
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 2
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2013, 05:03:21 AM »
Hahahaha...prize yourself lucky then.....so you know first hand what a shocker it is when visitors bring another transport into your setup......even the expensive names.....   8)

I really do believe that a cdplayer (transport and dac) are together the most important component in order to enjoy music....and of those two the transport upfront.

Do not ask me that next year....when my pre amp is "taken care off"  :P 8)

Offline rhlauranna

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
  • Liked: 153
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2013, 03:29:54 AM »
Hahahaha...prize yourself lucky then.....so you know first hand what a shocker it is when visitors bring another transport into your setup......even the expensive names.....   8)

I really do believe that a cdplayer (transport and dac) are together the most important component in order to enjoy music....and of those two the transport upfront.

Do not ask me that next year....when my pre amp is "taken care off"  :P 8)

Hi Erik,

nice to read you again...

well, let me add: you should listen to PC harddrive SSD via DAC, this is simply a quantum leap above traditional CDplayer transport...

if you would like to, just tell me...


Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 2
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2013, 04:31:16 AM »
No because if you are right (and you probably are) you take away a lot of fun for me including 3000 compactdiscs  ;D

Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2445
  • Liked: 67
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: The role of a transport
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2013, 09:22:22 PM »
Hahahaha...prize yourself lucky then.....so you know first hand what a shocker it is when visitors bring another transport into your setup......even the expensive names.....   8)

I really do believe that a cdplayer (transport and dac) are together the most important component in order to enjoy music....and of those two the transport upfront.

Do not ask me that next year....when my pre amp is "taken care off"  :P 8)

Hi Erik,

nice to read you again...

well, let me add: you should listen to PC harddrive SSD via DAC, this is simply a quantum leap above traditional CDplayer transport...

if you would like to, just tell me...


funny you say that but so far its not the case for some of us...............
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time