Author Topic: jensen electrolitics  (Read 23358 times)

Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2468
  • Liked: 78
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2010, 09:43:08 PM »
oval56 silver does not have a higher frequency responce then copper.it actually produces a distortion in the higher frequency range in systems that are able to reveal it,it ads air and artificialness to the higher frequency range which some people cant hear it but others can.


Its not the silver that produce's the distortion its already in the curcuit ,its just showing up the circuit .

Cheers
if that is what you think then i cant argue their must be  a lot of bad circuits in the world besides yours.
i must have crap circuits in my system
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 3
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2011, 09:03:12 PM »
Hi

I know a bit late but...I only want to share...

I find the attitude towards silver a bit to outspoken....

My experience is that the different kinds of silver is giving different results....(compare eg. Kondo Silver to Parts Connection Silver...)

What I lately find even more important than the use of silver versus copper is the sheathmaterial.....

Using silver eg with a cotton sheath results in no glare what so ever....pvc as sheath (dielectrum) I hardly use anymore
my clear favorite is teflon/rubber or cotton (where I can safely use)...

Mind you the copper of Duelund is probably bettering the silver of AudioNote on the basis that it uses natural dielectrum
(cotton, silk, oil etc)......in the end...the silver of Duelund with the use of those naturals is probably the best of the best these days.(but almost non-affordable to us DIY guys)

Offline kajak12

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2468
  • Liked: 78
    • http://killerdac.com/forum/index.php
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2011, 12:34:29 AM »
Hi

I know a bit late but...I only want to share...

I find the attitude towards silver a bit to outspoken....

My experience is that the different kinds of silver is giving different results....(compare eg. Kondo Silver to Parts Connection Silver...)

What I lately find even more important than the use of silver versus copper is the sheathmaterial.....

Using silver eg with a cotton sheath results in no glare what so ever....pvc as sheath (dielectrum) I hardly use anymore
my clear favorite is teflon/rubber or cotton (where I can safely use)...

Mind you the copper of Duelund is probably bettering the silver of AudioNote on the basis that it uses natural dielectrum
(cotton, silk, oil etc)......in the end...the silver of Duelund with the use of those naturals is probably the best of the best these days.(but almost non-affordable to us DIY guys)
silver from my experience works on certain systems at the end of the day i tune my system to work with copper
still discovering the link between electronics and audio reproduction.so much to learn and so little time

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 3
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2011, 12:59:55 AM »
I understand in the end it is all a matter of taste...

The only thing I lately am finding out is my wrong judgements towards some materials...eg I disliked silver (but in fact it was based on silver plated experiences) myself but experienced the differeces....
I myself could not hear more weight in music by using thicker silver....
I also experienced differences in silver (Mundorf versus "Others")

Copper is under-estimated I must agree that in High-End scenes silver and gold have a more "expensive" ringing to it (sometimes literally..hahahahha)

tuyen

  • Guest
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2011, 05:26:10 PM »
These Jensens aren't electrolytics but they seem to be quite rare!  Might work quite nicely in the power supply stage of your dac/pre/amp ;)

http://shop.ebay.com.au/holy-gral/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562







« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 05:28:21 PM by tuyen »

Offline rawl99

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Liked: 2
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2011, 11:18:28 PM »
Hi

I know a bit late but...I only want to share...

I find the attitude towards silver a bit to outspoken....

My experience is that the different kinds of silver is giving different results....(compare eg. Kondo Silver to Parts Connection Silver...)

What I lately find even more important than the use of silver versus copper is the sheathmaterial.....

Using silver eg with a cotton sheath results in no glare what so ever....pvc as sheath (dielectrum) I hardly use anymore
my clear favorite is teflon/rubber or cotton (where I can safely use)...

Mind you the copper of Duelund is probably bettering the silver of AudioNote on the basis that it uses natural dielectrum
(cotton, silk, oil etc)......in the end...the silver of Duelund with the use of those naturals is probably the best of the best these days.(but almost non-affordable to us DIY guys)

Erik,

Finally somebody talking some sense.  The dielectric material used has at least as much effect on the sonics of a cable as the material itself.  The other highly relevant factor is the geometry of the material eg flat ribbon compared with circular, or square cross section.

If copper rolls off the frequency response as suggested earlier then how is it possible that we can get 250MHz down a lump of cat5 if we cannot get 20kHz down a piece of copper for an audio interconnect????

Also as you point out, the quality and crystalline structure of the copper is of significance.  Then we get to the termination process used, the type of plugs, the solder used (if soldered) etc etc.

How do we ever achieve good sounding cables???????????????

I know I have built quite a number of prototypes with each one incorporating experiences from the previous ones and mostly inching along in the direction of better.  It's a fun game trying to eek the most out of a cable (power, i/c, speaker) but rather time consuming.  A good bit of left-of-centre thinking really does not go astray.  Quite a number of successful experiments that I have tried have not been borne from normal engineering theory.

Cheers

Rawl

Offline Erik van Voorst

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Liked: 3
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2011, 03:28:16 AM »
Thanks, I am just buggering along ...my own way....though even after all those years still full of surprises in this hobby.... :D

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Liked: 71
  • Caring and sharing
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2011, 02:15:11 PM »
so silver has more of a frequency responce then copper according to oval56.in that case their must be a lot of frequency responce lacking system in the world that dont use silver wire.
very intresting observation malcom.
my hearing must be bad if i use copper and find it not rolled off like you then ::)
Just to chip in as it were, Silver cables IMV (SNA) do indeed bring higher levels of HF to a sound producing system. My experience is properly implemented Ag connections can add additional fine detail and produce a brighter lit HF response.  A system wide approach must always be taken as an already bright / forward sounding system such as NS1000  driven by transistors with a bright CD player can produce a wearing experience (I own Yamaha NS1000's as well as many other speakers so can comment on such)  Copper cables (good ones) are easier to implement than Silver ones.  Van der Hul carbon cables are fantastic too if you can tolerate the resistance and these seem to straddle the gap between a natural rhythmic sound and fine filigree detail.  I personally recommend the UK Audio synthesis blue interconnects as they 'do it for me' in many systems I try them in usually bringing additional detail and naturalness the party, these being available by the metre makes them an absolute bargain compared with HiFi boutique prices, just add bullet plugs!  ( see the blatant plug below....lol) It's a shame the VDH cables are ouch expensive for some one running 4 way actives.  VDH the first's ultimates that is, prices below.

The FIRST ® Ultimate, stereo pair, fitted with gold plated RCA connectors
  0.6 meter € 228.50
  0.8 meter € 272.25
  1.0 meter € 316.00
  1.2 meter € 360.00
  1.5 meter € 425.25


This from the Audio Synthesis web site:
 
Silver is the whitest of all metals – its elemental symbol is Ag, argentum – Latin for white and shining. More significantly for audio it exhibits the highest electrical and highest thermal conductivity of any known metal. Silver, unlike copper, does not readily oxidise so does not produce a high resistance, poor conducting, oxide layer on its surface. Instead, when exposed to the atmosphere, it forms a very low resistance thin layer of sulphide produced by a reaction with the sulphur pollutants present in the air. Whether these properties are of significance to the audio performance is not certain, but the life-like transparency, solidity of the image and ease of communication when using such pure silver cables becomes clear upon auditioning.

SilverBlue SQ – Pure Solid Silver Interconnect Cable
SilverBlue SQ (StarQuad) combines the highest quality and most effective conductors and insulators with a geometry chosen by iterative subjective evaluation to produce an analogue interconnect with a performance second to none.

This new SQ version of SilverBlue improves upon the original twin-screened SilverBlue by making four significant changes to the earlier design. These are:

SilverBlue SQ increases the number of signal carrying pure silver conductors from 2 to 4 to double the effective cross-sectional area whilst maintaining individual conductor isolation using thin micro-porous Teflon around each silver strand. We use porous Teflon to greatly attenuate the effect the insulator has upon the audio generated fields surrounding the silver conductors. Due to a phenomenon known as ‘dielectric absorption’ the insulator immediately surrounding the signal conductors absorbs and releases energy that modulates the audio signal, resulting in poor transparency and a confused homogeneous sound lacking in instrumental separation.

The four individually insulated conductors are configured in a quadrilateral star arrangement with diagonally opposite conductors commoned during termination. This greatly attenuates any induced radio frequency interference by cancelling opposite fields induced into the audio conductors due to the symmetry and close proximity of the hot and cold signals in the star geometry. By its very symmetry and natural rejection of external interference, SilverBlue SQ is a perfect contender for use in high quality balanced XLR interfaces.

The third design change from the original SilverBlue is in the size and position of the tightly-knit, woven silver-plated copper braid. In SilverBlue SQ a higher percentage of coverage has been achieved to further protect the signal carrying conductors from outside interference. Most significantly the braid has been increased in diameter and spaced away from the silver conductors, using layers of micro-porous Teflon, thus ensuring that any interference induced into the screen cannot be induced into the silver audio carrying conductors.

Finally, in place of the PVC outer jacket surrounding the original SilverBlue we have chosen a direct derivative of PTFE offering the same low dielectric constant of 2.1 with an attractive but durable, high gloss finish. Outside diameter is 7.25mm maximum, colour Royal Blue.

SilverBlue SQ is one of the highest resolution audio interconnects available regardless of price and will especially excel when used with minimal electronics and in natural sounding systems.

All finished interconnects are silver soldered and terminated either in the precision-machined German WBT connectors or the Swiss manufactured Neutrik XLRs for balanced system use.

SilverBlue Triax is one of the most revealing digital audio or video interconnects available regardless of price and offers a state of the art velocity of propagation in the region of 85% of the speed of light, with an attenuation at 100MHz of <0.1dB/m. It is our choice of coaxial interconnect for use between the TRANSCEND CD Transport and the DAX series of award winning digital to analogue converters.

 
Sorry for the commertials but it aides making spending decisions.


Martin S has used magnet wire enamel coated and these are no slouch either but  do lack some of the finer detail and extended higher frequencies.  The contumacious issue here seems to be if you can hear the additional HF and detail or not.  In my case I can easily and I am an old un who's hearing tapers off at HF > 12Khz so it's affecting the sound spectrum before this age induced roll off IMV.  Please remember the additive filtering mechanisms at play here and the ability to reject airborne noise and RF rubbish.
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.

Offline vitavoxdude

  • Beauty is in the ear of the beholder
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Liked: 71
  • Caring and sharing
Re: jensen electrolitics
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 04:15:31 PM »
Its more than just weight and just like caps theres difference's in silver and mix's .I have some silver with 10% gold added ,now thats a different beast again .

Cheers
can you answer a simple question does a havier gauge add more weight to the sound?
unless you dont know the answer
I can answer this one, yes it does, (IMV-SNA)I directly compared with the same kit two identical lengths of cables, one made of a heavier gauge and it just sounded bigger?? Obviously the resistance was lower but it was the same dielectric and the same silver.  Maybe the output impedance of the CD and Pre were not as able to drive the thinner cable as well, all very strange and annoying as heavier gauge silver obviously costs more.  As we are talking fractions of a volt to 2 volts from the CD player I was hoping to save some money but alas.................. :(
V
We all like different things so lets all agree to disagree and if any common ground is found then worship it.  Mine is the KD hence being present on this forum.